OT (Kinda): Hate for the enthusiastic unathletic looking white guy

Submitted by UMxWolverines on
I was just thinking about the whole Hitler thing with Wagner yesterday, and then I thought about how much the Sparties despised Novak similarly. Then I thought about much we all hated guys like Aaron Craft and John Diebler, and how the country has hated guys like Grayson Allen, Greg Paulus, JJ Reddick, and Christian Laettner. ESPN even did a segment where they showed some of the over the top stuff student sections were chanting at him or signs/shirts they made. https://youtu.be/ai4-auZ18MQ I'm just curious, where does everyone think this hate comes from? Is it because it's unusual to see white guys celebrate like they do? Is it because they're just average looking dudes that end up killing your team?

Mike Damone

March 4th, 2018 at 10:12 AM ^

was a top 100 recruit in the 2015 class.  Pretty well sucked until just recently.  But seems to be coming around now.  I am guessing he is going to get a lot of minutes for the Tourney, and a lot of practicing by Sparty this week to get him some picks and open him up for threes.

But he also looks one dimensional.  Can't remember him driving the lane once yesterday.

Made me really appreciate Robinson lately - he only drove a few times, but when he did, they were huge plays!

sarto1g

March 4th, 2018 at 9:39 AM ^

There’s an underlying stereotype in sports that black athletes are “naturally gifted” while white athletes make it big because of their hard work. Hence, the Aaron Crafts of the sports world get heaps of praise for having grit, moxie, etc. this in turn drives fans away from that particular athlete (Tim Tebow, anyone?). That’s my two cents

Mmmm Hmmm

March 4th, 2018 at 9:45 AM ^

For many of those players most of the hate wasn’t about them so much as commentators hyping them so much as to be absurd. There is a Duke adder for that because of Dickie V.

N. Campus Tech

March 4th, 2018 at 10:37 AM ^

Agree. These players get hyped up, which I can only guess it becuase they are a "great white hope." They are the gritty, gym-rats, sons of coaches, yada yada.

I get sick of hearing about these medicore players getting hyped to death.

It goes back to Isiah Thomas' comments about Larry Bird. If he was black, he'd be just another guy. 

"I think there are two separate issues. The big controversy isn't about my saying professional athletes are stereotyped. The controversy is that I said Larry Bird, if he was black, would be just another good guy. But I think you all would agree that the sterotypes to exist."

"Larry definitely had to work hard to get where he is at, but so many times it's been said about black athletes that their talent is 'God-given' or that it's 'natural ability.' I had to work just as hard to get where I am. It's not God-given or instinctive. Basketball is a game where you do things over adn over again. When someone makes a great play it's not a matter of instinct, by how quickly you recall."

freelion

March 4th, 2018 at 9:48 AM ^

I pretty much universally hate white basketball players. I don't why it is but I find them douchey and annoying

ThatTCGuy

March 4th, 2018 at 9:58 AM ^

The hate has nothing to do with the color of their skin. It has more to do with commentators overhyping them (or just being a genuinely dirty player).

mackbru

March 4th, 2018 at 9:58 AM ^

It wasn’t that people hated all white players. It was more that, more often than not, they hated arrogant white players from arrogant teams that exuded a whiff of old-guard, vaguely racist-seeming teams: the Celtics, Duke, ND.

Clarence Boddicker

March 4th, 2018 at 10:30 AM ^

They're more like the upper crust antagonists in those Rodney Dangerfield comedies, like Caddyshack or Back to School. All are arrogant, cheat, are named Chaz, and have incredibly punchable faces. A lot of those  players, like the Duke guards, were also overrated and dirty as hell to boot. Grayson Allen checks all those boxes.

antidaily

March 4th, 2018 at 10:15 AM ^

People hate Grayson Allen because he plays dirty. 

The other guys are annoying rival players. I'm sure the rest of the country loved Aaron Craft's scrappy defense. And Diebler's ridiculous 3pt %.

Toby Flenderson

March 4th, 2018 at 10:27 AM ^

There is an underlying racism when it comes to  media's love for the scrappy, hard working, "White players". It is less about hate for people like Craft and Allen, but rather the love and  obession with them. Brian a few years back described it perfectly>

"I'm not here to bash Aaron Craft, but let's be clear: he is a role player. He is the apotheosis of the role player, sure, but the reason people get cranky about Aaron Craft is the never-ending hagiography for a guy who is merely a pretty good player.

There is frankly a racial component to this. You don't see people falling all over themselves to hype up Briante Weber, whose VCU team is ranked and headed for about the same seed as OSU thanks in large part to Weber's third consecutive year at the top of the Kenpom steals leaderboard. Or his teammate Shannon Scott, who is also top ten in steals. It's Craft that gets glorified as the underrated gutty gritty leader in a way that is out of proportion to his talent.

That's unfair to the his teammates and Craft himself. I've long defended the guy whenever people try to trash his game (no offense to Derrick Walton, but put Craft on this Michigan team and oh my gawd), but that's because I love guys who can make an impact without using possessions. They need to be put with high-usage guys, though—you know, stars. Craft is not that. But he comes with an avalanche of hype enough to get him on the midseason Wooden list as he leads his team to a 10-8 Big Ten record while taking 15% of OSU's shots. 

At its heart, Craft backlash is Forde-and-company backlash. Some of it's misdirected; a lot of it is from 14 year olds; everyone would be much better off if people in the media would just acknowledge that Craft is who he is. GIFs of aairballs are prominent because the media is insistent on pretending Aaron Craft is something other than what he is."

 

http://mgoblog.com/category/tags/nik-stauskas-probably-not-human

Sopwith

March 4th, 2018 at 10:50 AM ^

Perfectly good guy who played hard and tough, but the incessant hyping by every college football talking head for 4 years just dug the guy's PR grave until he became the player you most want to fail. Proseltyzing during media appearances probably didn't help the cause, but even if he'd never dropped a single religious reference, he was going to be the player people loved to hate after the media set him up like a set of pins at the Bowl-Mor.  

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

March 4th, 2018 at 11:00 AM ^

"Underlying racism" is overly harsh IMO.

Here's the thing: Black people are better at sports than white people.  Or, more precisely, people who are good at sports are more likely to be black.  It's not a stereotype when it's true, and if it weren't true, a ridiculously disproportionate number of black people (as compared to the American population) wouldn't be playing football and basketball.

White guys playing basketball is now different, and different is a story.  And of course, the media hammers stories into artificial narratives and that gets obnoxious fast.

(There is an interesting theory I once read, which is probably unprovable until someone does a really in-depth study of a huge population of human DNA.  It says that the human population that migrated out of Africa and became Asians, Europeans, native Americans, etc., took with them a random sampling of DNA.  If you have a million DNA samples that determine, say, athletic stamina, or sprinting speed, and you randomly remove a few thousand or a few tens of thousands, you're unlikely to get either the very best or very worst.  Ergo, the best runners stayed behind in Africa and passed their DNA on to Kenyan marathoners and Usain Bolt.  There's probably, therefore, a scientific basis for black people being most of the best athletes.  Also most of the worst, but mixed in with the general population, you wouldn't notice.)

ST3

March 4th, 2018 at 12:50 PM ^

Football, basketball and track, sure, but I don't see black athletes dominating Hockey, Golf, Badminton, Tennis, baseball, curling, ice skating, team handball, bobsledding, the luge, downhill skiing or numerous other sports. "White guys playing basketball is different." Not to the fans of Wisconsin basketball.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

March 4th, 2018 at 1:44 PM ^

Black people not being hockey players is a socio-economic and geographic thing.  As for baseball, there certainly are many, many people of African descent playing baseball.  Just because they're not "African-American" doesn't mean they're not black.  Those words are only interchangeable in PC-land, but there are lots of Cubans, Dominicans, and some Puerto Ricans as well, of African descent playing baseball.  Black, but not American, so they get counted as Latino and lumped in with the rest of Latin America and then people wonder why there aren't any black people in baseball anymore.  But, there was a long time there when a huge number of the best baseball players were black Americans.

Let's face it, when you list off winter sports and say black people don't dominate them, you gotta realize that Canada and Norway aren't exactly teeming with people of African descent.  When you list off sports like golf and tennis, you have to know what socioeconomic factors exist there.  And by the way, Tiger Woods, Serena Williams, and Shani Davis do awfully well in their own sports.  And P.K. Subban is a bit like the Greek Freak of hockey - a versatile matchup nightmare.

"Defining sports" is obviously going to do nothing but elicit everyone's personal criterion for sports, but here's a fact: Most basketball players are black.  So are most football players in those positions which require the most pure athleticism.  Ever seen a white cornerback?  So are the world's best sprinters and distance runners.

SalvatoreQuattro

March 4th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^

"Here's the thing: Black people are better at sports than white people.  Or, more precisely, people who are good at sports are more likely to be black."

You do realize that there are more than two sports don't you? People of African descent tend to dominate in track, American football, and basketball. People of European descent tend to dominate in hockey, swimming, field hockey, lacrosse, softball, etc. Latinos dominate in baseball and soccer.There are various measures of athleticism. Labeling blacks as athletic and whites as unathletic plays into old racist stereotypes and demeans both black and white athletes.

Secondly, not all Africans possess the same physical traits. Like Europeans there are variations in shapes and physical abilities due primarily to the environment in which they were raised.  African Americans origins are in western and central Africa. They will possess different characteristics than southern and northern Africans. Again, like Europeans. Look at Scandinvians vis a vis Italians. Very different in physical traits from color of skin and hair to height and build. We have to keep in mind that even in regions there is remarkable levels of genetic diversity. 

Thirdly, we have to keep in mind that up to 90% of all black people descended from slaves in the US have European ancestry due to the fact that slaveowners and overseers raped female slaves.  Thus, African Americans DNA will look a little different from Africans. They, like most Latinos, are a genetic blend of two different regions. For most white Americans that isn't true for obvious reasons.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

March 4th, 2018 at 1:54 PM ^

As with above, many of the sports not dominated by black people are that way because of geographical and socioeconomic reasons.  Not many black kids growing up with pond hockey in Saskatchewan.

I don't think it's demeaning at all to say that in general, most of the best athletes are black.  Labeling an individual white guy as unathletic is demeaning.  Limiting black people to the definition of athletic is demeaning.  But at some point, we have to look truth in the face and realize: hey, all the best sprinters are black, all the best distance runners are too, there are no white cornerbacks in the NFL, Dirk Nowitzki is the only white NBA superstar since Larry Bird, and so on.  What's the reason for all this?  Ignoring genetics as part of the cause would be doing a disservice to the truth, IMO.

Assigning the general properties or stereotypes of an entire race to an individual is wrong, and unfair to the individual.  But not acknowledging things that are true, just because they're uncomfortable, is dishonesty.

M Go Cue

March 4th, 2018 at 11:25 AM ^

No offense to Brian but calling Craft “merely a pretty good player” is absurd. Aaron Craft was the best ball defender in the Big Ten. He was a team leader and won 2 B1G titles in 4 years. I’m not really sure why Brian would complain about the Big Ten beat writer not mentioning VCU while writing from Indianapolis. It’s not always racism. Craft, like many many of the people listed here, was a winner and the media likes winners, and rivals hate them.

NRK

March 4th, 2018 at 11:36 AM ^

Craft got a ton of praise from announcers, which got annoying.

Craft also got the benefit of being a good defender and therefore not getting a lot of calls against him. That is insanely frustrating to watch.

 

Z actually gets some of that benefit right now on both sides of the ball, and I think being smaller helps there. But, this is bias becuase I don't care since he's on UM. Oh well.

Cali Wolverine

March 4th, 2018 at 10:30 AM ^

I have never heard anyone say they hate him. In fact his game has universally been respected and he was the gold standard for foreign basketball players for years. Never heard anyone say they hate Steve Nash. I think Michigan State fans hate Wagner because (1) he plays for Michigan, and (2) they are Michigan State fans.

Mike Damone

March 4th, 2018 at 10:34 AM ^

Speaking of white guys who are pitbulls and get under your skin - we gotta face Mathias this afternoon.  He has been terrific last couple of games, and is all over the place, constantly in motion.  And has been drilling his shots.  We need someone in his face - who is that?  As I assume that Z is covering Carsen Edwards, is it MAAR or Matthews?

Screw him - we aren't Rutgers or Penn State...

Image result for mathias purdue