So are we going to get that recruiting bump in MBB?
This has been talked about here and there in other threads, but thought I would make one dedicated post to this topic.
We all remember what happened last time we made it to the NCAA tournament finals. From the increased exposure and success, we thought we'd start getting higher profile recruits. Bubcus! Excuses were abound, including:
1. JB's archaic approach to recruiting
2. Recruiting is a dirty game of which we do not play
3. It takes time to garner the right relationships with the right recruits, so don't expect a recruiting bump right away.
So, are things different now? We've had a very successful 6 years and have sent many kids to the NBA. Are kids going to notice now? Will the FBI investigation help the clean recruiters like JB?
What say you MGoBoard?
Anus.
I guess I don't get the point of this post (which follows along with the Beilein vs. Harbaugh screed a bit ago). Beilein is a good coach and a good recruiter; he has recruited decently for some time. But it still seems that people don't quite get why he's successful. He goes after the guys he wants. He'll try to snag higher-level recruits, but I doubt John Beilein hasn't been able of walking into any home in America and try to recruit kids for some time; Michigan has had a lot to offer recruits forever. But he has a system and a type of player he wants, and so he goes out and gets it. He's gotten a couple of top-100 kids in this past class, and should be in on a good number of recruits in the coming cycle. But he isn't going to out-recruit Duke, and frankly that's for the best. 1-and-done types just don't work at Michigan, due to the intricacies of his offense and (it appears) a renewed focus on defense.
So Beilein will continue to recruit good players he figures he can improve over a couple of years, and he'll keep winning. But I don't get what level of recruiting success people expect, and honestly why that matters. Basketball has so much turnover year-to-year, guys like Cal, Self, and Coach K basically recruit guys for a year and build their teams around that model; Beilein doesn't do that, and thus by design his recruiting rankings will "suffer". But he pulls in really good classes that tend to mature and improve dramatically over the years, and that's fine by me.
Honestly, I think the Fab 5 truthers who still expect that level of instant success from MBB are few and far between; they also seem only capable of discussing the matter on talk radio or in MLive comments, which is why they seem most numerous than they are.
It would be against the norm if a few players didn't transfer before then. I'm guessing that will be a 3 man class.
Edit - this was meant as a reply to a comment above regarding the 2019 class.
JB can't win the NCG. This will be the new "JB can't recruit big men." Heard it here first.
Uhh Trevon Bluiett is not the best example. He averaged 19 PPG the last two years at Xavier. Scored over 2,000 career points, 2nd all-time in Xavier history.
Again, Bamba and Brown work for that example, but Bluiett still does not. They were a 1 seed this year and went to the elite 8 last year, 2nd round the year before that and Sweet Sixteen his freshman year.
Xavier was a 1 seed.
Texas and Cal were the worst programs Bamba and Brown were seriously considering. They didn't make those choices to win championships. They actually made the type of choice we want recruits to make.
Brown was and Bamba likely will be top 5 draft picks. That's what top recruits typically care the most about and it's evidence that they don't need to go to Duke or UK. That's an argument Beilein wants to make. Attacking their decisions would be beyond stupid.
If it comes down to who's most likely to win a title, are we really going to beat out Duke, Kentucky, UNC and a few others? Beilein's best argument is his record of player development. The tournament success is great and doubtless gets him some more looks.
Bluiett would have been a great get. Averaged double digits every year at Xavier, including 19 PPG this year.
He might not have sent Cal to the Final Four, but Jaylen Brown is a damn fine player for the Celtics right now. Pretty much the soul of that team.
Funny, but I was thinking the same thing after the competitive phase of the game ended. Charles Mathews is a destitute man's version of Battle, though. So we have that going for us.
Try to get the best players and have them stay 2-4 years. Continuity is important.
You need more than just talent to win. You need experience.
I don't like the Duke/Kentucky model where it's a new starting 5 almost every season
I know lots of Duke folks. Coach K has specifically stated that he is going to back away from that model. It has not worked out like they would have wanted.
Uh, when, he has #s 1, 2, and 3 coming in next year. You can't back away from that model any less than that. What he really needs to do is make them sit on the bench 3/4 of every game so at least 2 of them return for a second year.
Teams that were loaded with first round draft picks fell flat in the tournament. Teams full of guys showing off for the NBA didn't do nearly as well as actual teams. The Dukes and Kentuckys of the world will always start the season in the Top 10 based on talent hype, but they never develop as teams.
We had a solid class last year that was way, way underrated. Livers and Poole both contributed in year one. I still have hopes for Eli Brooks.
We have a class coming in this year that has more guys who fit the mold of what JB wants to do AND are highly ranked.
Sit back and enjoy the teams we're given by a guy who's aging better than a single malt scotch.
Our fanbase can be so ridiculously whiny sometimes!
The 2018 Class is going to be great, and then all I want in 19 is Romeo Weems. Him alone I would consider a recruiting "bump"
Solid recruiting classes have actually been the norm over the last 8 or so years. We just had a couple classes that were either slammed with unexpected attrition or missed on a couple guys we had targeted for years. Then there's something like the 2016 class where we thought we were going to get whichever of Battle and Langford chose first, then Battle screwed us up the ass and we ended up scrambling to get Ibi at the end of the cycle. All those added up to the relative dearth in talent in the 2015-2016 seasons that were also ravaged by injuries.
If we had gotten Battle or Langford, we would have had 9 top 150 recruits over the past 3 cycles, with many being top 100 plus Eli Brooks who was not top 150 but was recruited hard by some team named Villanova.
No they're not Duke level classes but if we can keep a steady stream of players ranked in the 40-130 range then we will be setup great with guys that will stay 2-4 years and grow and develop.
whtever rag tag 0 star recruits Belien Finds will compete for Big Ten Titles and Final Fours..Ive learned..do NOT judge this team early..its a exercise in futility...We have THE BEST coach in America!!
Any uptick in recruiting quality is more likely to be due to issues at other programs - the FBI investigation, problems for Izzo at MSU, new coaches at Xavier, Ohio State, Louisville, etc. I don't think Beilein and team will do anything different, but I hope the can take advantage of the more fluid situation at other places by offering a rock-solid program at Michigan, which has a demonstrated track record of recent success.
We’re fine whether we start reeling in higher rated recruits or not.
bupkis (uncountable)
Absolutely nothing; nothing of value, significance, or substance.
We searched for hours and found bupkis.
Usage notes
Often translated as meaning small round fecal pellets, referring to the shape of goat droppings. A colorful usage, though a more emphatic expression (in Yiddish more so than in English) is "bupkis mit kaduchas" (באָבקעס מיט קדחת (bobkes mit kadokhes)), translating roughly to "shivering shit balls".
Thank you. Even a goy like me knew he spelled it wrong.
In contrast to 2013, there are now 3 Beilein-coached MBB alumni peforming well in the NBA. Not sure if this is a material difference for recruiting or not.
2019 is only gonna have 1 or 2 openings most likely so we're going to presumably be pretty selective with who we take. Probably won't be a "recruiting bump" per se but those 1 or 2 players will probably be pretty highly ranked
Remember that even the Beilein lottery picks needed a year to learn the system and develop enough to have breakout seasons.
Begs the question how would someone like a Marvin Bagley or a Bates-Diop do as a freshmen in Beilein’s system? Could they play the Wagner 5-role right away? Or rather be a gigantic GRIII with more usage?
I'm not saying we're gonna get 1 or 2 top 20 recruits, but I'm guessing we'd be taking guys that are at least in the top 100 or we would have to really like them. So far, Beilien seems to be doing just that: offering the top guys and people in the top 100
Lots of snark on here, but I think it will help this time around.
Mostly for two reasons:
1) The external environment has changed some, and it's not quite the shady free for all it was at the Kentucky's and Lousiville's of the world. Michigan will not be the extreme outlyer it was in the past. Nothing is pure, but I would bet that Villanova recruiting is closer to Michigan recruiting than Kentucky one-and-done recruiting.
2) JB has shown that you will not be locked into just one style of play as a recruit. Unlike the perception around 2013, JB has shown that he has a well rounded scheme that lets players slash to the rim, post up, play defense, etc. It's not a rigid "Princeton" system that was still the narrative among media types even as late as 2013.
People may have questioned a guy like Charles Matthews coming here in the past, but nobody would question it now.
The next time around, a 4/5-star guy like that may come here directly in the first place instead of transferring here.
Hoppinstance
This is a rather simplistic view of recruiting. First of all, we have a top 5 class next year, which correct me if I'm wrong means that the incoming freshmen in our top 5 class were in 7th or 8th grade when we made the 2013 finals. That's not a bump to you?
Second, we made the finals again this year with your "bubcus".
Third, MSU had a few one and dones the last two years (I'm including Bridges even though he came back), and they were hot trash.
I think the basketball program is doing just fine, tyvm.