Recruiting grades so far

Submitted by TK on December 10th, 2019 at 11:48 AM

I’m a bit of a recruiting junkie so sorry that this is another recruiting post. I do think that this class is a little bit underrated so far. I listen to a lot of podcasts of recruiting sites and I’ve heard a lot of information on some of our current commits. So here is my thoughts on what we have committed so far.

QB: Inc. Johnson would’ve been a good bridge to McCarthy. Due to the circumstances it looks like we will probably end up with a project for this year. Not ideal but not entirely surprising given the circumstances.

RB: A-. Corum is shooting up the rankings, up to #67 on Rivals. He is the home run threat we have wanted for a while and also a surprisingly tough runner for his size. A perfect complement to our bruisers we already have. Garcia was incredibly productive and may or may not end up playing football for UM. 

WR: B+. Speed in space. Henning will make an immediate impact, Wilson has elite speed, and Dennis is a little guy with elite quickness. No true outside WR which will mean we should probably target a bigger WR in 2021.

TE: B.  Hibner is also shooting up The rankings and looks like a steal compared to when he first committed. Another TE who has size and speed. Not sure what Patterson’s status is.

OL: B. We had a great haul last year and have some more quality guys in this class. Zinter and Persi have both been mentioned as guys who might be better than their low 4* rating indicates, and center Attebery is a high 3* with a really good offer list.  Not sure what Mazzcuahs status is and we are still pursuing another OT.

DT: C-. This might be kind but it’s probably not time to panic. We have Hinton and Mazi from last year and some other young guys who could slide inside. Kris Jenkins Jr seems most likely to end up at DT from this class, but that’s about it. 2021 needs to have an elite haul. Good news is we appear to be in great shape for top 100 DT Rocco Spindler and in on several others. We will need a couple good ones.

DE: B. McGregor will be another Aidan Hutchinson and Rivals EJ Holland said Aaron Lewis was criminally underranked and could be one of our best defensive recruits. No elite pass rusher so that will need to be a 2021 priority.

LB: B+. Mullings could be a star, Wheeler is rated very highly by Rivals who says he will be multi year starter. Mohan isn’t ranked super highly but appears to be a good fit at viper and Savage is ranked #166 by Rivals. Holland really likes this group.

CB: C-. Seldon will be a good player, but probably will be a nickle corner. If we get DGW this goes up to a B. If we strike out, getting 2 high end corners in 2021 becomes a must.

S: A-. Underrated group. Morant is a stud, Moten is a great athlete who could be a viper. Paige Is a long, smooth athlete who can add muscle and become a very good safety.

 

carlos spicywiener

December 10th, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^

Spiritually DT feels like a F. Again, people are putting a lot on the shoulders of Hinton and Mazi. Don Brown continuing to bulk up SDE types and sliding them inside doesn't really hack it after the OSU game.

ldevon1

December 10th, 2019 at 12:06 PM ^

The issue that no one seems to realize is that Don Brown wants to run a 3-3-5 and I'm surprised no one has really noticed. Bigger faster safeties with cover skills in space has been the recruiting strategy this class, and they got em in spades. He ran that a majority of the time, with the exception of the goal line and short shortage situations. I believe he believes, he can mask his blitz packages better and hide his zone packages. The issue was Mettellus and Hudson had their worst games against the best teams because they didn't trust their teammates or just got caught peaking way to often. 

https://youtu.be/4SUJwd88E2U

 

joeyb

December 10th, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^

I agree with you. I've had literally the same thought about people not realizing what he's doing, but the problem is that the recruiting still does not match a 3-3-5 personnel. This thought usually comes about when people talk about firing Don Brown and/or Harbaugh and I think "Who are you going to get that is better?". I specifically went out and looked at top ranked defenses and they are all at P5 programs where the DCs are looking to move into HC roles. You might be able to pull someone from a program like Baylor, but look at what they run. A 3-4 with the OLBs being like a SAM and Viper and lots of attacking.

We hired a DC who knew how to slow down Urban Meyer's spread to run. Urban Meyer pivoted to an air raid and now we need to have a DC who can stop an air raid. How do other defenses stop an air raid? Answer: they don't, the outscore them. But, Baylor's defense can give us some insight into how you might slow them down and that's where Don Brown is clearly moving.

joeyb

December 10th, 2019 at 3:24 PM ^

With 3 down linemen, you need them to be able to hold their ground even more than with 4. You're standing up your WDE as a SLB a la Uche, which should leave you with the NT, 3-Tech, and Anchor. Going Anchor, Nose, Anchor or even Anchor, Nose, WDE means that instead of replacing the smallest guy with a close fit in a Sam, you're now replacing the DT with a SLB, which is a huge loss against teams with big OLs. Although, I suppose that some of our DTs are more natural DEs, so maybe this is more of a transition year than end result when we get to full 3-3-5.

Bo Harbaugh

December 10th, 2019 at 1:02 PM ^

This is the issue with UM coaching imo.  You can't run just a 3-3-5 or a 4-3 or a man press, or a brackets coverage.  He need personelle and preparation to run all of these schemes.

Wisconsin and OSU are two really good teams with completely different schemes. You need the horses to match up against who you are playing, AND, need the ability to adjust during the game if the current schemes aren't working.

When you recruit depth and talent at all positions you are best prepared to be multiple in how you play against these advanced offenses - many of which run different schemes - and you have the flexibility to confuse offenses by mixing up formations and schemes.

Even the most talented teams (Alabama, OSU, Clemson) are getting 40+ hung on them at times these days, as college QB's have become NFL ready by their junior years.  But more talent and more variety helps to mitigate the damage, and most importantly, a dominant defensive line (controlling the time that plays have to develop and making teams one dimensional) is the most important aspect of modern college defense.

ldevon1

December 10th, 2019 at 1:18 PM ^

 I agree with you, but I also believe that Don Brown knows more, or at least thinks he knows more about defenses than most people, and definitely more than any person on this blog. If you have a stud at the nose and a couple of more Aiden Hutchinson's to go along with a long armed fast players like Makari Paige and Dax Hill RJ Moten, long corners that are good in run support you can play more zone schemes, this defense is very versatile.   

jsquigg

December 10th, 2019 at 2:08 PM ^

Defensively we're caught between a rock and a hard place.  I've probably been overly critical of Don Brown, but it feels like they need to hire a defensive coordinator who can get better "Jimmies and Joes" at perhaps the expense of more diverse strategy.

I wouldn't be against a more basic defense that is more talented and fundamentally sound.

chunkums

December 10th, 2019 at 4:06 PM ^

It definitely seems realistic. This year we tried to run that stuff and got stoned against big teams because we didn't have the beefcake DT for it. Meanwhile, our ends seem like a good fit and the rest of the defense is very fast. Hopefully one of Hinton/Mazi can step up next season. If it's in a 3-3-5, that improvement could be huge.

Gentleman Squirrels

December 10th, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^

I hope Michigan goes after DT hard in the transfer portal. I heard they reached out to Michael Williams out of Stanford for an immediate role player. I hope they also go after Michael Thompson out of Oklahoma. They were recruiting him when he was coming out of high school and were at least in his top 5. They should also push for Van Fillinger. He’s a Michigan fan at a position of need and for some reason Michigan slow played him.

rainingmaize

December 10th, 2019 at 1:50 PM ^

Coming from an Oklahoma fan, I'm not sure you want Michael Thompson. I was really excited when he committed, but he hasn't panned out. There are OU coaches on the record saying that his best bet to see the field would be as an offensive lineman. OU had arguably the worst defense in the nation last year, and are losing 3 DT regulars after this year. Considering all of that, and Thompson couldn't even sniff the field on defense is more than concerning. 

bronxblue

December 10th, 2019 at 3:34 PM ^

I agree, but it's also been mentioned here and elsewhere that getting elite DTs out of HS is hard; there aren't that many of them and it's hard to tell how many translate to the college game when they can't just overpower guys.  A lot of these guys who turn into good DTs wind up being SDEs that get bulked up out of HS, and I think a lot of people are focusing too heavily on that OSU game as a sign that the tackles are terrible.  PSU and Wisconsin (the 2nd time) had solid rush performances against OSU but if you watch those games it was pretty clear (especially against PSU) that OSU wasn't having much trouble moving those guys around.  I'm sure there's a defensive tackle set out there that could consistently win at the point of attack against OSU but it's unreasonable to expect anyone to consistently have elite DTs via recruiting.  

My bigger concern is that Michigan is struggling to find elite corners.  That'll bite them in the ass way more than DT, in my opinion, because you can sorta scheme around mediocre DTs but slow corners get you killed.

UMinSF

December 10th, 2019 at 4:29 PM ^

I agree with this, bronxblue, to a certain extent.

The top SEC programs seem to recruit tons of huge DL guys - it's like an assembly line of DT's at Bama, Auburn, LSU, even Florida and Tennessee. The rest of the country seems to have to develop them ala Clemson, OSU, PSU and us.

As for corners, I totally agree. OSU beats us mostly with speed. We've done a good job recruiting at safety, but we need some super fast absurd athletes at CB and LB - and receivers on offense. Football is a game of speed and athleticism these days. 

Lakeyale13

December 10th, 2019 at 12:07 PM ^

Other than the obvious of the DT and CB situation, my main concern centers on QB and RB.

JH still has yet to recruit a QB and develop him into an above average / top three B10 QB.  That just boggles my mind and I think all of us would have lost a whole lot of money if we bet that would be the case 5 years after he was hired.

Furthermore, our RB situation is bad.  Our starting RB was viewed as having such little talent at the position that they moved him to LB to start out at Michigan.  Don't be naive and think that his talent on the field has propelled him to being our starter.  Haskins was moved back to RB from LB, not because his talent was so great, but that the other options talent was so low.

Charbonnet may blossom into an exceptional back.  But the reality of the situation is OSU's 3rd string RB is more talented than any we have on our roster currently.  We have nice / solid RB's but nothing exceptional.  Nothing special.  Nothing elite.  

Also, I do have to acknowledge the recruiting gods have not been kind to us at the RB position.  Via rankings, we have landed some really sought after backs, from Green to Isaac to Charbonnet.  Just none of them have turned into that star feature back other teams have to game plan for.  Hoping Blake can come in and be that difference maker.

CalifExile

December 10th, 2019 at 12:25 PM ^

Furthermore, our DE situation is bad.  Our starting DE was viewed as having such little talent at the position that they moved him to TE to start out at Michigan.  Don't be naive and think that his talent on the field has propelled him to being our starter.  Winovich was moved back to DE from TE, not because his talent was so great, but that the other options talent was so low.

CalifExile

December 10th, 2019 at 1:26 PM ^

You claimed that a player's position change is proof that he isn't good at the new position. That's a dumb argument. I'm surprised you don't let it go in the face of examples to the contrary. I'm not asserting that Haskins will end up having the same impact that Winovich did, just that the history of his position changes itself isn't evidence that he won't be good at the new position.

Lakeyale13

December 10th, 2019 at 1:47 PM ^

Maybe I made my point poorly.  I am simply saying that in Haskins specific case, not disputing the fact that other players have switched positions and had amazing careers is a fact, Haskins was asked to switch because the coaches weren't convinced they had enough talent at the RB position.  You don't ask a LB to try out at RB unless you have some concerns over your RB.

Haskins ended up being a serviceable back.  He isn't going to threaten any DC's, but he will hopefully be an ok bridge for ZC or BC to come in and hopefully be a true difference maker.

Alumnus93

December 11th, 2019 at 12:22 AM ^

Haskins misses one hole and now all of a sudden he sucks???... Sheesh.   The guy never fumbles, always gets yards after contact, doesn't fall down like Green did (still couldn't believe how easily he went down), and had outplayed a good Charbonnet.  Haskins might not have the speed like Turner, but has all that is needed.  

Lakeyale13

December 10th, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^

How exactly is our QB situation set for the next 5 years?  McCaffrey looks to be good but is completely unproven and has shown to be fragile.

Milton is completely unproven.  What evidence do you have to end up at such a conclusion?

Here is the unfortunate truth.  Harbaugh hasn't developed a single QB that he has recruited to be a top 3 B10 QB.  I'm not talking top 3 in the country, I'm talking in the B10.  There is zero evidence to think we will be set at the QB position other than very wishful thinking.

blueinbeantown

December 10th, 2019 at 12:59 PM ^

I agree.  Let the nickity neighbobs of negativity pontificate as to why not.  Injury prone is someone who's constantly dinged up with pulls and sprains.  A broken collarbone and concussion after nearly being decapitated does not indicate that.  Firmly believe if DCaff had a good 2nd half against Wiscy, he would have started the following week.  1-2 years of him, then McCarthy coming in.  QB is one of the least worrying positions at the moment with DCaff, Milton and McNamara.  

jwfsouthpaw

December 10th, 2019 at 12:47 PM ^

The RB situation plainly is not bad. It may not be elite in its current form, but it is a far cry from bad. It is also obvious that Charbonnet was working through some knee issues this year, particularly early when the offense was, well, let's be kind and say "finding its footing." He can still be exceptional, as you point out.

You also have no idea if Harbaugh has recruited and developed an above average B10 QB because the ones on the roster are stuck behind Patterson who, despite being maligned by the board, is a good (but imperfect) QB that most B1G teams would start in a heartbeat. Harbaugh's QBs in order:

1. Rudock. Great season, big improvement over the course of the year.

2. Speight. Great season marred only by the Iowa injury and what came after.

3. Everybody plays, and everybody gets injured. So, we live and mostly die with John O'Korn as the 3rd QB. The OL debacle year.

4. Patterson. 5-star transfer is better than Peters and freshman McCaffery

5. Patterson is still here.

Yeah, it's too bad there's been no Andrew Luck who could absolutely dominate a game by himself. From that perspective, the above is a disappointment. But the QB results have overall been very good for college. Until the last half of this year, it's mostly been the system holding the offense back.

 

DeepBlueC

December 10th, 2019 at 6:31 PM ^

See, here's the problem.  Our standards for great QB play are so low that people think that Speight had a "great" season in 2016.  He didn't.  18 Tds, 7 INTs, 62% completions, 7.7 YPA.  That's way, way below championship level, not even close to being "great".  

Harbaugh has not recruited and developed a single QB that has been a difference maker, especially against quality competition.

Lakeyale13

December 10th, 2019 at 1:54 PM ^

So you're not surprised by the fact that JH hasn't had one QB he has recruited become a top 3 B10 QB?  I mean your lying if you say "NO".  We all thought the QB Guru was going to have 5 star QB recruits knocking on our door.

I acknowledge that the transfer window has changed things.  I am simply stating what the vast majority of Michigan fans believe...that we all thought we would have a stud QB...at least one.  

Blue In NC

December 10th, 2019 at 1:13 PM ^

BS on RB.  It was viewed as a weakness coming into the year and I would not say it's a strength at all but Haskins did fine and ZC was a top recruit coming out of HS.  Sure, not Dobbins this year but most are not as a freshman.  I am higher on Charbonnet than are most.  I think he did quite well but Haskins took the role from him by grinding out yards. RB was okay this year but not the disaster you seem to indicate.

Lakeyale13

December 10th, 2019 at 1:23 PM ^

Yeah, I can see that it isn't fair to call it a disaster.  We have average B10 backs.  They can get the job done but aren't exceptional in any facet of the game.  Jury is still out on Charbonnet.

I am just frustrated that in year 5 we haven't had a single NFL talent at RB.  Just blows me away.  I would have though JH would have been able to recruit better.  I guess my pain at not having talent that it takes to beat OSU is coming out.  Sigh.