OT USA falls to Germany, Wagners FIBA
USA lost this morning to Germany in the semi finals. Germany was lead by former Wolverine Franz Wagner with 22 points, and Mo Wagner added 10. Germany to play Serbia for Gold while USA will play Canada for Bronze.
September 8th, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^
not surprised. The US FIBA team was poorly constructed with a bunch a wing players and no real size
September 8th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
Agreed, USA doesn’t care about FIBA and it shows on the court. Was nice to feed the Wagner bros playing well and enjoying it
September 8th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
Yeah, they had 2 guys 6' 11" or above and while Jaren Jackson Jr. is a great defender he's not built to bang with big guys and Walker Kessler is young. It's why they got beaten by Lithuania as well.
September 8th, 2023 at 3:30 PM ^
i mean, i guess we could've sent deandre ayton or julius randle? i guess adding two might've changed the result, but i wouldn't guarantee it.
the US obviously has some great players, but the world gets closer every year. the absolute best players in the world (embiid, jokic, doncic, antetokuompo, and maybe shai gilgeous-alexander) are all foreign-born, and the countries that are beating us are no longer led by a single player on an oscar schmidt-style heater. these teams actually have some depth. plus, the american players that might've changed the result (tatum, curry, lebron, lillard, klay, AD, draymond, trae young [lol] etc.) are generally roughly 0% likely to play in a non-olympic international event, for various reasons.
September 8th, 2023 at 4:23 PM ^
rumor has it that Nike had a heavy influence on who was on the FIBA US team and pushed to have non Nike athletes excluded.
September 8th, 2023 at 5:10 PM ^
I would find that very unusual.
Just kidding - it doesn’t surprise me in the least. Now, Nike can determine their “third or fourth place” ad campaign around the team’s performance.
September 8th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
USA shot better than Germany from the field, 3 point, and free throw line. Only -2 in rebounds and +1 in turnovers. You don't see that every day. Also wild to see how productive Austin Reaves continues to be.
September 8th, 2023 at 12:17 PM ^
Austin Reaves is a full-on dude, and I'm super stoked to see him have a full season as the Laker's 3rd guy. That said, Franz's ceiling is vast - I can easily see him blossoming into a do-everything Scottie Pippen-type 2nd/3rd banana for a dynasty team.
September 8th, 2023 at 1:10 PM ^
I was on the Wemby hype train initially until I saw the preseason and while I don't see him as a bust, I don't think he will live up to the hype. With that said he could be all nba and not necessarily live up to the hype....but I would have loved to see SA pair him and Reeves...
September 8th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
He hasn't even played a game. WAY too early for that assessment.
September 8th, 2023 at 3:15 PM ^
Only -2 in rebounds and +1 in turnovers.
Total rebounds isn't that useful of a stat. Rebound percentage is more important, especially on the offensive end.
Germany missed 30 shots and rebounded 12 of them (40%). The U.S. missed 27 shots and rebounded seven of them (26%). This, coupled with that -1 in turnovers, meant that Germany attempted six more shots - very significant in a two-point game.
September 8th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
Caught myself rooting for Germany by the end. Go Franz & Moe!
September 8th, 2023 at 12:01 PM ^
Same. Almost makes me feel dirty. Almost.
September 8th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^
Big deal from the German perspective. Proud of Franz and Mo!
September 8th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
Franz is really growing into an all around star
September 8th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
Seems like the Wagner's have played well the entire tournament - good for them (love to see it), hope they go win the whole thing now!
September 8th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
Congrats to the Wagners; Franz is going to have a great third year is my guess.
US wasn't built to really win this type of tournament and it showed. Just a bunch of wings with some issues defensively against larger, more experienced teams.
September 8th, 2023 at 11:29 AM ^
So the USA will not be the world champion in basketball? Cool. Now if someone could let that punk know.
September 8th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
They beat those Team USA girly men.
Congrats to the Wagners.
September 8th, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^
Hans and Franz was brilliant for a very low rent bit.
September 8th, 2023 at 2:25 PM ^
Listen to the Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend podcast. This summer they did readings from the Hans and Franz movie that was never made.
It probably would have been a 1990s cult classic had they signed Arnold on...
September 8th, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
you beat me to it, and i totally agree. it looks like it would've been a kinda dumb, silly and really funny movie that would've totally landed for me.
the read-through is a delight, either way, just a bunch of smart, funny guys that really dig each other and like to make each other laugh.
September 8th, 2023 at 11:54 AM ^
For German basketball it's the biggest deal since the European championship nearly 30 years ago.
It's kind of interesting that German basketball is probably as good as it's ever been and so is German hockey, but German soccer has become quite mediocre and is close to its nadir.
September 8th, 2023 at 1:17 PM ^
It’s always been puzzling to me that German hockey isn’t better and how little talent they have historically produced. Even putting aside the Swedes and the Finns, Slovakia and the Czechs as Germany’s closest neighbors have produced far more and far better players historically. The money and the population are certainly there. Sure there’s Draisaital now and Seider. Historically, we’re looking at Olaf Kolzig? Marco Strum? Uwe Krupp? Johan Hecht? All those guys are pretty forgettable, save for Kolzig.
September 8th, 2023 at 2:01 PM ^
It's kinda like asking why you don't have much hockey talent from the Deep South when the area produces tons of excellent football and baseball players. Hockey is a niche sport in Germany with limited cultural acceptance. It's (1) soccer (2) soccer (3) soccer then sports like hockey, basketball, handball fighting for the crumbs.
September 8th, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^
Slovakia and the Czechs as Germany’s closest neighbors have produced far more and far better players historically.
And Germany's other neighbors? France, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands don't produce many hockey players, either. Hockey is a big deal in a handful of countries and mostly off the radar in the rest.
September 8th, 2023 at 12:09 PM ^
Was Biete there?
September 8th, 2023 at 12:42 PM ^
Maybe it's because I've lost interest in the NBA because the Pistons suck, but I've never heard of most of the guys on the USA team. Good for the Wagners. Bring us all the German recruits they've inspired.
September 8th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
I would think that it is safe to say that "because you've lost interest in the NBA" is the primary reason why you've not heard of most of the guys. None of them are particularly obscure if you follow the NBA. Most are promising up and coming young guys, a few are bonafide stars (not SUPER stars).
September 8th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
Super happy for them. As much as national pride makes me want to see the USA to win (plus, it's not like we sent the A team), I think it's awesome for the sport of basketball to have other countries get some shine. Germany has been pumping out NBA players lately. Hopefully more of them pass through Michigan thanks to the Wagner bros before going pro.
September 8th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^
I will be supporting Deutschland in the final. It appears USA should have brought more size to the tournament.
September 8th, 2023 at 2:27 PM ^
I'm a good American and all, but all's I know is that the team with two Michigan guys on it just beat the team with one MSU guy on it.
September 8th, 2023 at 2:57 PM ^
Heard the Wagner Group is looking for a new team captain. Good to see Mo and Franz balling out though.
September 8th, 2023 at 4:02 PM ^
I hope the US steam rollers those Canucks.
September 8th, 2023 at 5:37 PM ^
don’t care Lions won last night
September 8th, 2023 at 5:41 PM ^
This tournament continued to show how overrated Kerr is.
The roster construction was terrible for the most part. Jaren as your own only decent big was going to bite them eventually - especially playing him at the 5 and expecting him to be a rebounder when he’s always been a roaming 4 who is a subpar rebounder. Kerr didn’t even try to pair him with Kessler, and rarely added additional size out there.
However, at the end of the day, it’s FIBA. The US usually sends their lower tier guys there anyway - and is evidenced by the US having mixed results at this tournament most times.
Of this roster, I’d suspect only a handful will be on the Olympic roster next year. Probably Brunson, Edwards, Bridges, Jaren, and Reaves. Jaren has more questions than others, but he’s a defensive monster when he is allowed to play his natural position and his offensive game is coming along (though streaky). Reaves would be a nice guy off the bench but he will get destroyed on d.
I suspect Embiid will be on the US team next year (he won’t rep Camaroon, and France is already pretty good at the 4/5 with Wemby/Gobert), which would make the US unstoppable at the big man positions if he and Jaren are paired up along with Bam Adebayo and Mobley. Even if he isn’t, add in Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Mitchell, or some other guys and it’s a wrap next year. And if Curry actually shows up it could be a cakewalk.