Recruiting grades so far
I’m a bit of a recruiting junkie so sorry that this is another recruiting post. I do think that this class is a little bit underrated so far. I listen to a lot of podcasts of recruiting sites and I’ve heard a lot of information on some of our current commits. So here is my thoughts on what we have committed so far.
QB: Inc. Johnson would’ve been a good bridge to McCarthy. Due to the circumstances it looks like we will probably end up with a project for this year. Not ideal but not entirely surprising given the circumstances.
RB: A-. Corum is shooting up the rankings, up to #67 on Rivals. He is the home run threat we have wanted for a while and also a surprisingly tough runner for his size. A perfect complement to our bruisers we already have. Garcia was incredibly productive and may or may not end up playing football for UM.
WR: B+. Speed in space. Henning will make an immediate impact, Wilson has elite speed, and Dennis is a little guy with elite quickness. No true outside WR which will mean we should probably target a bigger WR in 2021.
TE: B. Hibner is also shooting up The rankings and looks like a steal compared to when he first committed. Another TE who has size and speed. Not sure what Patterson’s status is.
OL: B. We had a great haul last year and have some more quality guys in this class. Zinter and Persi have both been mentioned as guys who might be better than their low 4* rating indicates, and center Attebery is a high 3* with a really good offer list. Not sure what Mazzcuahs status is and we are still pursuing another OT.
DT: C-. This might be kind but it’s probably not time to panic. We have Hinton and Mazi from last year and some other young guys who could slide inside. Kris Jenkins Jr seems most likely to end up at DT from this class, but that’s about it. 2021 needs to have an elite haul. Good news is we appear to be in great shape for top 100 DT Rocco Spindler and in on several others. We will need a couple good ones.
DE: B. McGregor will be another Aidan Hutchinson and Rivals EJ Holland said Aaron Lewis was criminally underranked and could be one of our best defensive recruits. No elite pass rusher so that will need to be a 2021 priority.
LB: B+. Mullings could be a star, Wheeler is rated very highly by Rivals who says he will be multi year starter. Mohan isn’t ranked super highly but appears to be a good fit at viper and Savage is ranked #166 by Rivals. Holland really likes this group.
CB: C-. Seldon will be a good player, but probably will be a nickle corner. If we get DGW this goes up to a B. If we strike out, getting 2 high end corners in 2021 becomes a must.
S: A-. Underrated group. Morant is a stud, Moten is a great athlete who could be a viper. Paige Is a long, smooth athlete who can add muscle and become a very good safety.
December 10th, 2019 at 2:28 PM ^
Isn't there like "1st, 2nd and 3rd team All B10"? Saying that they are honorable mention isn't saying much at all.
I guess I need to just accept the state of Michigan football. Sigh. Hurts when you grew up in HS / college watching them in the 80's-90's. I need to get over the fact that Michigan isn't going to have a Hoard, A Train, Perry, Hart, etc at the RB position in the near future. I miss having RB's that got drafted on a regular basis. That is the past. Hoping for the future.
December 10th, 2019 at 3:32 PM ^
Okay. So how many of the guys ahead of them--six--were true freshman or redshirt freshman? Yeah, um, I count one.
YOU ARE WRONG. And probably a troll.
December 10th, 2019 at 3:38 PM ^
LOL. Not a troll. B10 HM Rb's aren't going to cut it if we want to win B10 titles and beat OSU.
December 10th, 2019 at 3:51 PM ^
You're more negative than I am in general, but the problem isn't just at RB. We're lacking elite playmakers all over the field. We've had a few recently, almost entirely on defense, and we have some good WR's, but they sure do drop A LOT of passes at critical times.
We need to be getting way more top 100 players overall, instead of the 1-2 we typically get. Having one elite RB and/or an elite QB makes the offense deadly. Having a missile like Peppers or Bush makes the defense much more dangerous.
We need to figure out why we're not getting and keeping these guys and stop doing that.
December 10th, 2019 at 4:08 PM ^
I agree. Our record against OSU and lack of elite recruiting are the two biggest shocks for me after year 5 of Harbaugh. I guess they both explain each other.
December 10th, 2019 at 2:24 PM ^
Gaining nearly 700 yards on 4.7ypc and gaining the TD record as a freshman is much better stats than OSU’s 3rd stringer. Charbonnet is, IMO, a stud—and it cracks me up how many people on here make dismissive opinions as if they are facts. Haskins was a HS RB and athlete with LB size moved to LB bc that was a position of weakness for years. Of course they moved him back when we had Walker bolt, Higdon leave, and Evans be suspended. Stop trying to demean the talent based on a narrow interpretations of the basic facts. Yes, we were thin at RB because of attrition, but slighting the talent level and performance of our RBs is ludicrous. We just had 1200 yards combined out of two freshman runners on less than 250 carries. Add Corum and Evans to a maturing ZC and H2 and oh do we have a stable that can run up on the rest of the BIG.
Give either Haskins or ZC the ball 18-20 times a game all season and they will have, at minimum, 1200 yards individually.
December 10th, 2019 at 3:43 PM ^
Honest question and not being a prick...what teams in the top 25 would want to switch their RB stable with ours? What team in the top 25 would Haskins start on over their current RB?
December 10th, 2019 at 7:45 PM ^
Here ya go, Lakeyale.
Let's compare the top 25 RB stables with ours (coaches poll fwiw):
In my estimation, 12 schools would trade our RBs for theirs, 5 by a large margin.
11 would keep their own, 6 by large margin.
1 push - Auburn's RBs look much like ours.
So, our RB stable appears to be about average for a top 25 team. Higher ranked teams tend to have better rushing attacks.
No surprise, the very best teams are better at rushing than we are.
After the top 5, I'd take our RBs over 13 of the other 19 ranked teams.
Caveat: This is based mostly on stats; didn't really take quality of OL/style of play into account.
25. UVA – Nobody. QB was top rusher. Big advantage Michigan.
24. Air Force – Kaden Remsberg was only real RB. Tiny 2* nobody. Big advantage Michigan.
23. USC – RB by committee. Used 4 guys, top rusher had 466. Advantage Michigan.
22. Cincinnati – Michael Warren rushed for 1,200 yards, but against mostly lousy competition. 15 yds. vs. OSU. Advantage Michigan.
21. Navy – No RB with significant yards. QB Malcolm Perry rushed for 1,500. He was a 2* LB recruit. Other rushers were FB’s. Big advantage Michigan.
20. App State – 2* Darrynton Evans rushed for 1,300 yards. 3.7 and 4.1 ypc against P5. Backup fared worse. Big advantage Michigan.
19. Iowa – Goodson, Sargent, and Young all ran for 400-600 yards. All meh recruits with meh stats. Big advantage Michigan.
18. Boise St. – Holani is a frosh that got almost 1,000 yards, and backup Mahone is a 2* with 400+. I’d guess folks would take our guys over theirs. Advantage Michigan.
17. us
16. Minnesota – Smith, Ibrahim, Brooks. Smith gained over 1,000 yards, and backups are pretty good. Might still take Michigan’s backs, but will give...Slight advantage Minnesota.
15. Memphis – Spectacularly named low 3* Kenneth Gainwell rushed for 1,400 yards, though mostly against poor competition. No other RB contributed much. Advantage Michigan
14. Notre Dame – Tony Jones, Jr. rushed for over 700 yards. No other RB got over 200. Big advantage Michigan.
13. Auburn – Whitlow is primary, with Williams and Martin behind him. Whitlow gained over 700, the others over 300 each. All are high 3*/low 4*. Advantage – push.
12. PSU – Brown, with Cain and Ford behind. Similar stats to Michigan’s guys. Slight Advantage PSU.
11. Wisconsin – Taylor, with Watson and Groshek backing him. Taylor’s a superstar. Big Advantage Wisconsin.
10. Utah – Zach Moss, with Brumfeld backing. Moss had a great year. Advantage Utah.
9. Alabama – Najee Harris, Robinson backing. Harris is really good, we wanted him. Big advantage Bama.
8. Baylor – Lovett and Hasty – both with over 600 yards. I’d take our guys. Slight advantage Michigan.
7. Florida – Perine, with Pierce and Jones backing. Perine gained over 500 yards, other over 200 each. Perine didn’t have a great year. Advantage Michigan.
6. Oregon – Verdell and Dye. Verdell gained 1,100 yards, and Dye over 600. Both had good YPC. Big advantage Ducks.
5. Georgia – Swift, with Herrien/White backing. Swift is good and had a good year. Big advantage Georgia
4. Oklahoma – Brooks, with Stevenson backing. Jalen Hurts was best runner for Sooners. Brooks’ stats look good, but partially due to threat of Hurts and wide open offense. Slight advantage Sooners.
3. Clemson – Etienne, with Dixon behind. Etienne had a great year. Big advantage Clemson.
2. Ohio St. – Dobbins, with Teague behind. Dobbins is really good. Big advantage OSU.
1. LSU – Edwards-Helaire had a big year. Others are just guys. Advantage LSU
December 13th, 2019 at 4:25 AM ^
Thanks for listing this out.
December 10th, 2019 at 3:25 PM ^
I’m not sure I agree with that take. Haskins and Charbonnet have looked mostly good when they have been given the opportunities. With some rare exceptions they have mostly shown good enough vision to hit the holes that were open to them. The bigger issue has been very inconsistent running blocking by the line and poor RB coaching with respect to vision and letting holes develop. This is not new. It has been a problem ever since Mike Hart left.
We tend to think that because of Bo’s legacy and commitment to the run that we are a better rushing team than we truly are, but how many backs have we recent put into the NFL? How does our line grade out vs Wisconsin in run blocking? The answers are not many and not well.
You could put any back out there and the result would largely be the same because we are not culturally committed to it the way Wisconsin is. That is probably a good thing because we also aren’t very committed to a dynamic passing game and that is more important as the game morphs more and more into a scoring contest. If anything we should shift our identity to building an offense geared toward the way that the game is moving rather than where it came from. Thankfully Coach Harbaugh recognizes that and Gattis may be able to get us there.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:55 AM ^
Good on the whole, however DT at a C- is wishful thinking. The current team shouldn't reflect the recruiting class grades, and DT was a joke this year. Not even Dwumfour/Kemp's fault, only having 280 pounds per guy was not going to work in the Big Ten no matter what.
Recruit DT heavy, it is a spot of strength for any team that is serious. Quite frankly disappointed that Nua hasn't gotten us a stud there...that is his job.
I agree that this is a very solid class overall, just disappointed that our biggest weakness isn't a priority.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:59 AM ^
Quite frankly disappointed that Nua hasn't gotten us a stud there.
Recruiting is a multi-year process. Nua just got here this year...
December 10th, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
Yes, however U of M shouldn't struggle to recruit a single player for any position. I'm not saying he needs to be Larry Johnson, but it is literally his job to recruit the position. Still time left, but how anyone can be okay with that is beyond me.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:17 PM ^
Nua isn't picking the targets though. I'm not saying we shouldn't recruit the DL better, we absolutely should. But to blame a guy who was hired in January isn't right, IMO.
December 10th, 2019 at 1:21 PM ^
It’s year five under Harbaugh. We need to stop with the excuses.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:04 PM ^
Well I do think what we currently have on the roster should impact this years grade. For example If we only had one RB on the roster, getting just Corum would not make it an A-. Since we have young depth, getting one elite guy is all we need. For DT, really what we need is nose tackles. We have a few guys who could develop to a 3 tech. Since we have Mazi and Hinton at NT, I don’t think it’s panic time. Ideally we would have landed a stud 320 lber in this class but those guys are rare. So that means getting a couple next year to bridge from the 2 current guys is absolutely needed. If next year all we get is a Jenkins type, then the grade is F.
December 10th, 2019 at 1:06 PM ^
People are clamoring for a NT type body, but Don Brown has minimal snaps in his defensive schemes for a true NT. Mone was not used very often.
I think losing Solomon was a big issue. He would have fit well into Brown's schemes - big but agile guy who can stunt well. Instead we took good generalist types (Kemp, Dwumfour) and put them in the middle. It worked fine most of the time except against the beef of Wisconsin and OSU.
I think Hinton in the middle fits Brown's 3-4 defense and Mazi can be that occasional true NT needed in a 4-3 when called upon. Coaches just need to get them both turned into men by fall 2020. Hinton up to an agile ~305 and Mazi to 325+ ... could happen as each is just reaching true adulthood.
December 10th, 2019 at 2:46 PM ^
I agree with this Mongo, though I'd say Solomon not panning out as expected was the issue more than his transfer. Just wasn't working here, for whatever reason(s).
DT was a problem this year. Mazi and Hinton were true freshmen. If both live up to their potential DT could quickly become a position of strength.
Would be nice to get some additional guys to begin developing.
December 10th, 2019 at 3:32 PM ^
Idk, I think Morris and Jenkins *could* end up as solid DTs if they fill out the way some think they will. We have a track record of finding low rated guys on defense who turn into really nice players. It's no guarantee but I wouldn't write that off.
December 10th, 2019 at 4:15 PM ^
Hope you're right evenyoubrutus.
I agree we often underestimate slower-developing players. Like OL, DT is a position that requires both size and smarts. It often takes guys time to bulk up and figure things out.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:55 AM ^
Since recruiting talk has been a little light around here lately I appreciate the content. I am admittedly concerned at the DT/CB recruiting situation when looked through the lens of the last couple of classes. I have hope for Hinton/Mazi but it is apparent that their focus shift two years ago to long, lanky CBs was a little flawed and the DT position is one of those where you need quantity because of the unpredictability of the position.
In both cases I am concerned about the lack of quality and quantity in the class and I hope we either uncover some late prospects and/or hit the transfer market.
December 10th, 2019 at 11:59 AM ^
Informative post, OP. Good stuff.
I posted about DTs and recruiting... got a mixed response but most people agreed: why wouldn't Michigan's staff try to get one "true" DT per year? A wide body with solid leverage? I mean... why not? You are going to play Wisconsin every season right? Is Wisconsin going to do anything besides line up and run power and counter? Think they are changing identities any time soon? Iowa? Why in the heck wouldn't Michigan get a true DT each and every season? This is insane to me. Plenty of options in the Midwest and beyond. Of the top 50, Alabama has 4 DTs for 2020. Notre Dame, Stanford, they all got one. Nebraska has 2. Michigan can't get a big fella with decent hands and technique for the position? Seriously?
December 10th, 2019 at 12:20 PM ^
You are going to play Wisconsin every season right?
Definitely not. They're not in our division. They rotate off of the schedule in 2022, 2023, and 2025.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
Under the current scheduling plan, we do not play Wisconsin every season
Edit: Redundant
December 10th, 2019 at 3:52 PM ^
I do actually empathize with your main premise (recruiting wide body DT's is a good thing). But you raise Wisconsin and Iowa as reasons why large-bodied DT's are perennially important. However, we beat Iowa 10-3 this year. We eviscerated Wisconsin last year and beat them the year before in a closer game that we dominated statistically from a defensive standpoint - Taylor was the starting RB in both of those games with the usual suspects manning the Wisconsin OL.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:00 PM ^
I would love to see Makari Paige used similarly to how Clemson utilizes Isaiah Simmons. I don't think it's going to happen but with the success Simmons has had the last couple years I would love to see Michigan utilize Paige similarly.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:07 PM ^
I think this is what Brown wants to do.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:16 PM ^
I don’t follow Clemson at all, how is he used?
December 10th, 2019 at 4:22 PM ^
He was a safety recruit of similar size/athleticism to Paige, granted he weighed about 30 pounds more, but last year he was converted to a hybrid nickel/SAM linebacker. It's a similar role to the Viper in our defense, but has a little bit of what Uche does to it as well.
His 2019 stats are: 91 tackles, 7 sacks, 14 TFLs, 1 fumble forced, 1 fumble recovered, 2 INTs
He just won the Butkus Award as the Nations Top Linebacker.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:00 PM ^
Sounds a lot like what people said in previous classes. "We got a lot of DTs in 2017, we can afford to miss on a few or take a project in 2018." Elite programs dont miss on key positions and it is a little frustrating that Harbaugh went into the season knowing that we didnt have any depth at dt and were playing a fullback there for god sakes and we still havent pursued a dt in this class. Presumably, the coaching staff must have known that we had problems at that position in the summer when Onwenu was going at our interior dl on a daily basis in practice.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:01 PM ^
A school like Michigan should have plenty of talented bodies on the defensive line annually. Not a fan of Don Brown's approach to recruiting this position.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
Right. Why not call Brady Hoke and bring him back as DL coach? He's currently at the same position at San Diego State. He's an ace recruiter and a great identifier and developer of DL talent. This team would've looked a lot different with Hurst and Glasgow on the interior.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:16 PM ^
This is Michigan for God's sake!
December 10th, 2019 at 12:18 PM ^
well for one I dunno if the man has any pride but going to work as a position coach at job for a guy who replaced you as the head coach is probably not super high on Brady Hoke's Christmas list.
for two there was that whole concussion thing.
for three we just hired a new DL coach in Shaun Nua who hasn't worked here for 12 months yet and has a good track record and needs more than 11 months to recruits and develop guys.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't think it's something that would be just snap your fingers and it happens thing.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:30 PM ^
The guy has made it clear that he loves Michigan, and I think he realizes that he's just meant to be a DL coach and nothing more. He has a lot of value there and could contribute a lot to the program at that position. As far as the concussion thing, yeah that's why he's not being brought back as head coach, so he doesn't have to be responsible for the "little details" like that.
What exactly is Nua's resume? He was at Navy and ASU before here. Not saying he's bad but he is a relative unknown and early returns haven't been great. No offense to him, but we're going head to head against Larry Johnson for DL recruits. An unknown like Nua isn't gonna win those battles.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:03 PM ^
Hoke's a great dl coach--I'm love him to come back and handle them. I've got my doubts about Nua.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
Brady Hoke would walk to Michigan to take the job.
December 10th, 2019 at 1:37 PM ^
Your points are not crazy, NeverPunt, but some responses.
1. Not sure about the whole "pride" thing. Hoke is currently a DL coach. At a much smaller job than Michigan. It would be a promotion. Sure, it would be a little weird being on staff as a school where he was previously the HC, but Hoke doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would care much about that.
2. re: the concussion thing, I think that Brady was put in a terrible spot by Brandon. Being HC on the sideline,you don't notice every single thing. It is very possible that Hoke didn't see Morris wobble and go down, and didn't realize that he was concussed. As for his "not fully aware," comment, I am sure that he probably wanted to say, "look, I saw him get hit, but I had no idea that he was concussed, didn't see him wobble and I appreciated his toughness for wanting to stay in the game," but Brandon told him to give some corporate double-speak answer.
3. Yes, we just hired Nua. And our DL was as bad as it has been in ages. A lot of that is talent, so I am not entirely blaming him, but combine the results of last season with his recruiting results so far, and I could see how people would think that Hoke is an upgrade (great recruiter, good DL coach).
December 13th, 2019 at 4:19 AM ^
And, correct me if I’m wrong, but hoke is essentially in that position now—maybe worse, in that he is working for someone that used to be his direct assistant.
December 11th, 2019 at 3:22 AM ^
I would love to see Hoke on the team.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:02 PM ^
The fact that you indicate that we have to hit a grand slam in 2021 (4 references to needs in the 2021 class) is telling. They're not coming for us, are they, sir.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
Pretty meh so far at the most needed positions. Fabulous.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
I do agree there is some cause for some level of concern. For example, getting 3 small speedy receivers is great, but we took Giles and Sainristil last year so maybe it’s overkill. We got Perry and Turner at CB last year and if both of those were top 100 guys who were already seeing the field, we wouldn’t be sweating the CB situation. But they aren’t and we don’t know how good they will be.
December 15th, 2019 at 7:46 AM ^
Not overkill at all if that's what you want to do. It's pretty obvious those are the type of guys Gattis wants at WR. So you might as well get used to it, you're not going to see 6'4" 6'5" guys on the outside anymore. Personally I don't care because Michigan rarely used the size they had this year other than throwing it up to Collins in single coverage. If the passing game can get more YAC and explosive plays from short passes that's fine with me. The strength of the offense regardless if Collins and DPJ leave is still at WR. This year starting with the first game I want to see this offense opened up. I don't want to see another game like Army.
December 10th, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
Good post TK, I also love hearing the recruiting updates.
So maybe this has been discussed already, but why wouldn't Harbaugh go out and hire 3-4 more young and talented recruiters to his recruiting staff? Georgia outspent us by $1.3mil this past year, so I'm sure you could easily hire 3-4 studs for that amount of money.
Now I know you have staff limitations for coaching, but isn't recruiting more of an administrative function that doesn't count towards your coaching totals?
December 10th, 2019 at 12:46 PM ^
The NCAA restricts the individuals who can contact recruits. Analysts can't engage in recruiting.
This is an opportunity to ask something I've wondered about. Recruits are limited to 5 official visits. Are schools limited in the number of officials they can host?
December 10th, 2019 at 2:28 PM ^
Yes schools are limited in the total number of officials. I think it’s 56 / year for football and 24/ 2 years for basketball
December 10th, 2019 at 2:47 PM ^
Good info - thank you 4th phase. I've wondered this myself.
December 10th, 2019 at 2:33 PM ^
yes they are. i forget the total, i think its like 65 per year. and i believe teams can carry over a certain % of unused visits from prior year
December 10th, 2019 at 7:36 PM ^
Thanks to you and 4th Phase. Too bad the +1s are meaningless.
I was pretty sure this had to be the case or we would hear about the advantage unlimited visits would give to certain schools. It's still a little surprising we never hear about a school running out of available official visits to offer.