TrueBlue2003

January 19th, 2018 at 10:27 PM ^

is a brewery that makes a lot of beers and their flagship is their Pale Ale (which is probably what you're referring to).

You're correct that Bell's Oberon, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and I would add Sam Adam's Boston Lager were similarly considered "great" craft beers because they were among the few widely available/mainstream. 

They don't really suffer from a perception problem now, though.  They aren't actually great beers, per se.  They were purposely made to be palatable to basic mainstream tastes at the time so as to be approachable.  They were what I call "gateway beers".

Those particular brews are now considered mediocre by Americans because American tastes have evolved to realize that there is much better out there.  Good beers have been available for hundreds of years (and were actually available in America prior to WWII), but almost no Americans appreciated them 20 years ago.

I do think that Sierra Nevada and Boston Beer Company (Sam Adam's) have a bit of a perception problem because they took that route of mass producing their flagships and became big brands.  They both actually make some pretty good beers and have a huge range.

Joined: 01/05/2010

MGoPoints: 38075

Brian Griese

January 19th, 2018 at 6:00 PM ^

But have been to Founder’s many times. This is like splitting hairs, but I would go with Bells. Also, my favorite newbie Brewery is Greyline in Grand Rapids, everyone should check it out.

Joined: 10/25/2014

MGoPoints: 30240

MainStreetMagic

January 19th, 2018 at 6:04 PM ^

Beer for beer, Founders wins my taste buds. Backwoods Bastard is exceptional. I’m a little behind the times though, having lived out of state for 5 years or so. All I can get is Founders and the occasional New Holland Dragon’s Milk. Fortunately for me though, California has no shortage of phenomenal breweries, and I’m a long day trip from Russian River BC. Mmmmmmm Pliny The Elder.

Joined: 09/08/2013

MGoPoints: 1524

TrueBlue2003

January 19th, 2018 at 6:26 PM ^

such that they only do about a third of them well.  Huma is solid and they have a couple other good beers, but grab a random Short's off the shelf and it's likely to be meh or worse (I know because I used to do this with mix and match 6 packs so I could try all their offerings).

They get too weird and chase variety at the expense of quality.

Joined: 01/05/2010

MGoPoints: 38075

Arb lover

January 19th, 2018 at 8:29 PM ^

It was actually a funeral home chapel, but for all intensive purposes it feels, smells, and looks like what trappist chapel should look like, or some 18th century German church.

But on that irreverence topic, monks, sir, monks!

Joined: 11/26/2017

MGoPoints: 6915

TrueBlue2003

January 19th, 2018 at 11:07 PM ^

I stand corrected.  Still, it was a former place of prayer. 

And yes, Belgian monks are arguably the best brewers in the world, which is ironic/irreverant.  I thought I read that the trappist monks don't consume their own beer and only brew(ed) it to sustain the monasteries?

Joined: 01/05/2010

MGoPoints: 38075

TrueBlue2003

January 19th, 2018 at 11:33 PM ^

in my opinion, of course, the best in the world.  They are the best because of hundreds of years of perfecting their style and they're very yeast forward and only Belgian yeast in  that region can sustain the specific yeast strains they use.  Even though we have replicas, they're still not the same.

So those styles are incredibly difficult to replicate at such high quality.  I think Vivant does a pretty good job of it.  They're probably only a tier below the Ommegang's and Allagash's in terms of getting close.

Joined: 01/05/2010

MGoPoints: 38075

Shadowban

January 19th, 2018 at 6:19 PM ^

Founders us all about IPAS, whiskey barrel aged beers, syrupy dark beers and other weird stuff. They seem to have abandoned pale ales, lagers, and pilsners (their pilsner is more like an IPA). Fruit beers, IPAs and whiskey barrel aged beers don't appeal to me at all. Bell's makes a lot of beers with different flavor profiles, and I love them for it. But when I'm at the store I see (literally) rows and rows of fruit beers from breweries I've never heard of, with names riffing off of some slang term for weed, with some weird design on the bottle, retailing for $13.99+ per sixer. No thanks

Joined: 09/17/2015

MGoPoints: 2124

SFWolverine

January 19th, 2018 at 6:23 PM ^

I'm a Michigan native living in Boston.  I am NOT a New Englander by any stretch of the imagination, but the very best thing to come out of New England these days is the New England (hazy) IPA.  M-43 from Old Nation is a darn good NE IPA ... as good as any I've had.  It's the best Michigan beer in my opinion.  

NE IPAs are just my thing though .... I think most Founder's beers are good but not great .. and Two Hearted is the one other MIchigan beer that I really enjoy.     

Joined: 10/05/2010

MGoPoints: 34

a2bluefan

January 19th, 2018 at 11:27 PM ^

I'm one that has always hated IPAs. But I tried a NEIPA for the first time (Defloured by Witch's Hat in South Lyon, MI) a while back and had to have more. M-43 is very good, but a little overhyped, IMO (it has gotten a LOT of hype, and the price tag for a 4-pak reflects that). If you come back, try to get your hands on the following, ranked in order of my favorites... again, just my opinion.

Perrin (near GR) Cosmic Apparition
Witch's Hat Defloured
Witch's Hat This Guy (Imperial version of Defloured - 8% ABV)
I'd put M-43 here in my ranking
Wolverine (A2) Shore Storm
Rochester MIlls Juice Bigalow Hop Gigolo
Griffin Claw (Birmingham) Nawt A Cawp  - the haziest of all of these

Joined: 12/29/2008

MGoPoints: 2760

todder0021

January 19th, 2018 at 6:28 PM ^

begins in WI when Oberon goes on sale. Love Two Hearted as well, but agree that Founders might get the overall edge. What are the thoughts on Three Floyds? Yeah, I know it's an Indiana brewery, but man!

Joined: 09/03/2014

MGoPoints: 63

ChaserPlus

January 19th, 2018 at 6:34 PM ^

Bells has to be my favorite. They have so many great beers. New Holland is close behind, but all the beer I get as an employee may be skewing my judgement. Also, a shout-out to Greenbush for Star Chicken Shotgun.

Joined: 09/20/2014

MGoPoints: 185

TrueBlue2003

January 19th, 2018 at 7:20 PM ^

overall. I think they're more creative and interesting than the big boys (Bell's and Founder's), and do a much better job of executing that creativity than Short's.

Kuhnhenn's doesn't have the range of the big boys but they do what they do better than anyone does anything in the state (probably not a coincidence as they focus on what they do best).

Brewery Vivant has the best atmosphere at a brewpub.

I do think Bell's does really solid execution of a lot of styles such that their combo of offerings that are accessible and affordable is unbeatable (accessibility something that odd side currently lacks). Founder's is behind Bell's in this regard, IMO.

Joined: 01/05/2010

MGoPoints: 38075

blueday

January 19th, 2018 at 6:38 PM ^

Weekly throw down at Ashleys Westland ... was in Toronto too much last year but partaking again. Oddsides won this week!!!

Joined: 11/04/2014

MGoPoints: 6493

2heartedUM

January 19th, 2018 at 6:50 PM ^

Bell's kills Founders with IPA's and sour's. I'd rather drink PBR then All day IPA. But there's so many options now. I live in kazoo and many friends work for Bells. So that's where my loyalities lie.

Joined: 11/24/2011

MGoPoints: 426

TrueBlue2003

January 19th, 2018 at 11:38 PM ^

checks out.

Totally agree that Two Hearted and Hopslam are better than anything Founder's is doing in the IPA realm.  All Day is super overrated (although I do have a 15-pack in my fridge for a party tomorrow because it's cheap and I don't mind giving it away but it's a (small) step up from Bud Light).

Joined: 01/05/2010

MGoPoints: 38075

2heartedUM

January 19th, 2018 at 6:50 PM ^

Bell's kills Founders with IPA's and sour's. I'd rather drink PBR then All day IPA. But there's so many options now. I live in kazoo and many friends work for Bells. So that's where my loyalities lie.

Joined: 11/24/2011

MGoPoints: 426