Per Schlissel: UM will not have football this fall if students not on campus
WSJ article just out this morning has a discussion with UM president Mark Schlissel (pointing out that he is also a formally trained immunologist) - he believes a decision will be made in the next few weeks, but if students are not back on campus neither will football.
Massive institutions willing to set BILLIONS of dollars on fire, because it’s what’s right.
But mouth-breathing morons just canNOT stay home from the bar, because fReEdOm!!!!!1!!! or something.
I'm frustrated that people aren't even wearing masks. If k-12 schools can't open in the fall because people can't wear a damn mask when they go out in contact with strangers I'm going to be so pissed.
I see it as the mark of a sociopath. Not wearing a mask in public places tells me that person doesn't care if the people around them live or die.
It's depressing how many people are like that.
There is a good argument there about masks, but that doesn't bother me nearly as much as how many people I observe doing other reckless behavior in public (just as one example, the number of people observed smoking weed while driving since the legalization push was successful - not a day goes by in decent weather where I don't see -and smell - at least one or two just in my neighborhood, which is a quiet little middle-class part of a mid-size city).
Fair point. Even being pro mask and pro weed I don't disagree with you.
I'm not all that concerned about someone who has a toke or two in the same way I'm not concerned about someone who has one drink, but there is some really powerful weed out there and people having a lot more than a few hits of it.
I'm still more concerned about the mask at the moment because how spreading it to one person spreads it to more (or hundreds, depending on whom that person interacts with), compared to someone high driving and the low risk they (a) hit someone/wreck and (b) do so at a high enough speed to maim/kill. Nonetheless, I agree with you that high driving is an overlooked problem.
I bet that weed smells great too.
Driving while high is really an apples and oranges comparison to driving drunk. People shouldn't be doing either, but being drunk is much more impairing and dangerous.
Edit, added link.
https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/news/a52373/driving-high-vs-driving-drunk/
https://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/news/a52373/driving-high-vs-driving-drunk/
There's the clickable form, and, as I just saw your post and haven't yet read the Esquire article, my feeling are this: Yes, while drunk driving is worse, they're both bad. Having been a college student back in the 70s when the drinking age was 18 and pot smoke was constantly in the air on campus, I've had experience doing both and then drove. Not proud of it but that chapter of my life was put to rest well before I got married and settled down and had kids.
The bottom line is that with either (and for many drivers, both), you're still impaired and a danger to others while driving.
Covid, OTOH, endangers layer upon layer upon layer of your contacts, whether you've been careless or malicious or ignorant or narcissistic, or any combination of the above. So yeah, in that way, potentially far far worse.
Don't blame legalization. People were plenty stupid before & recriminalization won't suddenly make people act responsibly. It's more likely that you notice it more since legalization.
I do not blame legalization for it happening in general (people can always make bad decisions), but I will absolutely blame the legalization drive for exacerbating the problem.
Just like with drunken driving: the rate of occurrence increased dramatically after prohibition ended since alcohol was readily available and legally acceptable to the public again.
And every time I see people wearing masks in public, I see a bunch of fucking lemmings that are too stupid to think for themselves.
But hey, it's a free country, you go right back on mask patrol. Wait, excuse me...face covering patrol, because all that is required is an "old t-shirt", which is a fuckin' joke.
60 Minutes had a story about Marine training. All the recruits were wearing masks. Are they a bunch of fucking lemmings? Take your tough guy act elsewhere. It’s not helping anything.
Soldiers are placing American flags on graves at Arlington Cemetery this weekend. All the soldiers are wearing masks. Maybe you should rethink your bravado.
This is legitimately one of the stupidest retorts I can think of. They're wearing masks because their commanding officers forced them to wear masks, not because they think they're effective.
>They're wearing masks because their commanding officers forced them to wear masks, not because they think they're effective.<
as an former EX NCO US ARMY GULF WAR 1 type...no one NEVER forced me do ANYTHING. But an 'order' to an civilian type might sound like forcing someone do something against their will? Learn protocol sir...you'll learn alot
Remind us of the consequence of disobeying an order, though...
Says the guy with a freemason logo as their avatar.
33 degree master manipulators
And why did their COs give that order? Because the military wants to protect its strongest asset, the health of its men in arms, and actually has some discipline and ability to think beyond a present mild personal inconvenience to consider the long-term well being of the entire unit.
Sounds like you could use a good CO.
Um, being made to do something by a drill sergeant is quite possibly the literal worst example of what people do and don't do in a free society. Yes, they ARE a bunch of fucking lemmings, because life is miserable enough as a Marine recruit and not being a lemming, i.e., not following orders, is the surest way to make it worse.
Or maybe people wearing masks are just using their critical thinking skills and aren't being sheep like people who think not wearing a mask to exercise "muh rights" is more important than protecting others during a public health crisis. It's not political. It's common fucking sense
Or people wearing masks are the sheep. Don't wear masks they don't do any good...a month later wear masks...wait.
I always love this sort of grand standing because it uses strong stuff like "think for yourself" and "lemmings/sheep" but there's no substance behind it. What has thinking for yourself gotten you? Is the disease a hoax? Do you have some other information showing masks are not helpful in spreading the disease? Or are you just pissed off and have nothing of substance beyond that?
There is no substance behind "think for yourself"? Good grief, it all starts there. Cogito ergo sum.
It is the strongest argument. If you keep saying data and science and experts but don't look at the data yourself then I can't help you.
Thinking for yourself isn’t always the best option. Especially when the topic at hand is complicated and takes years of study to truly understand. At that point, appealing to authority isn’t a fallacy, it’s the most logical course of action.
Every time you drive a car, fly an airplane, cross over a bridge, go to the doctor, or do all sorts of other mundane things you are deferring to the authority of experts. Division of labor is what has made civilization. I can go look at the data but without the expertise to interpret it properly I’m best off allowing experts to do that for me.
just put on a mask, dumbass.
Semper Fi, you do know what that means, right?
I swear, all of you people who call individuals who "think for yourselves" are the dumbest, most conspiracy-addled weirdos around. Yes, please tell me about the voluminous research you did pertaining to disease spreading by viewing a number of Youtube videos.
Thinking for yourself is now considered conspiracy related? ...... holy shit
Maybe it's just plain common sense ?
I've seen plenty of real doctors and health experts give valid reasons why the masks do little good and how they can actually make things WORSE.
Sorry but gas lighting people and being condescending wont work anymore. Figure out a new strategy to try and manipulate people.
What doesn't get talked about is the real reason people like this don't believe in masks or even the virus. By large numbers, it disproportionately effects brown and black people, that is the reason they don't care.
that? That's your big takeaway? I feel so bad for you I truly do...There have been any number of points, arguments, good, bad, or ugly...that's just...wow.
You must have a really big penis
How coincidental that a bunch of far-right pundits started spewing the “sheep and lemmings” bullshit this weekend.
It’s just so predictable now - expect a tsunami of dumb 2-3 days after a Hannity earthquake.
You’re an embarrassment to the Marine Corps.
You’re an embarrassment to humanity. Wash your mouth out with soap.
You cannot stop a virus. It's going to spread. All the magical masks do is decide when people are going to get infected. It's nothing but theater, but you're calling me a sociopath for refusing to wear a mask. I'm also refusing to go anywhere. So tell me who's the sociopath? The person who goes out with a mask, infecting others, or me, who refuses to wear a mask and so stays home?
Look, if any of these measures stopped transmission, the virus would have been contained by now. We've been under virtual house arrest as a nation for two months, but the infection counts keep going up.
The number of confirmed cases isn't actually increasing nationally, it's basically stabilized around 20,000 per day (following an earlier peak of 30K per day). This is in a context of us drastically increasing the amount of testing we're doing. The proportion of tests that are positive has steadily decreased nationally (drastically so in Michigan) over the past six weeks.
I do agree that we're all going to be exposed to the virus at some point or another, but face coverings do help reduce the viral load you encounter, which appears to be a significant factor as to what your outcome will be. If you're exposed to a smaller amount of the virus, your immune system seems to be more able to fight it off. That's where the masks come in.
I live in Austin, where we've had a mask rule in effect for 6 weeks. Cases keep getting discovered.
Also, you can't really trust any of the numbers coming out of the CDC right now, because -- for some reason -- they're conflating viral tests and antibody tests. So, a falling infection rate doesn't necessarily mean anything. (It's incredibly frustrating).
If either masks or distancing measures were effective, for a disease where most people may not be infectious after 11 days, transmission should have ground to a halt by now.
You keep commenting as though everyone has actually followed the orders. From day one till now people have been disregarding everything so to make statements about how masks and distancing don't work because cases keep going up, doesn't actually make any sense. Do you have a study or verified location where literally everyone followed social distancing guidelines and wore masks, and cases still went up? Cause I know first hand that where I live people let their kids go to other people's house on play dates, have lawn hangouts not anywhere close to 6 feet a part and our cases are going up. It's not that masks and guidelines don't work, it's that enough people are not following them that it continues to spread.
You can just scroll these comments and get a sense of how people have refused to care about anyone other than themselves because they wrongly believe their rights are being taken away, or they saw on some news show that only tells them what they want to hear that it's fake, or not as bad as they say, or just a flu, or whatever other false narrative they want to take.
I would agree with you if people actually listened. The problem is that this is a ongoing issue that will require changes in approaches and new guidance as more is learned. What they think works now may not work as well or something may work better in the future. Following the current guidelines. It's not hard.
The wonderful either or argument. There is usually other options such as if you stay home don’t wear a mask, if you go out wear a mask.
The engineers on my team used to pull this same crap. You can either have this or that, you pick. They always got pissed off when I reminded them of option C, scrap the program.
I'm betting turnover on your engineering staff was a continual problem. I wonder why...
It was not. Nice try though.
The engineers were involved in the market research process beginning to end so our team was a highly desirable team to be on. Even engineers can be lazy sometimes when working on long multi-year projects. Part of my role was to remind them to always deliver to what the customer needs, not what you alone think you can do.
They didn’t always like me, but they liked working on successful projects and being able to show they pushed beyond their preconceived limitations to invent new ways of doing things.
Idiots like him are the reason why my company requires engineering managers be promoted from regular engineers.
Good luck with that. Our engineers became much happier when they started getting good managers, not just promoting the engineers with the most seniority or patents.
Nobody is asking you to wear a mask inside your own house. So if you stay inside all day for 6 weeks, good. But if some people aren't following the rules AND they are not congregating in areas, then absolutely you'll see cases increase. It's not like cities can stop people from driving around to other areas and spreading/contracting the disease.
I actually agree with this in some points. Certainly we should be taking necessary precautions, yet the virus is still going to be transmitted to a degree. Let's expand on that. At some point in the future we will all be back out in the open, as well the virus will have run its course. The best way to go about those two points is what should be discussed.
I'll start with two basis for my opinion:
1. The virus will run its course eventually, we actually have say in how long that takes, whether or not a vaccine is ever found.
2. While lock down was certainly necessary, its impossible to sustain. No government can afford 25 trillion dollars in stimulus so everybody can just sit at home for a year while every company in the world goes bankrupt.
3. As people have been shown to spread the disease asymptomatically, and to contract it more than once, I'd argue that reopening slowly prolongs the time it takes for the virus to run its course. Each reopening is another chance for it to make its rounds, and another chance to inadvertantly pass it to someone at-risk.
I'd counter the point made in the first comment that keeping universities closed for a long period of time is the right thing to do, and that opening en-masse to the healthy population could shorten the time it takes for the virus to die out. My biggest concern is that I'll contract it 8 months from now and give it to my mom, or someone else at-risk, and not know that I even had it, because it stayed in the population for 8 months instead of 3
I'm not saying that this theory is rock solid, but I do believe it is worth considering.
Slowing down the spread is extremely helpful. The goal is to prevent the virus from overwhelming the health care system.. Every step we take that that and lets people do Important things like: work, go to school is important. Masks can help with that. It is amazing that people don’t understand that protecting freedoms during a pandemic means doing common sense things to slow the spread of the virus so less draconian measures are not needed.
BlueinDC, flattening the curve has nothing to do with the virus running its course. Yes we flattened the spike but we now we don't have herd immunity, which is needed along with a vaccine. We will never have a 100% vaccinated public. I haven't had a flu shot in 30 years at least. I've only had a bad flu one time,2004. It was definitely a UR virus, dry cough from hell,fever, chills pretty nasty flu, lasted a week. Other than that I only get the common cold once a year. Haven't had a debilitating flu in 15 years so why get one now? And being essential I have stopped working through all this. I've been social distancing during flu season and washing my hands since that bad flu. CDC said to wash your hands throughout the day back in early 2000's while you were sick, so you don't keep infecting yourself. That 2003 flu was the first time I went to the cdc site for help, they couldnt say it enough about washing your hands while you are still sick helps recovery. Spit out whatever you cough up as well.
This will all be over soon. Some act like this was the first virus known to man.
I guess I don't understand the adamant nature of people refusing to wear masks. If you are able to stay home and not have to expose yourself in public, then great. You are certainly doing the right thing by refusing to go anywhere. Unfortunately, that isn't the reality for others and medical professionals everywhere are recommending wearing masks to help deter the spread. Is wearing a mask going to eradicate this disease? Of course not. I actually think the only people who claim that masks are "magic" are those who are against wearing them, but by almost all accounts: wearing a mask is helping slow the spread and doing good for our societies while simultaneously doing absolutely nothing to harm you.
People who are refusing to wear masks aren't improving their lives in any substantial manner, yet are sacrificing all potential benefits that professionals think can be gained. It's worse than just normal selfishness because there aren't even benefits to be gained.
"People who are refusing to wear masks aren't improving their lives in any substantial manner."
Why do you think they do it then?
I think that they think that they're improving their lives. You're different, and that's ok. But there are many, many people for whom not wearing a mask improves their lives. Refusal matches their values, it makes them happy - and therefore improves their lives.
That's all fine and dandy in many cases - the "do what makes you happy" stance, but when it comes to a pandemic, it's simply not. Based on my observations (which is in no way factual or all inclusive, though I feel generally encompasses the majority of reasons for people not wearing masks), it seems that people who are not wearing masks are doing so because: they feel their freedoms are being taken from them (which is just ridiculous), because it is recommended by the other political party than the one they consider themselves a part of, because they are generally a contrarian, or because it is uncomfortable. Not a single one of these reasons is justifiable if them choosing not to wear a mask infects even just one person.
A very sad part of this whole ordeal is that people won't end up knowing how much harm they as an individual have caused by their actions and will continue to act as selfish as ever in the future.