reshp1

May 15th, 2019 at 5:10 PM ^

It's not as black and white as that. If you're literally the only one following all the rules, how is that fair? What advantage are you gaining if you're only doing the same thing as your competition, probably a lot less actually. Breaking certain NCAA rules is about as a victimless crime as there is, and in fact in most cases there's direct benefit for student athletes. If the coach looks the other way when the bagmen come around, I really don't care. 

Gameboy

May 15th, 2019 at 6:01 PM ^

At the end of the day, Michigan is an institution of higher learning who actually cares about its mission, unlike UNC. If Michigan decided to drop all D1 sports because of rampant cheating, I would be perfectly fine with it. The number 1 goal for all sports program must be, even before winning, to never do anything to embarrass the institution. If that means we are the only ones following the rule, and losing so be it.

Gameboy

May 16th, 2019 at 12:07 AM ^

So I guess the whole Fab Five and payola, forfeited tournament runs, sanctions, etc. was not embarrassing at all? I guess we have completely different standards when it comes to painting University of Michigan in a negative light.

Solecismic

May 15th, 2019 at 4:17 PM ^

I think that's a question better answered by our new coach's wife or significant other. Although in extreme cases, it could be a recruiting issue.

tasnyder01

May 15th, 2019 at 5:38 PM ^

Ah, guess it wasn't clear. What I'm trying to say:

1.) I'd prefer wins over cleanliness. (If I could only choose one or the other).

2.) I'd prefer to have both (wins and clean coach), but I don't think that's likely. I think people who dream of a "clean coach who also wins championships" are asking for a unicorn -- one does not exist. 

Specifically, any champ coach who is also clean is not leaving their school to come here. So like, maybe Wright is clean. But he ain't an option. 

njvictor

May 15th, 2019 at 4:59 PM ^

To anyone who wants an 100% clean coach: There are maybe <5 coaches out there who are clean and contend for a championship, none of which we are going to get. Keep that in mind. Beilein was a luxury that we probably won't ever have again in terms of being clean and contending

stephenrjking

May 15th, 2019 at 5:22 PM ^

The survey doesn't presume that Iowa/Bama are the only two possibilities. It just clarifies that, given the choice of ok and clean or great and dirty, how many people would accept dirty to be great?

We gripe about Bama's ethics, but it is my opinion that if Michigan were as successful as Bama, there wouldn't be a lot of people wringing their hands that they'd really rather be mediocre and be clean.

I needed a neutral pairing of teams for the proper level of objectivity.

wolfman81

May 15th, 2019 at 6:53 PM ^

But the space between Iowa and Alabama is vast.  Both in quality and in cleanliness.  What about Oklahoma?  I (admittedly) don't pay attention to recruiting with the devotion of many on this board, but OU seems (to me anyway) a clean alternative and a tougher choice to make because they have won their league and been to the CFP in recent history (even if they didn't have a legit shot to win it all in their most recent trip).

To bring it back to Bball, what about if a coach ran a 100% clean program, and routinely got to the Sweet 16, but rarely to the final 4.  

jakerblue

May 15th, 2019 at 4:20 PM ^

Huge difference between looking the other way over a little cash dirty, and covering up for sexual crimes (cough::Izzo::cough) dirty or being a totally dispicable human being like Pitino.

 

tasnyder01

May 15th, 2019 at 5:14 PM ^

I'm down to pay players, but 2 important stipulations

1.) Only cash payments. Those are ethical, while free cars and tatoos are Not Ethical!

2.) We retain the right to claim the moral high ground. Because we only pay players because everyone else does, and no one else pays players "because everyone else does." Even tho everyone else does!

jakerblue

May 15th, 2019 at 4:22 PM ^

if you take away the pay for play is Calipari that great of a coach? Not a leading question, I honestly don't know. Is he great only because he gets the talent, or would he still be a great coach with a more level playing field recruiting wise

bronxblue

May 15th, 2019 at 5:05 PM ^

He's a decent coach but his teams are almost always exactly as good as the talent they have on the roster.  He had a future All-Star a couple of years ago in KAT (plus some other elite players) and he won a ton of games.  Two years later he had Jamal Murray and not much else and they were a fine-if-unremarkable team.

He'd be a fine coach but I honestly don't think he could be "Coach Cal" without the shadiness.

FatGuyTouchdown

May 15th, 2019 at 5:14 PM ^

Exactly. I like Bill Connolly's explanation from SBNation that at least with football there's basically 3 buckets. You have Recruiting, Development, and Deployment. You need to do all three at a high level to be successful nationally/compete for championships.

Urban Meyer did the first two incredibly well, Jim Harbaugh did the first two slightly less well. Mark Dantonio did the second two well, James Franklin did the first and the third one well. Saban and Swinney are the only ones I've seen consistently do all three at a high level. Recruiting is a major part of coaching and anyone that chalks up Calipari to just being a recruiter is a moron. Sean Miller also recruits insanely well, and hasn't had a tenth of the success as Calipari.

Sparty Doesn't Know

May 15th, 2019 at 4:25 PM ^

In the words of the aptly named band Anarbor:  Always dirty, I am never clean

 

 

Goggles Paisano

May 15th, 2019 at 4:26 PM ^

I want the high level of integrity that Beilein built to remain in tact.  Those are big shoes to fill from that front, but something close is what I would prefer.  

Yessir

May 15th, 2019 at 8:08 PM ^

I respect your opinion, but disagree. 

The NCAA is simply looking the other way these days.  I don't agree with our coaches having to spend more time, probably WAY more time, recruiting and losing on recruits(or backing off cuz he's dirty) cuz of some bagman. 

Our roster isn't as talented, from a BBall perspective, as other schools cuz kids and their families want a piece of the NCAA money pie.  

As long as Beilein and/or Warde aren't going to go public and shame the system, then join them.  

Hated to say that, but my opinion on this has evolved.  Completely changed to 'join them'. 

Soulfire21

May 15th, 2019 at 4:28 PM ^

Does anyone get in trouble for major NCAA violations anymore? Is anything going to come of this FBI investigation at all?

I hate to say I'd tolerate breaking NCAA rules, but if there are no consequences for rule-breakers and you give up a competitive advantage by being 100% clean, I dunno.

It just sucks that this is the state of affairs we are in.