Survey: How clean do you want Michigan's coach to be?
There's some question about how "clean" a coach the fanbase wants, so I thought a survey would be in order.
Here's a link.
Michigan coaching: How clean do you want your coach to be?
And remember, this is for posterity, so please, be honest.
i'd rather lose honestly than win by cheating. integrity is important.
No integrity is compromised by paying players or their family. It’s disgusting and un-American to say someone can’t be paid for their work. Uofm should be paying athletes.
U of M (and other NCAA schools) are paying athletes. In fact, they are paying so well that almost all high school graduates who can sign up with colleges. The 'market value' that people seem to regard so highly appears to be so significantly lower than colleges offer in compensation that even students who don't get scholarships still seem to prefer the college deal to any alternative, and walk on or go to Div III.
It's disgusting and anti-American to expect institutions that already pay over market value to pay even more just so some chest-thumpers on some college sports blog can feel macho and claim that players aren't paid for their work.
awful fanbase
Like Mr. Veritably Clean's buttcheeks after the 2020 Calgary bidet convention and gun show.
"kinda"
Nothing says integrity like stealing black kids' labor.
LOL. Ok dude.
The market dictates Warde Manuel deserves millions of dollars to fuck up our basketball program and Zavier Simspon deserves jack shit. It's just science dude.
There are varying degrees of "dirty". No one wants Pitino supplying hookers or Izzo covering up sexual assaults. But paying players? I have 0 problem with that.
Good post. I don't think it will ever be as simple as paying players in an unfettered marketplace, but if it did our money cannon is powerful. Even a controlled marketplace (eg allowing loans, right to names/likeness, stipends or salaries) favors a university with a massive network and athletic endowment like Michigan's.
Agree, but I would also include academic fraud as a dealbreaker. Sorry, Clem Haskins.
What did hookers ever do to you?
I’m at the point that I feel coaches who blindly follow the rules of an organization as corrupt as the NCAA are also moral failures for other reasons. Not paying the kids while pocketing millions of $$$ doesn’t appeal to me either.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO Iowa aint clean, I've paid their players enough money to know that first hand.
Literally everyone is cheating and it’s forms are myriad. The NCAA is no longer enforcing the rules. So in that light, I don’t care about bag in the slightest but no academic scandals or major legal incidents please.
I hope he showers at least once per day.
Like a pig in slop....happy.
I'd like him to bathe once in a great while, so Crean is out.
The NCAA's twisted version of amateurism is premised on abject hypocrisy. I could care less if a recruit or his family got paid in exchange for providing labor that generates handsome profits for numerous stakeholders (including the NCAA). That's not immoral; that's called capitalism. Only by fiat of the NCAA are we led to believe that there's something morally improper about that concept.
That having been said, I want a coach who is smart and savvy enough to: 1) keep several layers between himself and the system by which such payments are made, so he can maintain plausible deniability, 2) retain enough control so that the system doesn't run amok (i.e., coaches arranging for hookers to entertain players during recruiting trips, players taking fictitious classes or having "tutors" do all of their work for them, players taking six-figure sums from dudes who run illegal gambling rings in their basement, etc).
In short, I want a coach who can maintain some guardrails around the seamy underbelly and avoid getting caught. If money is the only thing changing hands and the money isn't dirty in and of itself, then do what you gotta do; just don't get caught.
I have to say, my answers today are much more circumspect on these issues than they would have been 25 years ago.
I have come a nearly full 180 from a get out the pitchforks guy, to why shouldn't the players share in all this revenue?
I think part of this is because I was at UM when Texas A&M offered Bo a tidy sum of $300,000 annually to coach them. Loyalty and all that. Bo is and was King.
But let's remember that JH makes literally more than 25 times what Bo made then. The players are largely in the same boat as they were in 1980.
Those that are hardcore about this should be forced to justify the salaries for the coaches and administrators.
The tuition is the same as 1980? The living facilities? Training facilities? The training table? Tutoring?
These guys live pretty well for students on the University dime. They work their a**es off for that, no doubt. Not saying their benefits are keeping pace with coaching salaries, because they most certainly are not, but neither are tuition rates keeping pace with the average Joe's wages and ability to pay tuition either.
The rules are bad, so change the rules, don't break them.
And before you call me a hypocrite again -- nobody is paying millions of dollars to televise my drive to work in some kind of commuting competition.
Following the rules is (a) supposed to be part of the lesson that justifies having college sports in the first place, and (b) central to the competition. People get up in arms about referee incompetence and possible bias. Why? Because it negates the competition. What's the point in playing a game if the rules aren't being enforced?
I would sooner have Warde Manuel shutter the program than I would see him hire a coach and tell him that the rules don't matter. At least then he could say he took a stand for something important.
A thousand times this. Michigan has no business running a pro sports team, as so many here want. it's not in the school's mission charter. If you want to see the players paid, then prepare for the team to then be sold off to a profit-making entity. Use the proceeds for more child cancer research, or whatever.
My actual preferred solution would be to have the Big ten and pac Twelve split off from the NCAA, form their own athletic association, and tell the rest of college athletics (and the NCAA) to fuck right off. Sure, they'd never again win an "NCAA national championship," but so what? Harvard doesn't win many of those and seems to be doing okay. Ditto, say, Chicago or RPI. Tossing out one's own moral compass because one doesn't think it possible to compete with others who have done so is a Faustian bargain, and we know how those turn out.
It's not like the NCAA really cares, so why should we?
Squeaky clean. John Beilein-like.
This conversation is so lacking in nuance. You can be concerned about labor and exploitation while also wanting to do things transparently and above water.
I want a clean coach. How that is defined is the real question. I don't want a coach who actively tries to break rules...however, in this landscape of everyone OBVIOUSLY paying for players, and how that drove a guy like Beilein to take a job at a place like fucking CLEVELAND...fuck it, pay the players, just be discreet as possible (as in, the coach knows as little as possible).
Until drastic changes are made to the system, we just have to accept that college basketball is a dirty sport. And Beilein was the last clean guy around.
Hire Billy Donovan. I'm sure he had people paying players at Florida, but he had a relatively clean reputation and the success to back it up.
clean enough to get away w/ what izzo gets away with
All I want is for the coach to be clean enough to where it's basically a non issue. As long as this coach isn't pulling a Arizona or LSU, I think we should be fine
Not Pitino/Calipari/ Jim stressel type of snake oil.
but to be so naive as to think we’ll find another John Beilein who can actually take the program and maintain or even improve its standing is sad and unfair to the program imho.
Warde better not let the program dive back into perpetual mediocrity.
So mostly clean, but I want to win.
Absolutely clean! I don't ever want bagmen, to pay players, strippers, hookers, none of that! I take pride in the university that I attended running clean programs.
Ok, that is all well and good but that ship has sailed.
There was the Fab Five era and we were just named in the Adidas trial as one of the FB teams taking cash.
Clean is a relative term anymore.
First, it has not been alleged that the coaching staff was involved in those unnamed players getting paid during the Hoke Era. Further, the Hoke Era is over by 4 seasons. Harbaugh runs a clean program, Beilein ran a clean program, and those are the strategies I want to see continue. I won't support a program with buying tickets and merchandise if integrity is not a priority for the coaches. For example, if Pitino, Larry Brown, or Calipari were the head coach, I'd put the program on ignore until they are gone.
Harbaugh is a “clean” coach. But you do realize many of our football players are getting cash from somewhere right ?
We need a coach who allows the bag men to work, but also allows zero victim crimes from his players. That’s clean to me in 2019.
I want him showered fresh daily.
A majority of the competition being dirty makes this much easier
Would I consider Cal if rules were abolished?? Hell i’d Consider Cal right now!!!! If the rumor about the Nike rep is serious, and Cal possibly having interest...he should’ve been the first person to get a call!
Under the table payments are almost always federal offenses. It should be incredible that people are willing to support this and willing to incentivize Michigan staff in a way that encourages them to risk federal prosecution because they want to win in basketball. But its actually not really all that unexpected.
Its also funny that people try to separate illicit payments from other things like covering for players or coaches crimes. hint: its all coming from the same place. Its not rape culture, its win at all cost culture and you are giving it a massive thumbs up.
How about paying players when its legal to do so and taxes are being paid on those salaries and there’s transparency on those transactions?
I don't know that it is that simple for me. I don't expect absolute adherence to the NCAA's rules because the NCAA is itself a moral dungheap in a lot of respects. At the same time, I don't want the second coming of Rick Pitino.
Give me 12 more John Beilein type years over 12 years of Rick Pitino type years 100% of the time,with zero regrets.
National titles are great,but getting them by being a scumbag and everyone knowing you are a scumbag,ill pass......
F’n clean.
Nuff said.
Go Blue.
No one's talking about condoning illegeal/immoral activity here. No hookers for play, not covering up sex assault.
We're talking about breaking NCAA rules, and at this point, with Zona backing Miller and the rest of the trial a big fat nothing burger, I'm done.
Taget the top 25 players in the nation. Do a back ground check that they are decent humans. if they pass, bring the LOI to their house with a Brinks truck and tell them they can name their price if they sign on the line that is dotted.
Couldn’t agree more. If you can’t beat them join them. As long as it’s just paying players. NCAA doesn’t care. Why should we? They’re the ones that made these stupid rules.
I'd prefer the head coach to bathe at least once a week.
Minimum Standard:
What does "clean" even mean?
If a kid gets money, he is not stealing it. He's getting it from somebody with plenty to spare who wants to give it out.
It's not an actual crime. It's an artificial made-up situation.
It's driving 70 mph on a sunny day on Interstate marked 55. Nobody cares and it's not enforced . . . because it does not really matter.
Expect ALL Michigan coaches to shower daily. And brush those teeth twice a day!
As clean as f***