OT: COVID-19 reinfection reported in Nevada patient
August 28th, 2020 at 5:24 PM ^
Fuck off, COVID-19.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:33 PM ^
Hey Covid...
August 28th, 2020 at 11:38 PM ^
So fuck China? Because it almost for sure came from their lab accidentally. But we play around with stuff the same way (actually on occasion in a worse way). So maybe fuck all of us? Go look up “gain of function research”
August 29th, 2020 at 10:07 AM ^
MODS?
August 31st, 2020 at 9:54 AM ^
Cfraser---I got alerted to your above post. No banning, but I am going to warn you against continuing to post conspiracy theory nonsense. Your clean posting history worked in your favor for now.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:30 PM ^
Maybe he'll have the same luck playing the lottery.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:35 PM ^
Great, now the antivaxxers will make sure the virus is with us forever.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:50 PM ^
Or, you know...don't rush out and be a giant guinea pig for a vaccine rushed through approvals and testing...
Or, you know...maybe in your case, please do.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:07 PM ^
Hmm I’m confused. You actually stated something logical for once.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:22 PM ^
Well, we need to hope that the vaccines create more of the part of the antibody that recognizes and fights infection, which are called Titers. Yup, we need these vaccines to create some Big Ol Titers...
August 29th, 2020 at 6:24 AM ^
How long have you been waiting to use that one?
August 29th, 2020 at 12:28 PM ^
Since 1863, Sam...
August 28th, 2020 at 7:36 PM ^
They aren’t rushing the testing or the approval process. The reason the vac development is accelerating for this is they are pre-manufacturing doses of vaccine that aren’t approved yet, in hopes that they will get approved and they they are ahead of the game manufacturing it.
obviously if it doesn’t work out that are scrapping millions of doses but the companies manufacturing the them have been compensated financially by the govt.
August 28th, 2020 at 11:25 PM ^
Dude...no long term studies on the effects...I mean...not even a few MONTHS of studies on the effects...but people are willing to put out their arm?
How the f is that not rushed?!?
August 29th, 2020 at 8:18 AM ^
Phase 1 trials began in humans back in March. Following phases began in June and July on larger scales.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html
That said, based on the timelines I've seen from scientists (not politicians), the absolute earliest I'd imagine a vaccine could be distributed would be Feb21, and even they only to high risk populations. The majoriety of us will likely not be getting a covid vaccine until Sept of 2021.
August 28th, 2020 at 7:51 PM ^
The most dangerous vaccine ever administered on a large scale, which would never be approved today... was slightly less dangerous than Tylenol.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:02 PM ^
No, nature will make sure it's with us forever. Just like a ton of other viruses.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:39 PM ^
Does not wanting to take a vaccine that doesn't work make one an antivaxer?
August 28th, 2020 at 7:45 PM ^
Right...Forgive those of us that are not sticking our head in the sand and bending over to get stuck with a vaccine that is wildly unknown in long term effects.
August 29th, 2020 at 4:53 PM ^
I mean, when do you think a vaccine would be shown safe? If we're going to wait a couple years before we take it, we might as well just get Covid now. Cuz a vaccine is the only way to stop the pandemic.
I worked in immunology way back when, I can almost guarantee this isn't going to shorten your life expectancy down the road, no matter what age you are. It can't hide dormant in the body with no observable effects and then 2 years down the road start replicating itself and turn into the plague or cancer.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:38 PM ^
How do we know it’s a true reinfection and not a false positive on one of the two tests?
shouldnt there be more stories out of 6 million cases if Covid carried a significant risk of reinfection?
August 28th, 2020 at 5:48 PM ^
Did you read the story ?
This is the second documented case. I believe the other was in Germany .
August 28th, 2020 at 5:54 PM ^
I just listened to a podcast about the first case being a man in Hong Kong (article below). It's happening. They genetically sequenced both specimens and they were different so it wasn't a lingering infection or dead particles from the first one.
And of course it's happening. Why wouldn't it? It's a virus that in a large number of people doesn't even cause a specific immune response.
There's no reason to believe it'll be much different, if at all, than other easily spread coronaviruses.
And FWIW in this case, the man had a mild initial infection and the second was completely asymptomatic.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:55 PM ^
I mean, if the test had a 0.5% false positive rate, which would be stellar for a test like this, there should be 120,000 false positive cases.
Is it that unlikely that TWO, let alone hundreds, of those people subsequently got Covid
August 28th, 2020 at 5:59 PM ^
That's not what is happening here. They have genetic material from both specimens and confirmed it's a different strain to prove two different and definitively positive cases.
And to answer your question about more stories: no, not necessarily.
For one, this has only been around for a very short period of time so there simply hasn't been enough time yet for many reinfections. But they're now trickling in.
For two, everyone will have a different "immunity" period. There's not a strict point at which, oh, you can get it again. So these initial cases are probably just at the very very far end of the tail of the distribution.
And three, there probably are more cases but just like 6 million isn't close to the true number of cases in the US, we certainly won't be documenting all reinfections.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:09 PM ^
How do you think they collected that genetic material?
from a pcr test which intrinsically carries a risk of a false positive
its a statistical impossibility for 25,000,000 tests to avoid false positives
August 28th, 2020 at 6:16 PM ^
Are you suggesting that false positives are caused by actual genetic material of the virus but not from the host? I'm not sure that's how it works. But if it is, those false positives could be ruled out with a second test. I'm pretty sure they did that before confirming these as reinfections.
There have been a ton of instances in which someone has tested positive many months apart and that were assumed to be old dead material or false positives as you suggest. And those were all dismissed because they likely weren't actual reinfections. But these haven't been dismissed because they have very good evidence that these are actual reinfections.
Why do you find it so hard to believe that this is happening? It was 100% inevitable. It was only a question of when we'd start to see them.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:26 PM ^
Because I understand how PCR tests work and that while they’re good tests, they’re not 100% accurate with both false positives and false negatives.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.26.20080911v3
different genetic materials don’t matter if the PCR test labeled a patient as having One type of genetic material by mistake
August 28th, 2020 at 6:34 PM ^
You find it hard to believe that people are becoming reinfected with a disease that literally every expert knew with certainty would be possible, because you know about PCR tests? That doesn't make sense.
Your theory about this being a false positive happens. It's what has happened in the majority of suspected reinfections.
But it's not whats happening here, or the one in Hong Kong, or the one in Belgium or the one in the Netherlands, etc.
The Reno case was symptomatic in both infections. There wasn't a false positive involved. The science here is sound.
Here's a story about all those.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/28/covid-19-reinfection-implications/
August 28th, 2020 at 6:44 PM ^
Huh?
its not a “belief” that PCR tests produce false positives
August 28th, 2020 at 6:54 PM ^
You're really bad at this, bud.
No one is saying that. Yes, most of the previous suspected reinfections were just testing anomalies or inconclusive. I've said that like twice already.
You can keep thinking that's the case here but it's not and you'll start to see more and more reinfections, because obviously.
August 29th, 2020 at 6:49 AM ^
I mean no offense, but you are failing to grasp the connection.
just take a deep breath think about this rather resorting to ad hominem replies.
1) pcr tests can produce false positives
2) pcr tests can label patients as having a genetic strain of Covid WHEN THEY IN FACT DONT HAVE COVID.
3) a couple patients our of TWENTY FIVE MILLION tested positive for one strain of Covid and then another strain of Covid
Why are you so certain that the method of PCR collection and analysis for this patient was some magical foolproof means of genetic code collection that somehow avoided the intrinsic limitations of the test ?
because NBC wrote an article about it?
i don’t understand how you can acknowledge false positive PCR tests but say that this one patient had 0 shred of doubt for his diagnosis which was made BY PCR TESTING
August 29th, 2020 at 10:31 AM ^
The diagnostic test isn’t what they use to do the DNA sequencing. The diagnostic answers “yes/no”. The sequencing tells us the nucleotides. If it were a false positive, the sequencing attempt would fail utterly.
It’s like testing positive for pregnancy from checking urine, versus blood, versus actually looking at the embryo.
August 29th, 2020 at 7:57 PM ^
Exactly what Markley said and what I said several times. And you clearly didn't read any of the scientific articles I shared (not NBC, bud) and clearly didn't grasp any of my points.
They didn't just have a simple PCR yes/no test, they had the genetic specimens from both tests. They literally sequenced them side by side and determined 37 nucleotides to be different to conclude it was a different infection. You can't do that if one of the specimens is not SARS-CoV2. You don't just "mislabel" the genetic material that is clearly the genetic material of SARS-CoV2 as verified by a genetic sequencing (NOT a PCR test).
I thought you were a science guy. Read the science, bud.
Also, my telling you that you are bad at this was not an hominem argument. When you failed to comprehend the basic reading of my argument and continued to make poor arguments, it was simply a matter of fact I was pointing out that you are bad at reading comprehension and making arguments. It was separate from my (sound) arguments, it was not the basis of my arguments which is what an ad hominem argument is.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:17 PM ^
The difference between 1 vs 2 repeat cases over 24.5M worldwide cases is not statistically significant, yet. Hopefully a trend doesn’t develop.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:17 PM ^
Agreed on all accounts. First giveaway this is widely overblown and under investigated is that it’s a yahoo link.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:21 PM ^
I agree, this seems to be an outlier rather than something to be really concerned about
August 28th, 2020 at 5:43 PM ^
This isn’t a surprise. People get reinfected with the flu.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:30 PM ^
Well, not really that unsurprising though, since there are many viruses you get lifetime or near lifetime immunity to, like chicken pox or measles. The flu is notorious for its ability to mutate, so while you can "get it twice," you are really getting sick with very different flu viruses. And two confirmed cases only? I would not call this a "slam dunk" for widespread reinfection...
August 28th, 2020 at 6:49 PM ^
Those viruses are DNA viruses that remain in your body. They are very different from coronaviruses in so many ways. So I don't know why people keep bringing up those viruses as if they're at all relevant.
We know things about coronaviruses that are very similar to this one. And based on that knowledge, most experts agreed that immunity would last maybe 1-3 years. So it's not at all surprising we're starting to see some outliers after a few months. Especially when we know that some cases are so mild that they don't induce a specific immune response.
No one said anything about "widespread" reinfection though. This is almost certainly just some initial outlier reinfections.
August 29th, 2020 at 6:42 AM ^
They’re rna viruses actually
August 29th, 2020 at 8:16 PM ^
Well, we're both partially right and partially wrong. Chicken pox is a DNA virus, Measles is an RNA virus. Point remains that they're structurally and chemically very different than coronaviruses.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:44 PM ^
These could be outlying, rare cases. I wouldn't get into a panic yet.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:55 PM ^
That's what they said in January.....
August 28th, 2020 at 6:06 PM ^
That picture is just a little bit inflammatory don’t you think?
Overall, this is to be expected and the relatively low number of reinfection cases at this point is a good sigh.
Here is a good article relevant to the subject.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/25/four-scenarios-on-how-we-might-develop-immunity-to-covid-19/
Also Biden 2020. https://joebiden.com/
August 28th, 2020 at 6:22 PM ^
Fair enough, I'll be transparent and remove the graphic and Jonestown quote as it might not be the same translation. but the post is true otherwise.
August 28th, 2020 at 7:18 PM ^
Please relax about this. There have been tens of millions of documented cases for half of a year now. This is the first confirmed reinfection. Think about that
August 28th, 2020 at 7:51 PM ^
It's not the first confirmed reinfection though. And of course it was going to happen later on. People who survived were going to develop at least some kind of immunity. Does seem reinfection likely means even less harm though than before.
August 28th, 2020 at 7:58 PM ^
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but lets say worst case scenario, this reinfection thing is real and its going to impact everyone.
If you've already recovered from it once, shouldn't the body immune system be able to adapt and be able to fight it off more effectively, and therefore side effects be more managable?
Also, lets say the above isn't true, a vaccine can still be effective. Lets say 50% of people get the vaccine and antibodies only last a handful of months. We can still work with that as it will drastically reduce the amount of Corona spread to the point where we should be able to handle and manage it more effectively (especially with better testing thats coming out).
Also if we can get a vaccine that is somewhat effective, we can adapt it into one that you take every year, like a flu shot.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:53 PM ^
I agree with this.
Add to it the advent of drugs based on monoclonal "lab manufactured" antibodies for prevention and treatment. This can certainly be overcome.