(Slightly OT?) A UM bachelor’s degree yields 22% more in wages than U.S. median, according to national study.
For the record, I'm not a Michigan grad (just a lifelong sports fan who grew up near Ann Arbor), however I thought this was a really interesting study.
Lots of interesting takeaways in the article, including a database you can explore, but some of the more interesting tidbits IMO:
- The median salary for UM bachelor’s grads five years after graduation is $61,099.The US median for that category is $50,000 (in 2016)
- Ten years after graduation, the median income of UM graduates rises to more than $85,000
- Engineering physics and business administration graduates from UM saw the highest payoffs after five years, at $116,679 and $92,549, respectively.
- Neurobiology and neurosciences degrees yielded considerably less, at $30,584
- School of Kinesiology (the program most football players are enrolled in), career earnings wildly vary from less than $20,000 to more than $100,000
- The average salary for two of the school’s biggest programs - movement science and sports management - is between $40,000 and $45,000
I'm curious how that could play into recruiting.
Link:
https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2019/11/how-much-is-a-university-of-michigan-degree-worth.html
November 6th, 2019 at 1:47 PM ^
Huge if true.
I have a UM undergrad degree and earn like 8x the US median, so there must be some truth here.
November 6th, 2019 at 1:51 PM ^
Did you have to take much in loans?
I know it is becoming more commonplace to take core classes at a cheaper school and then transfer in to Ann Arbor for the stuff that matters.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:04 PM ^
The ultimate trick is to try and transfer from UM Dearborn/Flint, because 100% of credits transfer, a friend of mine did this and made it to A2 after soph year i think
November 6th, 2019 at 2:09 PM ^
Transfer from Mott Community College and take classes that are guaranteed to matriculate
November 6th, 2019 at 2:26 PM ^
Also works, my friend chose UMD bc he wanted to be able to put UM for all 4 years on his resume. This doesn't matter tho, just his personal preference
November 6th, 2019 at 2:09 PM ^
There is a list that shows comparable classes to take at each school if you plan on transferring. I planned on transferring to UM from my first day in college, so I made sure every class would transfer before signing up. Worked out perfectly.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:08 PM ^
Nope, no loans after undergrad(in state, with parents paying). I did transfer in though, so the burden wouldn't have been too outrageous to begin with.
November 6th, 2019 at 7:10 PM ^
Still mingling with the likes of these poor sad sad bastards??!? Isn't there an MGoBlog Platinum version exclusive to decent wealthy folks like yourself. I'd hate for the unworthy filth on this blog to waste your precious time when you desire Michigan content. Side note: Have you hired a personal scrotum consultant? It's life changing if you can afford it and I know you can. My balls have never been so silky smooth. Of course having someone there to wash them at any time makes all the difference. My productivity has increased as well. Well worth the investment. I've even begun to dabble in poetry which I never used to have time for.
November 6th, 2019 at 7:34 PM ^
Have I also mentioned that my penis is above average?
November 6th, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
I'm broke... spare change?
November 6th, 2019 at 3:09 PM ^
For real, me too. Guess that;s what I get for being a poor student and then changing industries a few times, ultimately landing in nonprofitland. But I'm gonna hit that lotto any day now!
November 6th, 2019 at 3:43 PM ^
But consider the dollar value of the fact your nonprofit work may be substantially more meaningful, fulfilling, and purpose-driven than the national median. You already hit the Lotto.
November 6th, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
For full scholarship recipients, nice. For regular kids who have to take loans? It may not be worth the cost of attendance. $120k of debt for $60k salary?
November 6th, 2019 at 1:52 PM ^
Does it really cost that much? My wife has a doctorate and her total student debt out of school was $180,000, and grad school was more expensive than undergrad by a lot.
November 6th, 2019 at 1:57 PM ^
My youngest is waiting on entry! About $30-33k per year for housing/tuition.
My eldest found the cost of attendance the same no matter where she was accepted...about the same price per year (Alabama, Purdue, Michigan Tech, Kalamazoo).
November 6th, 2019 at 2:39 PM ^
Yes, when my youngest was choosing which school to attend, it worked out mostly the same out of pocket whether he was out of state at Michigan, out of state at Clemson, in state at Virginia, VT or William and Mary.
If you meet the academic standards for several universities and they want you, they all seem to arrive at the same number for cost of attendance.
November 6th, 2019 at 7:19 PM ^
Someone agreed to reproduce with you and more than once?! Jesus.
November 6th, 2019 at 8:14 PM ^
She was drunk the first time. Upvoted you to offset somebody who negged you.
November 6th, 2019 at 10:07 PM ^
I negged him to offset your upvote.
November 7th, 2019 at 7:28 AM ^
You are very naughty.
November 6th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^
Out of state is $70k per year full stop.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:00 PM ^
My grad degree from Central was $24k fwiw (tuition only)
November 7th, 2019 at 11:29 AM ^
Are you out of state? UofM tuition for Engineering is ~$14,000 in state and ~$26,000 out of state for a full academic year. LSA is $11,000 and $24,000 respectively.
I am really scared to put 4 kids through college. I will be working full time their junior and senior years filling out as many scholarship forms as possible.
November 7th, 2019 at 12:16 PM ^
What years were those costs?
Engineering in the 2019-2020 school year is $16,000-$21,000 in-state (depending on how many credits you already have) or $51,000-$59,000 out-of-state. LSA slightly less.
https://ro.umich.edu/sites/default/files/2019-09/FeeBulletin-2019-2020.pdf
November 6th, 2019 at 3:37 PM ^
She didn't get a stipend?
November 6th, 2019 at 1:53 PM ^
I feel thats a problem for almost every school, and why more and more people are starting out in community college or going to other schools.
I'm sorry if I'm boasting a bit in this, but I grew up wanting to go to Michigan, but when I got some scholarship money from other schools, it was a no brainer for me to go elsewhere.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:27 PM ^
Nowadays, I think what you plan to study is so much more critical. Do I really need a history degree from Michigan if I have to take on debt to do it? If, as the OP stated, you are in engineering and earnings prospects are higher, I can rationalize that.
If I were doing it over again, I would want the Michigan name for a degree that would get me a job immediately and go elsewhere if I needed a graduate degree.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:41 PM ^
"history degree from Michigan" Ha! I resemble that remark. I did alright with that degree. That said, the hyper inflation of college costs had not yet happened when I was there.
November 6th, 2019 at 1:57 PM ^
Uh, yes? Do you even math?
If the alternative is the U.S. median -- $31k was the most recent figure I could find from 30 seconds of Google -- then the debt might not be paid off, but the amount has been easily eclipsed by the difference in total earnings within five years. Five years, out of a worker's productive lifetime of about forty, give or take.
I know median isn't a be-all end-all and there are things like inflation to consider, but if anything it makes this oversimplified point excessively conservative: extrapolated over forty years, an annual near-$30k difference amounts to over $1 million. (In reality, the more educated individual's wages will tend to diverge from the median with accelerated increases in income, making the difference far larger, but I don't have those numbers in front of me. Point still stands.) The combined principal & interest of the student loans won't be anywhere near that, nor whatever head start in earnings an 18-year-old gets by entering the work force immediately. A U of M degree, at least, really is worth something.
But I mean if a student is going to scoff at that, then odds are they can't get into U of M anyway.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:01 PM ^
Not sure who you're scoffing about but the point is the cost of attendance.
If it makes little sense to take on debt like that for the median salary and Michigan's is higher, it makes even less sense to do so at another school.
If people have the means and there is no or little debt, that's one thing. Otherwise, I would be strongly in the camp of core classes cheaper and then go to finish where you want.
And if you were scoffing at me, I am a graduate from Michigan.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:12 PM ^
Remember, UMich students from households that earn less than $65k get tuition entirely free nowadays. And there are scholarships up to like $100k.
If someone's parents earn like $200k+, they should be paying for college. Unless they are terrible with money.
November 6th, 2019 at 5:43 PM ^
. . . depends on how many kids those parents have.
November 6th, 2019 at 6:03 PM ^
assets below $50k
November 6th, 2019 at 9:09 PM ^
Well that's one hell of a caveat. I must admit, that's disappointing to hear considering the "under 65k" part is what the university has loudly boasted about.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:16 PM ^
That last sentence speaks to a deeper truth and points out a correlation/causation issue within this topic.
Basically, do U of M grads make more money because they have a U of M degree, or are the types of people with the talent and ambition to go to Michigan also the types of people who tend to make more money anyways?
I think right out of college the brand of your degree matters a lot for your starting salary. When you start to extrapolate out to 5, 10 years and beyond, the correlation between having a Michigan Degree and an above average salary is still strong, but that long after graduation people aren't being paid more because they have a U of M degree, they're getting paid more because the kinds of people who have the talent and work ethic to get a U of M degree in the first place are going to be more valuable in the workplace.
TL;DR people who are ambitious and talented enough to go to Michigan are also ambitious and talented enough to make more money than the average person.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:30 PM ^
Playing devil's advocate here, but it could also be that the correlation 5-10 years out is a function of that first position which was a function of the degree. Could be as much the track someone was started on as anything else.
November 6th, 2019 at 7:34 PM ^
Yeah, it's literally impossible to unpack all of that from a correlation/causation POV.
A U-M degree will open more doors (for an entry-level person) than a regional school.
But while the U-M degree may get one in, one has to perform once on the job.
U-M students, as you said, tend to be more ambitious and talented too (in the aggregate).
Et cetera.
---------
I'm thinking now about 5 people I admire in my professional life, and where they went to school for undergrad.
They range the full spectrum. From lower-tier regional school (Northern Kentucky) to Ivy (Cornell) to AAU-level public school (University of Buffalo) to private religious (Biola) to urban branch campus (Nebraska-Omaha).
If you're good, you will make it in your career, regardless of where you started out. Perhaps a wage-gap early for folk from lesser-pedigree schools, but it will even out eventually.
November 6th, 2019 at 4:04 PM ^
This is definitely true for college in general. Individual circumstances vary, but on average it is a great deal.
That said, I think the more relevant debate is whether the cost vs payoff for a UM degree is better or worse than a student's other college options.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:31 PM ^
@fatherfisch, this was my predicament as well during the college selection process. Out of state tuition at the time to UofM was ~$42k per year, which probably would've equated to ~$175k by the time I finished undergrad. Parents are the very definition of middle class so there was no FAFSA kick-in and they sure as hell weren't footing the bill for me to go out of state to college (spoiler: they didn't foot the in-state bill either).
All told, I did my undergrad and masters at the same school and my student loan debt for both was roughly $80k. If my math checks out, I should have the entirety of my loan obligation satisfied before my 31st bday in June.
Bottom line, I'd be PISSED making $60k a year with a pair of Michigan degrees in my field.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:47 PM ^
I transferred to uofm from Oakland community college. It cost me more to go to CC than Uofm. Scholarships are nice.
November 6th, 2019 at 3:40 PM ^
a +1 to help pay your fare back from Bolivia, Gooch
November 6th, 2019 at 1:50 PM ^
Not OT at all. Being able to put University of Michigan on my resume/linkedin has been immeasurably helpful to my career, as I'm sure many others on this blog can attest to firsthand.
It's also what keeps me sane when I think about the last 15 years of football vs OSU and last 10ish years vs MSU lol
November 6th, 2019 at 2:48 PM ^
Heresy I know, but before starting at Michigan in 1979, I didn't know who the fuck Bo was.
November 6th, 2019 at 7:49 PM ^
Don't feel bad.I didn't even know Michigan had a football team until I went up there for school. I couldn't have cared less at the time and was only going because of academics.
November 6th, 2019 at 7:37 PM ^
Exactly. When I wear my UM gear, I'm more proud of our academics than our athletic teams.
November 6th, 2019 at 1:54 PM ^
The money is in skilled trades now...millwrights at some of the auto makers are working as much OT as they want (in truck/suv plants) pulling in 150-200k a year.
Tradespeople (HVAC, plumbers, electricians) who are good at what they do have portable skills and can pull down nearly 100k...more if they want to start their own company.
If I was young and starting out I would go probably learn HVAC, learn the business somewhere then start my own shop.
In manufacturing, the UM brand is good but if I'm hiring an accountant (for instance) I wouldn't pay more for a UM degree than I would for one from Oakland University. Certain sectors (finance, healthcare) are different obviously or if a school has a well known discipline (MSU logistics for instance).
November 6th, 2019 at 2:02 PM ^
Absolutely!
That is an awesome way to go.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:04 PM ^
My thoughts are exactly what you mentioned in your last paragraph. In terms of STEM and some business fields, the core education you get from Michigan is likely far better than most schools.
However in other fields, I'm not convinced that the core education that you get from Michigan is much better than other schools. In those fields, the real benefit of a Michigan degree is the connections.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:11 PM ^
I agree with almost all of this, but I think this point slightly misses the mark:
"but if I'm hiring an accountant (for instance) I wouldn't pay more for a UM degree than I would for one from Oakland University."
The point is not that an employer is going to pay more for a Michigan degree in the same role. But if your hypothetical Michigan and Oakland grads are up for the same position, it's reasonable to think the Michigan grad is viewed a bit more favorably and is more likely to get the job (in a vacuum), leaving the Oakland grad to take his/her next best option which might pay a bit less.
Long way of saying that I believe the Michigan degree can still be worth something even in those more generic scenarios that may not be in a specific industry where the Michigan brand is particularly strong.
November 6th, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
Was gonna say I'm a frigging psych major and make pretty good money (I went into advertising) while UM has a top psych program, the brand made my career