Sources: Stalions bought 30 tickets over 3 yeara
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727023/u-m-staffer-bought-tickets-11-schools
Sources caveat applies but this provides more insight into the complaint.
October 23rd, 2023 at 7:01 PM ^
Trust me, as a guy that is getting 60% disability from the VA it ain't much money.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:12 PM ^
What do you mean? Above I wrote "possibly getting a pension" and SF Wolverine asserted that that wasn't possible based on his length of service, but disability is another way to get a pension.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
Yeah, but I'm not sure why that's a big deal. I also have a VA disability rating and a pension...but I'm trying to see why that would be a factor to consider in all of this.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:30 PM ^
Gotcha. The linked story focuses on the "thousands of dollars" in tickets and travel costs, strongly implying that this would be unaffordable on his $55k UM salary. Receiving a pension could make the costs seem less crazy (although the same would be true of any other outside income, e.g., a rental property portfolio).
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:34 PM ^
Ahh, fair point. I guess I can see that then. I've been trying to see how old he is, and although he is a Capt (typically a rank one usually doesn't retire as), but if he's prior enlisted he certainly could have retired as a capt with years in the enlisted force beforehand.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
Yeah I know people are trying to connect his salary to the price of the scheme, but to me that is irrelevant. He was buying this an "investment" in his career, because witht his kind of advantage he was probably hoping to become a college position coach in the next few years where he would start making 6 figures. If he kept going he might have been on the fast track to head coach making millions. He wasn't trying to make money, or even break even in the short term. This is all about making a name for himself as the boy wonder, getting on the fast track, and cashing in down the road.
further, he was an unpaid volunteer for the team for 7 years before getting hired. He clearly valued putting in the "work" to be a high level football coach, more than he valued his current financial situation.
October 23rd, 2023 at 6:59 PM ^
Hes not. He's in the IRR which is the Individual Ready Reserves for all intents and purposes he is out. Not retired no pension just a regular guy that did his required active time and owes some inactive reserve time.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:41 PM ^
I'm really curious what the precedent is for a non-staff member violating the bylaws is. As far as I can tell, only the electronic recording of the signals is prohibited, I don't know if that would legally include using the electronic recordings that someone else took.
In-person scouting has clearly been breached, since it was at the behest of a staff member. This feels like vacated wins are coming...
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:41 PM ^
There are no penalties for "stealing signs" which is also a misnomer ("analyzing opponent communications" would be more accurate).
The only penalties would be for a university program member to be "scouting" at another team's game... which could be recording them but also would include just sitting and watching a game (no technology used and no focus on any specific details).
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:52 PM ^
These are the two things Michigan appears in violation of:
"The first NCAA rule in question is scouting in opposing stadiums, which has been in place since 1994. The second potential rule being broken, evidence of which had not been reported prior, could mean that Michigan violated Article 11 subsection H of the NCAA football rulebook: "Any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel is prohibited."
It's not that they were stealing signs, it's that they were going about it in a really dumb and traceable way.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:41 PM ^
The second one is very questionable to me. It's in the "Players and Playing Equipment" section of the rule book. And the Article is titled "Prohibited Field Equipment." It's a real stretch to say the alleged conduct at an entirely different stadium on a different day violates that rule.
Maybe they have him on in person scouting if you assume the ticket is compensation, but that's about it. This really should be a "hey, knock that off" type of situation.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:46 PM ^
That article you quoted applies to gamedays where your team is playing. It's under the "permissible equipment" section. It wouldn't apply to this situation.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
Yeah....this is likely the end of Harbaugh at Michigan. Or at the very least the chatter of Harbaugh to the NFL is gonna get EXTRA loud this offseason.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
Why do you think this feels like a one man operation? On his salary he's dropping thousands of dollars on tickets? Definitely a possibility for someone who really wants to get ahead, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was someone else on the coaching staff reimbursing him. I just don't have a feel one way or the other
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:52 PM ^
Would be interesting to see if any schools stopped him from buying/using tickets across the home bench.
But had no qualms whatsoever about letting him buy/use tickets from across the away bench...
Not that it would exonerate Michigan, but maybe we bring the entire B10 down with us on a RICO charge.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:00 PM ^
This is why Warde suspended him. Looks like there are significant receipts. All that’s left is damage mitigation, which means that if this was really a one-man operation done without the staff’s knowledge they needed to cooperate right away.
Because opponents literally have receipts. You can’t stonewall that.
So if Harbaugh didn’t know what he was doing, you hang Stallions out to dry.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:08 PM ^
Shouldn't we have suspended him without pay if we knew about these receipts?
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:09 PM ^
I'm curious why he was suspended with pay... was Manuel completely unaware that Stalions was purchasing tickets?
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^
Exactly. And if you suspend him with pay you increase the chances he wont turn antagonistic and try and bring everyone down with him.
Interesting. The other day everyone assumed he was suspended with pay because we knew he was innocent - now it appears quite the opposite to be true.
I suspect when the punishment for this episode has been taken in full measure we'll long for the good old days of stretchgate & cheeseburgers because I think this is going to be very, very bad.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:07 PM ^
"I think this is going to be very, very bad."
And here's the thing that will really suck: after the smoke of whatever penalties we're bludgeoned with dissipates, in five years or so, the NCAA will quietly rescind the 1994 rule that was broken because the original reason for it—that it's too expensive to film opponents—no longer is the case in the era of universal camera phones that shoot pretty good video.
So all of this dumb skullduggery by the idiot eager beaver to circumvent a stupid rule was ultimately pointless.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:27 PM ^
Warde better make damn sure there are no emails/smoking gun between Stalions and anyone else on staff. not saying he should cover it up, just saying he needs to be 110% sure before he pins it all on Stalions.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:24 PM ^
This is going to cost us our season with our best team in 20 years isn’t it?
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:27 PM ^
As long as they win it all, I don't care what NCAA does with the wins
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:28 PM ^
They could get to the meat of this before the Playoff. Expect the worst at this point.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
If Michigan is issued a violation, they have 90 days to respond which takes us into late January.
I'm getting really annoyed at people saying shit as if they know it in this whole mess.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:42 PM ^
Concern trolls are always concerned.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:42 PM ^
I'm getting really annoyed at people saying shit as if they know it in this whole mess.
you must be new here.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
Lololololololololol!!!
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:43 PM ^
You have not taken the course “the essence of a witch-hunt.” As long as you have Joel Klatt saying this is VERY serious in a very serious voice they could get public support to make up some rule to keep Michigan from the Playoff or just put some much pressure on the Playoff committee to keep them out. What is happening is attempted cancellation of Michigan. Expect the worst.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
I don't know if the committee wants to set a precedence. What is stopping teams from trying drag another team thru the mud. That will be a bad idea. Oh Fuck Klatt
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:59 PM ^
At this point I just want to kick the shit out of Penn State and OSU and then see what happens.
Yes, I guess I am in the minority of people who think Michigan could get royally hosed here.
Once again, also, all of this is complete bullshit. But sometimes that’s enough. Needed a stronger more aggressive response than Manuel gave.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:54 PM ^
You rather us act like the blog writers (who had the kid writing for the site) and sweep it under the rug like it’s nothing? The evidence and the attention makes it pretty clear sanctions are coming. In season or after is pretty meaningless at this point.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
Are you kidding me? They want blood with Jim. They're gonna block us from the playoff.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
The playoff that.. isn't administered by the NCAA?
Good take.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:00 PM ^
Not administered by the NCAA but postseason bans are and the CoFoPo upholds those. Also, how many guys on the playoff committee are going to get on their high horse and block us "on principle"?
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:15 PM ^
Zero. The only people who are taking this at face value are in East Lansing and/or Ryan Day's headmates.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:20 PM ^
You are not getting this. They have already passed the most important hurdle. People are buying this shit. It is a complete joke that is being taken seriously. There is some pretty evident ridiculousness that’s already being taken at face value. It is hard to turn that around.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:38 PM ^
No, you're not getting it. Nobody is buying this stuff. All of the people who like to dunk on Michigan are actually coming to Harbaugh's defense. The only people taking this seriously are OSU and MSU fans, plus Ryan Day. And while it sucks that we'll have to put up with their sanctimonious idiocy for the next 40 years, it does not mean that the NCAA is going to operate at warp speed to try to torpedo the current season and, in the process, deprive their TV partners of getting to host a team that will bring in more monetizable eyeballs than any other.
I want to be outraged by this, because I'll be damned if I'm going to have another Michigan memory tainted by cheating. (The Fab Five was bad enough). But I simply can't be. The rules are the rules, but it honestly isn't even clear that the rules were broken. Michigan may have found a loophole, and if so, God bless 'em.
Hell, forget paying people -- I guarantee you that we could find volunteers on this blog to go to games and iPhone the sidelines. It just never occurred to any of us to try it.
October 23rd, 2023 at 4:53 PM ^
The B1G Conference is buying it--enough so that they told MSU about it as well as our future conference opponents--most of who already knew. And the B1G doesn't have to take years to do something--if they decide that we have violated the integrity and fairness of the game(s) and achieved a competitive advantage over our opponents than they can and probably will come down on us. If they ban us from the conference championship game, for example, then we can't be conference champs and would be unlikely to be chosen for the CFP.
Like I wrote elsewhere, I'm actually not a pessimist by nature but I think people who trying to parse the rules of law here or determine if we 'found' a loophole are missing the point.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:41 PM ^
The Big Ten knows where their bread is buttered. And it only takes about one minute to understand that even if all of the allegations are true, it doesn't impact the integrity of the game.
This is the same nonsense as people thinking counting cards is illegal or unethical in blackjack, presumably because it's not nice to notice things that happen around you. You want to have giant signboards, and you can't be bothered using decoys? Or changing your signs between opponents? Or using misinformation to get your opponent to think you're running your base play, and then run the counter? All of that is on you. It's not Michigan's job to protect you from yourself.
And note that OSU changed their signs before last year's game. And still lost 45-23.
October 23rd, 2023 at 5:01 PM ^
I AM NOT outraged by what is alleged. It’s complete bullshit. But your faith that what is about to happen will be reasonable is completely misplaced. I expect it to be the most unreasonable thing possible. It’s a witch-hunt. They don’t play by the rules you are using.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
You think the CFP committee is going to proactively block Michigan based on a pending NCAA investigation?
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:45 PM ^
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
Oh, gawd, the dreaded double-tap.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:24 PM ^
Oh boy, those are some pretty damning allegations. If true, what the actual fuck? Do we just not have a compliance department?
I gotta say, this has totally sapped my interest and excitement for this season.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:30 PM ^
In fairness to any compliance folks, who would ever think to do something like this (presumably on their own and with their own money)?
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
And there it is: The Black Pit of Negative Expectations. Even if he did this of his own initiative, the NCAA will come down hard on Michigan in general and Harbaugh in particular.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:36 PM ^
I seriously doubt that the UM AD is monitoring low-level staff's bank accounts.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:44 PM ^
proving once again that no sentence starting with the phrase "if true" has ever been worth finishing.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^
Im rapidly entering the BPONPOSAPBE* and im not doing great
*Black Pit Of Negative Possible Off-field Sanctions And Potential Postseason Ban Expectations