OT: Stewart Mandel revisits inviting Rutgers to the Big Ten (it's still a bad decision)
Paywalled article, but for those with access to the Athletic, definitely worth a read.
The TL:DR is that this move never made sense, in hindsight, is confirmed to make no sense, and should be basically be considered Delaney's biggest gaffe.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
what is the process to boot someone out? I would love to boot maryland and rutgers and pick up some better programs.. though playing both every year is a nice reprieve (typically) from a tough (typically) schedule --- and i get to see UM over here on the east coast!
August 7th, 2023 at 10:24 AM ^
Maryland is coming along. Rutgers can definitely hit the bricks though.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:40 AM ^
Ask Rutgers - they did it to Temple once upon a time
August 7th, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^
Temple wasn't a full Big East member --- Villanova was the driving force behind that --- and Rutgers was. Thus Temple became the easy (and convenient) team to boot.
As bad as TU football was back then, RU was considerably worse. A few facts:
- Temple outscored Rutgers 154-64 (!) during a 4-game win streak from 1999-2002.
- Rutgers didn't win their first Big East conference game of the 2000s until late October 2003.
- For the entirety of the 2004 season and up until September 30, 2005 --- Rutgers had just as many non-Temple Big East wins in the 2000s (1) as they had wins against Michigan State in the 2000s (1).
August 7th, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
What are the realistic better programs the Big 10 could swap them out for? I've mostly heard ACC teams like UVa and UNC, which are good basketball programs but no great shakes in football.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
But they are outstanding universities with huge alumni bases and Jordan Shipp seems to think they're worthwhile at FB (too soon?).
They are good at a variety of sports and are academically on par with UM. Huge alumni bases in the DC area and historic rivalries with Maryland brings it together.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
But I guess I've been hearing that UNC was going to be a football power for decades now and that has resulted in exactly one 10+ win season since the first time Mack Brown was a coach there. Maybe they'll figure it out but who knows. And UVa has a similar ceiling as a football program and doesn't seem to invest a ton into that program.
As for academics they're obviously great but this has never been about academics - if it was they'd never have brought in Nebraska, the team I apparently hate with the fire of the sun since they're constantly catching strays.
August 7th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^
Here's the thing though. You can't have only power programs in a conference. They will cannibalize each other. You have to have some minnows. It might not be fair that the minnow in question is Rutgers, and not some other school, but somebody's got to play that role. Someone has to absorb those losses that the big boys dish out.
This is why the Super League failed in soccer. It was all set to line up 12 superpower clubs from England, Spain and Italy, until they realized that someone was going to have to finish at the bottom, and they got cold feet.
It's why IU and Northwestern will always be safe in the Big Ten, and Vandy in the SEC.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:04 PM ^
Yeah everyone wants a football power but could you imagine the thrill of stealing half the SEC! That is until you realize that you may end up with Alabama and Georgia in the B1G East . . .
I'm fine with a handful of lovable losers in each conference.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:55 AM ^
UVa good enough to give us a scare once upon a time ...
August 7th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^
This was my second Michigan home game I was ever at as a kid. First one was that Colorado hail mary game so this was my first win
We don't talk about Colorado game around here.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:35 AM ^
While Virginia and UNC aren't great at football, they're both better than Rutgers. UNC was challenging for the ACC title last season. UVA is a bit rough but they can turn things around. I believe in them far more than I believe in Rutgers.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
I noted earlier but UNC has one 10+ win season since UM won the national title. They've "challenged" in a general sense because the ACC was dog-shit last year; NC State also challenged for the conference title last year. UVa won 10 games in 1989; they won some games under Bronco Mendenhall but he was fired and I don't think Tony Elliott is going to turn them around. Even with that great stretch by Bronco they've only gone 48-60 over the past 9 years (the year Rutgers joined the Big 10); Rutgers has gone 33-74. But UVa has played in a much weaker conference and division, so those win totals are probably a bit inflated. My guess is if Rutgers didn't have to play UM, OSU, and PSU every year they'd win a couple more games.
August 7th, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
My only real answer is to get rid of Rutgers and pick up Notre Dame. They fit the BIG very well and it seems like time to bring them in. Maryland for UNC or Virginia doesn't make much sense at this point.
As an ACC alum and UVA dad, overall agree with your assessment here. NC State and Va Tech tend to do a good bit better filling their stadiums than UVA and UNC. Also in this thread someone indicated they have huge alumni bases but UNC at ~30k and UVA at 24k total enrollment aren’t large by Big Ten standards (in fact compared to Michigan, UVA almost feels like it could be a larger private school). Again Tech and NC State are both larger in the mid 30s. And I haven’t seen any evidence Mendenhall was fired. He apparently just decided he needed a lifestyle change, his resignation was pretty surprising from what I understand, and he shortly moved to a ranch in Montana with his wife.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
I’m okay with letting Maryland hang around. They’re decent enough in football and have an extremely high ceiling in basketball.
Rutgers has been dead weight since the day they showed up. The only reason they are even here and not floating adrift in the AAC it’s because they are located an hour away from one of the biggest cities in the world.
Rutgers is a geographical convenience. Nothing more.
Geographically at the time it looked good. Problem is people in NY and New Jersey aren’t big into college football so not sure it really added a lot to eyes on the B1G. Getting rid of them for a school like UNC would be a huge get for the B1G
August 7th, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^
You wouldn't really need to pick anyone else up. 16 teams is a better number than 18
August 9th, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
Attended UM 1974-82 (2 undergrad, 2 MM degrees), now on the faculty at UMD and had to respond to this.
Joining the B1G has been great for Maryland, and I think we're holding up our end of the bargain decently well. Football is coming along, but in the current B1G East it's a long slog to build a competitive program. But look at sports beyond football and UMD is hanging in pretty well--hopefully men's basketball is on an upswing, too.
And beware this year's trip to Maryland the week before Ohio. A UMD win would be a longshot, but it could be a tough game that depletes Michigan. The Terps might make some (a little...) noise this year.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:05 AM ^
The move never made sense for the country's richest conference. Not sure how I understand the logic given what we are now seeing in the Pac 12.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
They did point out in the piece that in the short term it made the Big Ten a shit-ton of money, and if cord-cutting hadn’t become normative just a few short years later I think we’d be singing a different tune. So I think it’s unfair to say Delaney completely whiffed on Rutgers
That being said, I hated this move when I was 13 when it was announced and I hate it even more now. They’re an absolute anchor, and when we talk about realignment $$ and how the pie gets cut it sickens me to think that Oregon will make $40 million/year less than RUTGERS simply because of a geography/chronology thing. If their financial instability is as pervasive as this Athletic article claims, we should cut bait and not look back
August 7th, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^
literally anyone under the age of 40 saw cord-cutting coming. Hell it was already happening when we let Rutgers in.
I'm tired of pretending these men in power are competent. They're simply not.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
Yeah, but do you think Delaney cared?
His objective, increase the bottom line NOW, let the next guy deal with the consequences.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:50 AM ^
What alternative reality are we talking about where the Big10 is facing huge revenue problems?
I think he was referring to Rutger's financial problems, not the Big 10's.
Delaney was paid out handsomely so this more about maximizing his personal revenue. Whenever you question an executive’s decision rest assured they’re doing precisely what will maximize their contractual bonus as determined by the people that hired them.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:07 AM ^
idk, we're going to need an easy game or three throughout the schedule with all the new competition coming.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:11 AM ^
agree, but there are plenty of dogshit programs who have bigger followings, more money, better schools, and typically horribly underwhelm.
Enter Miami (YTM), UVA, BC, ND, CO
August 7th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
BC?
I liked the additon of Maryland, Rutgers was only a miopically good idea from the cable sub. model perspective of 199X-2020 and a slight recuriting boon. I tend to think that adding a state/metro area is better for the conference than the added school.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:50 AM ^
Do we have any evidence that adding Rutgers has helped recruiting one iota? Or built the audience for B1G football? I'm open to it--my mom used to teach at Rutgers, and in New Jersey there was a sense that entry could lift the school. I'm not sure that that has happened, either. There was talk, for a time, of their AD being a mess, and them being over their heads in planning for facilities and such.
I think that one good result, long term, of realignment, may be some schools getting out of the football business? Would it be harmful for Cal to forego football?
August 7th, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^
Ancedotally, M has picked up a lot of NJ kids in the last 10-12 years. Where did JH locate his summer camps? GA and NJ IIRC. There was a ton of buzz around 'building the fence around NJ re: M pulling NJ kids.
Plus, I'm thinking of PSU joining and thinking they'd all of a sudden convince all these OH and IL kids to go to PSU while the reality was it was much easier to pull PA kids out of PA to places like UM and OSU
August 7th, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
In the age of streaming, I'm beginning to doubt the actual financial relevance of the so-called 'New York TV market' that Rutgers supposedly brings. There are probably more Big Ten alums living in the NYC area tuning into B1G games every week than there are Rutgers alums tuning into Rutgers games...by at least 2x or 3x
Basic cable is dying/dead. ESPN will offer a direct to consumer streaming offering starting in 2025 (Iger himself confirmed this).
Once they offer the D2C (direct to consumer) streaming ESPN offering, they are going to jack up the carriage fees, basically daring Comcast and Charter to drop them. Fewer subscribers, more money/jacked up prices to get ESPN. Not exactly good for advertising revenue though (fewer eyeballs).
It's actually a good thing we have CBS, NBC, and Fox carrying our games now.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:32 AM ^
User name checks.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^
So there was one interesting snippet regarding that in the article:
But while Rutgers has hemorrhaged money, the Big Ten’s coffers got richer thanks to one particular revenue stream – cable subscription fees. As of 2014, the Big Ten Network, co-owned by Fox, received $1 per month from cable providers within the conference footprint as opposed to around 10 cents out-of-market. Once it joined the Big Ten, Rutgers became an in-market school for the roughly 6 million cable households in New York, New Jersey and parts of Connecticut.
“We basically had a 400 percent increase (in network revenue),” Delany says of the Maryland/Rutgers impact. “We went from about $50 million a year to about $200 million a year annual average value. That makes everybody’s eyes pop.”
So in the short term, just converting the NYC/DC markets from 10 cents to a dollar per household, is a pretty shrewd move. You basically monetize the B10 alums in those markets. However, it comes at the cost of the on-field product by adding some shit games to the schedule.
This is my concern, TV networks basically making long term decisions for short term profits. The execs who are basically driving reallignment right now don't care about whether the game will be sustainable for the next generation, because they'll be paid and retired.
I'm sure Delaney knew that streaming would end up replacing the cable TV market structure, but why should he care? That's an issue for the next commissioner.
Same thing is happening with baseball. They'd rather have empty stadiums and gouge the few remaining fans that are left than invest in the future. I love the game, but think it'll go the way of boxing and horse racing over the next 20 years.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
So what's the alternative? Pass on the revenue and hope the current teams don't start looking around? I'm sure the SEC would have made a fat offer to OSU.
Imagine if he brought in a school that didn't increase revenue and said don't worry the streaming revenue will be amazing in 15 years.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^
agree. it was short-term thinking. I grew up in that area, and there are 3 types of college fb fans.
1. Notre Dame
2. Penn Shtate
3. Giants/Jets fans.
You're not gonna get giants/jets fans to care about college fb if they dont already. Many had an allegiance to ND due to the Catholic connection and Penn Shtate (i was a fan growing up) was the closest legit team. Nobody cared or cares about rutgers in anything... But to try and convince a "pro" town like NYC (and surrounding areas) to care... especially when the product is trashatola... meh.. fool's errand.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
I grew up there too - I think in 2006 or so, "Rutgers football fans" became a thing. before that we'd go to Rutgers games as often as Princeton games, and usually because they'd give deals to the pop warner teams to put some butts in their seats. But in the first Schiano era, I do think Rutgers actually created a following for themselves. It has mostly dissipated since they joined the Big Ten, but I do know of a few poor damn diehards who don't even understand why they're obsessed.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^
Right, but the following wasn't a NYC metro area following. It was a local thing to alumni actually giving a shit... and they had that run, as you said, with Schiano the first time around.. its fizzled since then, and nobody cares even within their alumni base.
Now living in the DC area, I can say its VERY different with Maryland alums and fans who follow their team pretty solidly, though mostly as bball fans, lacrosse, soccer etc.. but they get on board when fb is going well.
August 7th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
Yeah, another New Yorker here. As I noted at the time, no one in New York metro area gives a shit about college football. It is a pro sports town. It's the only city with multiple teams in each pro league which creates divided households and real vitriol (though of course it does give the weak minded fan ability to switch to whomever the front runner may be). The college sport people did have some passion for was (is?) college basketball: St John's, the Big East tournament in the Garden. There are far more alums from the original Big East in the City than Big Ten alums, and the idea of a self-respecting New Yorker rooting for the state university of New Jersey is worthy of my Nic Cage laughing gif. No offense, TRVB but I didn't know any PSU alums or fans when I lived there. No one gave a squat for some team playing in the wilds of Pennsylvania, which, to a New Yorker, might as well be fucking Mars. New York is not the Big Ten or SEC; people will root for their alum schools only. Not like Michigan say, which has legions of non-alum fans. I can tell you that anyone in Boston that didn't go to BC HATES BC.
You are all missing the point.
It wasn't try to get people interested in Rutgers or get NYC residents to be college FB fans. The only thing that mattered was proximity to NY, which then gave the BTM a foothold into the "normal" cable package for millions of cable subscribers and thus got BTN into millions of more homes regardless of if anyone in NYC ever turned on the BTN.
Yes, it was short-term thinking if you are anticipating eventually cord-cutting and streaming, but the direct impact and benefit was pretty damn big and it had zero to do with convincing NYC residents to turn on a Rutgers game.
Plus, selfishly speaking, I also get to go to a Michigan football game every other year without hopping on an airplane or getting a hotel room... now can the Big Ten please stop scheduling Michigan basketball games at Jersey MIke's Arenas on Tuesdays at 6pm for christ's sake? Is it that hard to give Michigan at Rutgers a weekend slot just one time!
It's actually a good thing we have CBS, NBC, and Fox carrying our games now.
Sort of ironic—forward into the past. It's good for me, because I refuse to pay Comcast for anything more than the bottom tier of its offerings in A2, which means I don't get ESPN or the Big 10 network.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^
I'm over the Rutger(s) hate. They're a punching bag that I don't feel bad about punching.
August 7th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
I don't mind Rutgers since the B1G East was/is a gauntlet. I believe we're headed to a 10-game conference schedule soon, so an in-conference bodybag game is a welcome sight.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
Rutgers athletics would be hemorrhage money no matter what to be fair. I think they have a subset of ambitious athletics-focused alumni with money who want Rutgers athletics to be elevated, but against the backdrop of a largely apathetic environment (which is what basically every school in the NE corridor has to deal with) it's always going to be a struggle.
There are some pro's for Rutgers in the B1G though from the perspective of those who do want the school to be good at sports. I'm sure they've invested a ton of money to make their infrastructure more respectably befitting the status of a B1G team, which would never have happened if they hadn't joined the B1G. Northeastern schools - due to the lack of broad public support for football and thus brand power - are likely victims of the realignment shuffle and Rutgers got to relative safety just in time.
For the B1G the only pro I can see is that it did help to shift the perception of the B1G from simply a Midwestern conference to one more generally representing the "Northern" tier of collegiate athletics, which I think is probably helpful to some extent. It also permanently killed off any notion of an Eastern conference, so that's a strategic benefit for the B1G.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:07 AM ^
Rutgers is really the luckiest school in all of realignment. They would have been on the outside looking in today. Beneficiary of good timing.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^
It's become abundantly clear that the TV networks are running college football so I'll give Delany credit for seeing ahead and increasing the B1G's take from a dime to a dollar per household ~10 years ago. Rutgers sucks and basically always has but it was never about them--it was about the so-called footprint of cable providers in the NY/NJ area and beyond.
How can we kick them out, someone asks? Just wait. The superleague/NFL lite is coming, in another 10 years or so, and this just in: Rutgers won't be participating.
My question is, once the superleague gets here, if all of the big football schools get invited and few or none of the sisters of the poor get invited, won't every game be a dogfight?
There's got to be a middle ground between playing tomato cans like we currently do outside the B1G and to some extent within the conference on the one hand and playing national powers most every week.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^
i know we're supposed to be "lol, jim delaney" and all that, but the addition of rutgers and maryland was (and is) absolutely a successful decision, if you view conferences as "product," as the TV types do. their additions were necessary intermediate steps in the path to the mega-conference.
please note - i hate every last bit of this idiocy. i think this stuff is killing college football and college basketball as we know it, and i say that without hyperbole. the money that's pouring into college sports is creating an ever-wider wedge between athletic departments and the capital-U Universities they are part of, to the point where some of those departments will almost certainly, actually disengage from those schools beyond the figurative disengagement they've already completed. that disengagement is already happening at florida state, who is working with venture capitalists to try to fund the department. you can bet that the saudis are watching eagerly.
but i digress. the point being - jim delaney was hired to grow the conference and to gather as many dollars he could to the individual athletic department coffers. he did that, aesthetics, history, and common sense be damned.
August 7th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
I completely agree with these takes. Delaney, purposefully or not, positioned the B1G to be a power player in today's CFB landscape. It's all rather grotesque for us traditionalist fans who are entrenched in school fandom, but I suppose we'd be a whole lot angrier if we were Oregon/Washington/Pac-12 fans right now.
Also, we are shitting on Rutgers, and it is hilarious, but we forget that they took us to OT in 2020, and made things really uncomfortable in 2021. There have been the obliterations to which we feel entitled, but it's not like they haven't been punchy in football now and again.
Finally -- this is neither here nor there -- why no capital letters, matty blue? It's an interesting choice... Only at MGoBlog could you get thoughtful, grammatically precise college football analysis that deliberately elides capital letters...
August 7th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
ehh i don’t use capital letters unless i’m typing something for work. too lazy to hit shift key