Twitter beef between incoming Michigan and OSU OL recruits
We all love a spicy offseason drama. Seems like this one started with an On3 recruiting guy asking which four-man OL class is better between Michigan and OSU. Ian Moore (2024 4* OL from Indiana) responded thusly:
Cmon now. Hate to start beef but two of those dudes are salty that they didn’t get OSU offers and the other two just didn’t get them. I’ve been to camps with everybody on that list except Marc (Marc’s a dog though) and the Blake kid and I can tell you the Bucks are on top https://t.co/U4cwtWy081
— Ian Moore (@IanMoore2024) April 19, 2023
Luke Hamilton and Ben Roebuck responded in kind...
Lemme sit back and grab some popcorn because this is comical😂😂. If you take rankings out the picture @marcnavejr is the best o line commit y’all got. @NateBige let’s get the “you didn’t even have an offer, they didn’t even want you” comments going https://t.co/kDFPsfNLK5
— Luke Ha〽️ilton (@Hammy07422) April 19, 2023
Always comes down to not having that offer. Michigan’s got the better offensive line and better coaches. Seems like I wasn’t missing out on much… Go blue〽️ https://t.co/FwISSFoutN
— Ben Roebuck (@Benroebuck75) April 19, 2023
Offers or not, one O-line has two straight Joe Moore awards and absolutely manhandled the other team two years in a row. The other is Ohio State.
One correction - if Davis is the number 1 player 4 years from now, or if Davis is no longer even in football 4 years down the road, that also does not mean that Holland or Webb are right or wrong. You can have the number 1 recruit, all world high school player who deserves to be the number 1 kid, and coaches/programs can actually kill him. (or vice-versa). Bad usage, bad schemes, no development, horrible S&C, maybe coach and/or assistant doesnt get along with him etc... How a kid ends up after 4 years does not have anything to do with how good he is right now.
April 19th, 2023 at 10:37 PM ^
Yeah, to an extent that's true. But I think that kind of lets people off the hook. There are certainly unexpected developments (injuries, confidence, coaching changes, etc.) that can wildly swing a career.But if a guy's a 5-star recruit who does zilch in college, I'm inclined to lean toward the idea that it was a missed evaluation in most cases.
For example, Ryan Leaf being drafted to the NFL so high was a mistake. He didn't deserve to be picked so high. Yes, he was a good physical prospect, but he didn't have the mentality to succeed. I think that's a missed evaluation, not just an "Aw shucks, he was deserving of the #2 pick but it just didn't work out."
Interesting way to look at at. And all before he has played even a practice down in
college.
So if Davis were to crash and burn Holland would be wrong as well.
This seems like way too rational of a comment. Will have to ponder!
I do not understand your point here. Each and every one of us are "saddled" with a personal bias. Sam and EJ have different jobs. Sam is mostly an entertainer and EJ is mostly a talent evaluator. EJ is not a BSer-straight up calls it how he sees it. Sam-a great talker/conversationalist. They play different roles in the Michigan recruiting world.
Putting forward an evaluation that attempts to predict how a young HS QB will project to the next level is like wandering through a minefield. Jadyn is a fantastic young man-high character, very bright and an exceptional leader. I am pretty sure that EJ's hesitation with Jadyn revolves around whether or not his elite intangibles can mitigate his less than elite physical tools.
EJ is not a “talent evaluator.” He is a journalist whose niche is basically interviewing high school kids.
he has no scouting experience or resume other than he attends a lot of high school football games. The average reader of this site is the same level of talent evaluator.
The spat is pretty stupid IMO and I have a hard time blaming EJ for it. Sure he takes a different approach than Sam but I don't fault him for thst.
I don't think it as much WHAT EJ is saying. It is more how he is reacting to the responses and how he acts in general. A lot of this is simply being young IMO but he also seems to be the type of personality that doesn't breed middling opinions. i.e there ND fans that still seek out his live chats to troll him when he left for the M job 2+ (?) years ago.
I don't think EJ is getting the rap he is solely on the Davis stuff, but rather a lot of things adding up.
At least to me, he comes off like he thinks only his evals are right, and the way he responds to people and criticism on their board is odd
I watched video on most of the QB recruits and the kid from PA. named Stone . . . I saw that early on he was being recruited by us but haven't heard much of anything lately. Only the two guys you mentioned, Boley and McIntyre. Have we given up on Stone or is he not interested in us? . . . He didn't look as good as Bryce but the kid really looked impressive. I would have ranked him 2nd to Underwood (as far as guys we were recruiting) IMO. I must admit the kid McIntyre is a great looking kid and would be probably be #1 in that category.
Who TF is EJ Holland?
Who TF is Mel Kiper Junior?
The dude with the hair.
Woo boy
It is interesting that the high school kids are more mature than these two.
I say this in a lot of recruiting threads but it still baffles me that grown people get paid for following around high school kids and asking where they are going to go to college. Not only that, but here we have grown people arguing about who is better at following around high school kids.
I say this in a lot of recruiting threads but it still baffles me that grown people get paid for following around high school kids and asking where they are going to go to college. Not only that, but here we have grown people arguing about who is better at following around high school kids.
When you say this in a lot of recruiting threads, are people like "hey great observation! I don't know why this cottage industry has existed for the last 35+ years/multiple versions of these websites for the past 25." Or is it more "......"
But sure, I'll bite... Here's as best as I can figure. Ultimately, grown people are paid for this because other grown people (and some not grown people but who have access to their mom's credit cards) are willing to to pay them. Basically, as long as there's a demand for the service, there will be people willing to provide a supply (this is all provided that the two parties can come to an agreement on the price).
Now, as for why two grown people would argue at who's better at providing a service? Well, that's basically just human nature.
Hopefully this helps!
I think its equally interesting that some of these slobs or pencil knecks never played a sport, eat doritos and coke while streaming Hoosiers ad naseum in their moms basement, but are the 'analysts'/'experts' breaking down film and telling us how good or bad these kids are.
LOL!!!
Sam and EJ hate each other.
IMO, both of them are INCREDIBLY annoying. A novel...
- Sam: self-promoting, established, fanboy, know-it-all with deep connections and he has the best relationship with the Davis family and it's not close. And that includes Sam Webb's from other schools. Is there some positive bias when he speaks of Jadyn and his father? Probably. Sam's so obsessed with his brand and always being the smartest guy in the room - for years his followers have "drank the kool-aid" and he speaks to everyone and carries himself as if it actually means something. It's funny he calls EJ a "clout-chas(er)," because that is exactly what Sam was for most of his career...now he's established himself and teasing someone for doing the same thing. In many ways, EJ is like baby Sam.
- EJ: I've never seen someone in his role who is more OBSESSED with themself as EJ Holland is with himself. He thinks he's earned the right to be that way because he puts in the work. By the work, he means going to 7-on-7 camps that the Sam Webb's wouldn't dare attend - EJ looooves the 7-on-7 circuit. Or stalking kids on social media and damn near begging to be their primary contact. It's awesome that he's on the road more than any Michigan "insider" (honestly, props to him), but he'll remind you every mile along the way.
The thing that is most annoying about EJ is EXACTLY what happened here. If EJ isn't the top insider, you're dead to him. He'll change his entire tune/narrative about the recruit and/or his family. EJ takes things so incredibly personally with recruiting that it seems unhealthy - it is DEFINITELY unprofessional. No exaggeration, it's incredibly strange how personally he takes everything - maybe it's because of the "work" that he puts in, but what he does not realize is that his personality is going to make things that way. For guys who want a friend or big brother to be their beat reporter in recruiting...EJ is their guy! And good for them. For guys who don't, they seem to all find him off-putting and "paparazzi-ish." He is just as arrogant as Sam, it's just a different arrogant.
Both of them are effective at their job because their personalities are very specific. Sam is going to draw your Lloyd Carr era, ties to someone you know, traditional types. EJ is going to be cool for the 17-year olds that want to text back and forth all day/night, want someone to come see them play, and someone who will give them crazy amounts of attention. And he'll build genuine relationships with those guys.
You can leverage both of them for quality inside info...it just depends on the recruit. For Jadyn, it's Sam, period. The one caveat you have to remind yourself is...he's going to tell me 100% of the good, but only 50% of the bad. He's not going to mess up that gravy train, because when he says Jadyn Davis...we click. If the Davis family cut off the faucet of info because he's being too harsh, he's giving up that huge advantage he has with that particular relationship.
"Nimrod" is funny though. I haven't heard that in so long. Bring back nimrod, "dweeb," and "twerp!"
A bugs bunny joke that went over most people's heads as they misunderstood it completely changed the meaning of Nimrod. I myself grew up calling people nimrods, and didn't have a clue.
The mighty hunter Nimrod (Elmer Fudd).
Nimrod is a wonderful word as it rolls off the tongue so well.
I make references to Nimrod in a positive light to help educate the youngsters.
MaizeBlueA2 this is the perfect summary and could be referenced every time pay site drama comes up.
Id also add that as both get older, their bread and butter, which is texting with the kids, gets harder and harder for them. Sam has moved on to the parents. EJ hasn’t yet.
The whole recruiting industry is just gross in every way. For the privilege of spoiling where a kid is going to school, these grown men harass the kid for months. I’ve stopped following it and don’t miss it a bit.
no offense Magnus...
lol Magnus doesn't do that (from what I've seen)...he scouts the heck out of the guys and provides opinions on what he sees.
I would be interested in how Magnus feels about Jadyn Davis and his ability much more than I would EJ or Sam.
EJ and Sam are there to tell you who is going to commit, which way guys are leaning, how a visit went with a recruit. Especially Sam. EJ thinks he's a part-time QB coach, but he's much more Sam than he is Magnus. Like Sam, his value is in the relationships, not in the coaching/scouting expertise.
I like Sam's radio show. The 10 minute recruiting update he does is plenty for me. I really don't care if he's right, wrong, optimistic or pessimistic. I just like to know in a very general sense what is going on. Do we have momentum or not.
I’m pretty glad I didn’t have to make a career out of acting as a go-between between irrational fan bases and 17 year-olds and their star-struck parents. Since the whole system has spun out of balance from the days that no one knew (or cared) about incoming freshmen, their is no way to operate in that domain without having to having to have a Brand(TM) yourself. At least, this is what I tell myself when Sam has bad news on the Recruiting Roundup. I have to admit that following Michigan’s recruiting (at a reasonable distance, mind you) has been fun.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:38 PM ^
Whatever it is OSU is doing with OL recruiting, I hope they keep it up!
Take 4-5 of the top 100 rated tackles and hope 2 of them can become road grader guards and the other a center...that's what they've been doing, and it simply doesn't work for a functional, consistent run game.
It's great when you just want to protect your QB and run the best version of Texas Tech air raid offense ever seen. But when you run into a team with a pulse that can match up physically up front?...It's been falling short consistently.
OSU is a soulless football factory merely recruiting the top player at each position without establishing any identity or culture or cohesion.
UM is UGA or Bama lite. We have an amazing culture and a clear identity. We just don't pull in quite the elite NFL talent of those two SEC schools. OSU, on the other hand, simply does less with more, specifically when compared to the elites.
I don’t think that was even their intention. They did that out of necessity. I think their strategy was take the highest rated guys possible, which are mostly going to be guys the services think are NFL LTs. They ended up with only tackle types and then had to improvise.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:38 PM ^
i came to mgoblog for the cat pictures. I stay on mgoblog to see what high school kids are tweeting at each other.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
Here's an OSU cat playing defense.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
These type of exchanges are way better now that we have beat them back to back times. In the past I would cringe and get sad. Now it is oddly enjoyable.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
O'line U!
April 19th, 2023 at 12:42 PM ^
Moore goes to the HS where I live. I went to their last playoff game and wasn't too impressed with his play.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
Let's ask Aidan Hutchinson who he'd rather play against.
This gif ages like a fine wine. Every time I see it, it's somehow better than the last time. Does not get old. It's just fantastic.
Hutchinson as "Jefferson." I like it. :)
- - -
Back to the main topic, this is exactly the sort of thing I want directed from OSU to guys like Hamilton and Roebuck. It may be overrated as motivation, but it can't hurt.
I want this gif somehow played on my gravestone permanently.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
Watching "twitter beef" feels like:
April 19th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
All I learned from this is that one of the top OT prospects for 2024 is actually named Jimothy.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:54 PM ^
With a name like that he should be blocking for Tathan.
The other four lineman were Ryck, Myck, Dyck, and Nyck.
April 19th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
Gotta love the Buckeye mentality of self-delusion. "We're better even when we lose!" And the "we didn't even offer that guy" has got serious "you can't fire me I quit" energy. I'm sure they wish they would've offered a few of our guys after the last two manhandlings.
Funniest thing to me is they didn't offer Rod Moore, who is from Ohio, and their safeties they got instead got absolutely shredded against us. Him not having an OSU offer is really something they should be ashamed of, not bragging about
If you'd been a prospective secondary recruit on the sidelines of last year's game, as Cameron Calhoun was, and saw what kind of coaching you'd get from either side... no wonder he committed to us right after the game.
If this is the kind of talk we’re hearing from recruits that aren’t even on campus yet then Michigan will control this rivalry for YEARS to come.
When Ohio was on their ridiculous 15/16 run they not only had the better team physically, they KNEW they would win mentally. Most years, Michigan lost The Game before they even took the field. It was despicable.
Now that that mental edge is gone and the physical gap is closing, Ohio is searching for anything they can to get the “edge” back.
Michigan, to Harbaughs credit, has been built on a very blue collar, we are gonna outwork you, mentality. It works for them.
Ohio are diluting themselves into thinking offers/stars can win them this rivalry again when it won’t. These guys are more worried about where they rank on a stupid list vs how they should improve themselves or their future team.