TCU's use of pick routes - legal, illegal, somewhere in-between?
I had the all-22 camera view on one of the TVs we were watching the game on, and noticed on several key plays TCU seemingly ran pick routes, some of them actually almost looked to be improvised with how late into the play they happened. Like targeting, it seems that there is a lot of gray area and a lack of consistency in how it is called.
It is my understanding that a pick play is generally legal if a receiver does not deviate from their route to initiate contact, but on both of TCU's TD passes their slot receiver blatantly left their route to move into the path of Michigan corners covering crossing routes.
The first TD pass, #27 in the slot takes stops his route and takes two hops sideways to block Turner's path, Turner actually swerves to avoid most of the contact which may have cost him from getting the flag thrown:
https://youtu.be/1HKmnriYImE?t=229
Then on the huge 76 yard TD pass, again the slot receiver, #4 on this play, breaks off his route and flat out blocks Will Johnson while the ball is still in the air. If he isn't interfered with Will probably bails out Turner and tackles or pushes the receiver out of bounds around the first down marker:
So for someone more knowledgeable then me, is there something I'm missing that makes these legal plays?
[Ed-Seth: Both were clearly legal since the WR was behind the LOS.]
January 1st, 2023 at 9:42 PM ^
How about our use of dumbass blitz packages?
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:29 AM ^
This website cries more than my wife does watching Steel Magnolias
January 1st, 2023 at 9:49 PM ^
He collided with Will right around the same time the ball got to Johnston. I don't think there's anything there, I think Michigan was dumb to blitz. Furthermore, Michigan's defense was swiss cheese against the run. Duggan really didn't do anything. Wasn't like the guy was dropping dimes all over the place. They took advantage of our stupidity, that play went for 76 yards, Duggan threw for only 225 the entire game.
January 2nd, 2023 at 9:04 AM ^
Gonna disagree with your first sentence (second picture, right?). His shoulder was already into Johnson with the ball 3 yards away. That should have been a clear flag. But the ref was watching the ball, not the nearby players. That was just more officiating malfeasance, but something that probably happens 10 time a game, though this instance was pretty blatant and should have been called.
No argument with the rest of your post...
Edit: Just saw the tweet below clearly showing Johnston behind the LoS, so no foul whatsoever. An excellent route by Johnston and good downfield blocking to spring him. As experienced fans of blocking WRs, we should applaud the execution of this play - and hope Minter can figure out a way to execute the damn thing.
January 1st, 2023 at 9:49 PM ^
I didn't think it was legal at the time. I have seen several highlight clips today where there are other instances of grabbing and holding that were less than egregious but callable holds by TCU while up field on offense and defense. I am convinced (included comments by the announcers about Hodges-Tomlinson holding early in the game) that TCU was going to bend the rules as a style of play and if the referees did something about then so be it.
January 1st, 2023 at 9:50 PM ^
On the first one, I agree that #27 blatantly ignores his route and runs in front of Turner, but he doesn’t seem to make any contact at all so can there actually be a foul there? Also, Turner was already multiple steps behind his man before this pick route was even initiated so I feel this is a moot point. The guy would’ve scored either way I think.
On the second one, the trail position that Will is coming from absolutely wouldn’t have allowed him to bail out Turner or prevent Johnston from picking up the first down. Plus, it seems to me that the instant Will is blocked by the other TCU receiver is roughly the same instant that Johnston receives the pass. Again, doesn’t really seem like a penalty was committed.
These both feel like big reaches to me and neither seem like fouls.
January 2nd, 2023 at 3:12 AM ^
In the first one, it would be a penalty if he just ran into him. But, because he tried to run around the defender, which had the same affect of taking him out of the play, it ends up not being a penalty.
The coaching moment would be to run into the pic and not try to avoid it.
January 1st, 2023 at 9:56 PM ^
I’m waiting for Bert Bielema to weigh in.
January 1st, 2023 at 10:07 PM ^
You might want to step back.
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:04 AM ^
We taking literal or figurative?
January 2nd, 2023 at 7:09 AM ^
Fetch in the heavy duty scales.
January 1st, 2023 at 9:58 PM ^
Just like targeting, if it's not called it must be legal.
January 1st, 2023 at 10:31 PM ^
if you don't touch the db you are ok nothing illegal
January 1st, 2023 at 10:43 PM ^
Johnston bent his route back in order to catch the ball behind the LOS which by rule allows for the receivers to block downfield
January 1st, 2023 at 10:48 PM ^
This is the answer. Both passes were behind the line of scrimmage so they could have blocked even more than they did and it was still legal
January 1st, 2023 at 11:02 PM ^
Thank you for posting. This is an interesting wrinkle of which I was unaware. It did appear that their receivers grabbed the Wolverine DBs at times to get them in a position to be blocked as in changing their route, hooking them, pulling them, then blocking.
I will go into old man mode and whine about the good old days when any grabbing of jerseys was a holding penalty.
January 1st, 2023 at 11:42 PM ^
Grabbing the jersey is still called for holding (if the officials catch it), but blocking anywhere is legal on any pass behind the LOS
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:05 AM ^
That makes sense! Thanks for pointing that out. Credit to TCU that is excellent execution on their part.
January 1st, 2023 at 10:53 PM ^
Both passes were caught behind the line of scrimmage making them legal.
(and I formally apologize for my multiple posts last night complaining about the same 🤓)
January 1st, 2023 at 10:56 PM ^
EDIT: Nevermind, the ball was caught behind the LOS. It was a legal play.
January 1st, 2023 at 11:16 PM ^
They were doing it all day. Was worse in
person. Officiating was brutal both ways.
January 1st, 2023 at 11:34 PM ^
At the end of the day these plays wouldn't matter if we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot over and over again. Really if we just shot one less shot in our foot we win that game.
January 2nd, 2023 at 7:40 AM ^
Exactly this.
We all knew TCU had a good offense and was going to make some plays.
The game lies on the 2 missed opportunities inside the 2 yard line and the 2 pick 6's.
They made plays, we made plays, we shot ourselves in the foot, they didn't.
Of course if the refs do their job...We are playing next week, and every single Michigan fan is entitled to be pissed off about that blown review. It just can't happen.
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:14 AM ^
Any pass caught behind the LOS is technically a screen. The college game typically gives you a few yards past the LOS before they start using downfield passing rules. Perfectly legal.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:50 AM ^
Could M have instituted such plays?
January 2nd, 2023 at 9:20 AM ^
Yes. But Michigan's passing game is simplistic, unsophisticated, and lacks any imagination whatsoever. There is no pass guy on the staff that remotely approaches what Gattis was. Weiss and Moore are both career long run guys, and Bellamy seems to still coach WRs like he's working high school juniors.
JJ dealt to wide open receivers all night because Wilson was flat out blowing by coverage and Bell found the holes left by Wilson's demand for doubles later in the game. Michigan's pass game is an accessory, its earrings on a girl - looks shiny, attracts some attention, but does nothing to get her what she wants in the end*.
(* It's a metaphor, I don't know what she wants - could be anything. Use your imagination.)
January 2nd, 2023 at 10:05 AM ^
Well the shitty unsophisticated passing game was the only thing keeping Michigan from getting completely embarrassed. They did nothing else well all game.
January 2nd, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^
Look at the passing game against TCU, though. It was Wilson blowing by everyone, which opened up Bell more underneath. And it was a desperation move to go to those plays after getting down 21-3! I was speaking more about the pass game used all year, in more 'normal' game situations.
JJ was dealing Saturday, and Wilson and Bell paid it off. But it was done because of a desperate change of plan.
January 2nd, 2023 at 11:21 AM ^
You are 100% correct.
We need an OC who can bring a more sophisticated pass game.
We shouldn't be dealing with 1st time Co-ordinators at a place like Michigan.
The red zone play calling was simply atrocious all year. The lack or even the will to throw in the end zone or deep vertically hinders this team severely.
What happened when we unleashed our passing game against OSU and TCU?
Guys got open. JJ got them the ball. We drew several penalties. The pass opened up the running game (not TCU).
There's no reason for our offense to be as conservative as it is.
January 2nd, 2023 at 7:31 AM ^
On the TD would have been nice if Colson got a bump on the WR coming off the line. Think still legal that close?
January 2nd, 2023 at 9:21 AM ^
Inside 5 yards, yes - but not when the ball is in the air.
January 2nd, 2023 at 3:58 PM ^
Would have been ok then since it was before he cut across the field.
January 2nd, 2023 at 7:33 AM ^
How about stop looking for excuses? This was a spectacular season. The bowl game issues are real and it's the next hurdle Harbaugh needs jump over. Pick routes are not the reason for that loss. Onward