Snowflakes thread for officiating
I don’t blame our loss on anything but our lack of execution and TCU playing a fantastic game. With that said… we may as well have one thread for discussing the calls at pivotal moments that had a big impact on the game. Imagine the momentum change had that touchdown not been taken away. And It would have taken “courage” for the official to throw the targeting flag. But that’s his job.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^
During the targeting review, the ref covered his mouth when talking to the other official. Never seen that before. Felt he didn't want his words shared, as it was most likely: "I don't want to call this but that isn't part of the rules"
December 31st, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^
1 billion% targeting
December 31st, 2022 at 8:27 PM ^
Mods please delete. Got beat to the post.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:28 PM ^
Pricks!
December 31st, 2022 at 8:29 PM ^
-Wrong spot on the turnover that shorted Michigan 2 yards led to...
-Michigan's TD being wrongly overturned (Michigan lost by 6 so ya it kinda matters)
- On TCU's last drive the WR's hand was out of bounds which should have stopped the clock. This would have saved a Michigan timeout.
- Targeting that clearly was and replay officials refused to follow the rules
4 game changing plays officials got wrong
Could Michigan have played better? Yes, no doubt. However, this reoccurring theme of Michigan getting jobbed by officials in major sporting events is getting old.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:37 PM ^
I concur
December 31st, 2022 at 8:40 PM ^
State the TCU bad calls.
I'll wait.
Been there. Done this.
(Edit: I mean this as once again we seem to be on the shit side of all of the 50/50 calls...everything TCU got penalized for was...a penalty.). We beat ourselves yet had to once again battle more than 11 players.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:49 PM ^
Go ahead, list the big calls that changed the game against TCU. I'll wait.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:17 PM ^
Doesn’t help that once again there is BIAS in a big game…..sec ref crew with a 2015 osu grad. That good enough for you. Beginning of the game multiple holding no calls on their o line. Want a hand to face No call? Can bring up on review. Bias in sport, and in politics makes life suck
December 31st, 2022 at 8:58 PM ^
I can name two. The incredibly soft roughing the passer right before the end of the half leading to the long Moody FG. The non-catch on the first play of the last Michigan TD drive.
It was a terribly officiated game, but TCU had roughly double the penalty yards in the game.
December 31st, 2022 at 10:09 PM ^
How about he TCU intentional grounding that was not called? He threw it at an offensive linemen. They never even showed a replay of it. The ball never made it back to the line of scrimmage. JJ on the other hand was called for grounding with 2 receivers in the vicinity.
December 31st, 2022 at 11:30 PM ^
I believe that was a catch. Receiver had control. Ball can touch the ground and still be a catch. (Replay would have been ok)
December 31st, 2022 at 9:02 PM ^
We had a catch that didn't get reviewed at all that might not have been a catch, and I think at least we got a roughing the passer called on them that wasn't really a roughing the passer.
Nothing that is even nearly as egregious as the simple fact that they decided the knee was down outside the endzone before the ball was even touched, and that they could ignore the fact the the first contact between the ball and the receiver was already over the plane of the goal line.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:40 PM ^
On the TCU play, his forward progress was stopped inbounds well before he was pushed out of bounds. I don't have a problem with that call.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:48 PM ^
Then the whistle should have been blown sooner, which it was not.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:37 PM ^
Then the whistle should have been blown sooner, which it was not.
Like it or not that is not the rule. If a player is pushed backwards and then knocked out of bounds it is ALWAYS forward progress and in bounds
December 31st, 2022 at 10:10 PM ^
He wasn't pushed backwards. He landed on top of the turned and rolled out of bounds before any body part had touched down in bounds.
December 31st, 2022 at 11:21 PM ^
Tell me you don’t know the rules, without telling me you don’t know the rules
December 31st, 2022 at 8:40 PM ^
On the TCU play, his forward progress was stopped inbounds well before he was pushed out of bounds. I don't have a problem with that call.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:31 PM ^
We gave up two pick 6s and only only lost by a TD. We outgained them and their QB played like ass. The reversed TD + TOs was the difference.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:41 PM ^
This is how I see it too. I will say, and emphatically so, that there was no way the Wilson TD should have been overturned. You might guess he was down, but there was no 100% sure view. Should have stood as called.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:52 PM ^
Guessing shouldn't even be a thing. It bobbled briefly and clearly became a possession within the endzone. It's baffling. And will haunt for years..
December 31st, 2022 at 9:20 PM ^
Preaching to the choir my man
December 31st, 2022 at 11:31 PM ^
Hurt for years
January 1st, 2023 at 8:02 AM ^
That play is exhibits A-Z on why replay should sometimes be watched in real speed instead of entirely in slow motion. Everything looks like possession when shown frame by frame. Clearly he didn’t establish possession when viewed in normal speed. It was not conclusive. Call stands. Nope
December 31st, 2022 at 8:32 PM ^
I'm just not going to blame this on the officiating. That call on the Wilson TD was wrong, obviously ... but we had the ball first down on the one. Blaming them for us not scoring on that drive is ... not owning our own fuck-ups. And we have to at least acknowledge the lunacy of that roughing-the-passer call, without which we're not in a position for that end-of-first half field goal.
TCU had more than twice the penalty yardage we did.
I'm not saying the refs were perfect, or that they didn't blow some big calls. They obviously did. And yeah, I thought it was targeting when I saw it live!
But the refs did not put up 51 points on this Michigan team, and it's really fucking boring to see this board blame the referees on every game we lose. TCU outplayed us.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:35 PM ^
The play was a TD and incorrectly called No TD. UM never should have had to run another play on that drive.
Refs should not be excused for not doing their jobs.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:38 PM ^
Most teams don’t have to score their TDs twice.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:52 PM ^
TCU had twice the penalty yardage because they committed obvious pass interference penalties @ 15yds per clip. The only questionable TCU penalty was the roughing the passer call.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:55 PM ^
Yep. Shit. Forgot about that one. That was THE bad call against TCU.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:24 PM ^
Who cares how many penalties were called on TCU vs Michigan...such a lazy take. The Wilson TD reversal took 7 pts off the board - period and end of story.
December 31st, 2022 at 11:38 PM ^
TCU defense was overly aggressive. They were told to grab and hold and interfere and make the refs throw the flag. Watch the replays. DBs holding a lot but if the ball wasn’t thrown their way it was ok. TCU plays to get penalized. Was any penalty not legit? The roughing the passer was a makeup for a blast JJ got earlier. Maybe should not have been called. Similar hit was not called on Michigan.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:32 PM ^
Shouldn’t take any courage to do your job and call a clear penalty a penalty. Fuck the refs and anybody who doesn’t call them out. They get sweat with being terrible because nobody holds them accountable.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:46 PM ^
Refs are pretty much immune from lawsuits. I think safety or injury is an exception. A concussion that was a result of that play could be the basis for a suit. Someone tied to the program would have to be absolutely nuts to sue a ref though.
Someone like barstool should start doing stats on refs, analyzing/criticizing the way they do players and coaches, and open betting lines on calls
December 31st, 2022 at 9:39 PM ^
A concussion as a result of the play couldn't be the basis for a suit. At a minimum you need an injury that was a result of not calling the targeting. I'm having trouble constructing a set of facts that could get you there--there's a reason refs don't get sued for their on-field work.
Bigsoccer.com has really good ref threads during major events, populated by lots of professional referees. Does anyone do anything similar for football?
December 31st, 2022 at 8:34 PM ^
Adding in the Illegal Grounding & Kickoff return penalties that were called on us and not TCU. Atrocious reffing, but we had plenty of chances to win this game.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:36 PM ^
Michigan, still 0-for-forever on replays. It doesn’t matter what the screen shows. They will justify what they wanted to see.
We made lots of mistakes, but minus some terrible replay work, we still win an ugly game.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:18 PM ^
Yep. The proverbial “we didn’t deserve to win,” but actually despite all our own screwups, we also made enough plays to win notwithstanding everything, except the calls that take points off the board. That’s how I see it
Also, by the way, there was an egregious helmet to helmet hit on their long punt return — not in the play probably, but that should have come back -15 on them too
December 31st, 2022 at 8:40 PM ^
Did anyone figure out if the ohio grad ref was the one that spotted the ball wrong?
December 31st, 2022 at 8:47 PM ^
Long pass to Bell at start of second half looked like it should have been marked at four not six because Bell landed on DB, they settled for a FG, maybe they punch it if they start two yards closer.
December 31st, 2022 at 8:47 PM ^
One that I never heard mentioned was the long throw to Bell. He clearly landed on the defended and rolled off at the 3. The official spotted the ball at the 6????
December 31st, 2022 at 8:58 PM ^
As I have stated in previous posts: Why are there sec officials reffing a game that affects who the sec will play in the future? I am not sure but I think Georgia would rather play TCU than a rematch with Michigan.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:01 PM ^
Wilson scored, but also don’t get cute and try a quick handoff to your LB playing RB. How about you give it to your 5 star RB or let your athletic 5 star QB do something?
Second pick 6–it looked like Loveland was being held. Regardless, they had chances to get stops after that. They just didn’t get enough. They Knowled themselves on defense.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:06 PM ^
Terrible but not really game changing. JJ fumbling the handoff away was the real killer!
December 31st, 2022 at 9:15 PM ^
The officiating was pretty rough. It's rare that a replay review directly takes an obvious TD off the board, and that poor judgment call is then extremely magnified by a fumble on the next play. If Mullings had not coughed the ball up, it's a non-factor. And then the game ends up being a 1-score game. Oi vay
The refs also seemed to imply an already very fluid intentional grounding rule differently to Duggan and to JJ. Duggan was allowed to spike it into the grass with only linemen around him, while JJ needed to apparently make an accurate pass on the run to avoid grounding. I think JJ's was borderline (at worst), but the rule was applied inconsistently.
I also think there were several really awful spots by the refs. The INT by Moore and the very last TCU play where they were given "4th and 1" (and ultimately punted anyway after playing jump-offsides-chicken) when it should've been maybe 4th and 3.
TCU had more penalty yardage, but it seemed the high leverage stuff was not in UM's favor.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:48 PM ^
This comparison of which team had more called penalties or penalty yardage is useless. Since when do penalties need to be called evenly across teams. Consistent, yes but not one for one.
With the exception of a weak at best roughing the passer penalty, all of the penalties actually called on TCU were blindingly obvious and correct.
December 31st, 2022 at 11:42 PM ^
Yes and yes. TCU was holding on offense and defense downfield all day. They were daring the refs to throw the flag.
December 31st, 2022 at 9:31 PM ^
The touchdown incorrectly taken away and our subsequent inability to score, which in turn affected the momentum of the game, is unfortunately reminiscent of another eerily similar sequence of events. Last year. In east Lansing.