Momentum building for adding W Ice Hockey as D1 sport at UM?
A recent tweet by Jordan Acker, one of the UM regents:
As many here already know, Michigan is one of only two schools in the Big Ten that has D1 men's hockey but not women's (msu being the other - I refuse to count ND as Big Ten, but they also lack women's hockey at this level)... despite being in one of the most fertile recruiting states for female hockey players.
A recent Daily article on the matter: https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/as-womens-hockey-grows-michigans-absence-is-glaring/
And from Hockey News: https://thehockeynews.com/womens/college/lack-of-michigan-ncaa-teams-a-loss-for-womens-hockey
osu and minn have been dominant for many of the past years in this sport, leaning heavily on players from MI (wisc does as well).
While there are some logistical challenges to making this happen, momentum *has* been building in recent years... maybe the tipping point will come soon.
January 18th, 2024 at 1:01 PM ^
The realities of NIL and the portal dictate that spending models need to be amended to reflect what is happening in the revenue sports. Adding expensive, non-revenue sports to the mix at this point in time would seem to fly in the face of accounting logic.
Of course, if Michigan got its true worth from its football TV revenue., there might be lots more money to go around.
January 18th, 2024 at 11:21 AM ^
We are a non-profit after all. Of course the made money is spent. It's often spent on facility upgrades like Yost would require for women's ice hockey.
Over that time frame I believe the athletic department has built or upgraded facilities for football, basketball, ice hockey, soccer, wrestling, field hockey, rowing, gymnastics, lacrosse, track, softball, golf, and added the sports performance center.
The increase in revenue from the new media rights deal will either go toward paying players, upgrading facilities for sports not listed (volleyball, swimming, water polo, tennis), building facilities for new sports, or starting back over with sports that already received upgrades.
Only so much can go into Warde's or Jim's pocket.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:35 AM ^
Take budget releases by schools like UM with a massive grain of salt. They are inclined to spend as much money as possible each year, and sometimes just for its own sake because you are incentivized to spend your entire budget because if not you are more likely to have that budget cut in the future.
If UM wanted to field a D1 women's hockey program, they could and no other team or group would be demonstrably hurt in the process. For example, here's a breakdown of the women's hockey program at OSU - they spent around $2.5M and brought in around $100k. Men cost around $3M and brought in around $1M. I can't find UM's numbers but I assume UM brought in a bit more and cost about the same - travel costs, tuition, etc. are pretty standard while UM's hockey program draws more people is my guess. So it's something but we're talking about an AD that has ~$215M a year budgeted for sports, and a ton of that goes to a couple of sports. So we're talking about 1% of that budget needs to be found in order to pay for women's hockey, and I assume they could also get gifts from outside boosters as well. So yeah, the money's there if they want to spend it.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:50 AM ^
This is good stuff. I don't think it's true that there is money there that is not on the table, but I can't prove that ( you can't prove the non-existence of something whose definition does not rely on linguistics.) But women get the short end of the stick without argument. If what you say is true, then we are probably calling out a bias to women's sport. Acker's turn around comes from somewhere. I wish there was more to that.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:52 AM ^
So we're talking about 1% of that budget needs to be found in order to pay for women's hockey, and I assume they could also get gifts from outside boosters as well. So yeah, the money's there if they want to spend it.
Unfortunately it's not nearly this simple. If it was just a matter of the annual cost of a women's team, I'm pretty sure they would have started one years (decades?) ago. The issue is startup cost. As I and others have mentioned, it's been repeatedly stated that Yost is not equipped to support a second team (certainly not at the moment, and potentially not ever). At best, maybe you can find a way to add enough to Yost to support a second team (taking out part of the parking lot is probably the only option; do you replace it with underground parking?), but that won't be cheap. And even then, it's possible that you'd still need an off-campus rink for training/practice. At worst, you'd need to build another arena, either as a standalone arena for the women, or as a complete replacement for Yost. You're looking at likely $10M+ at best, to likely over $100M if you want to replace Yost. That's a major outlay, on top of the logistical nightmares (there's no good place to put any of this anyway). An expensive headache is the easiest way to have what might seem like a simple proposal (add a women's team) languish for years with no progress whatsoever...
January 18th, 2024 at 12:18 PM ^
i'm an architect, and i can tell you that there are any number of architectural firms that could come up with a master plan to upgrade yost to meet the needs of the men's program AND a women's program, if we ever decide to do it. we should explore an facility upgrade regardless.
we upgraded crisler to meet new needs, and we did the same at michigan stadium. just throwing up our hands and saying "yost bad" isn't a valid discussion point.
January 18th, 2024 at 2:55 PM ^
$100m is light for a replacement of Yost….which is what this is going to take. I highly doubt that they’re going to build a new facility for the women and leave the men in a 100 year old barn, that, frankly, is getting rickety and nearing the end of its useful life.
IIRC the Pegoulas (I’m not checking the spelling) ponied up over $100m to PSU for their arena about a decade ago. If they’re going to do it right, the price for a replacement for Yost is likely in the $150m neighborhood.
January 18th, 2024 at 11:53 AM ^
Day-to-day, yes, but as discussed upthread, the really big issue is the start-up cost includes massive and expensive facility work.
January 18th, 2024 at 9:51 AM ^
It's an embarrassment there's no DI women's hockey in Michigan - the state with the most DI men's hockey teams. If my alma mater won't start one, I'd at least like to see Michigan do it.
January 18th, 2024 at 9:52 AM ^
this should already be done.
January 18th, 2024 at 9:57 AM ^
Am I the only one who think that schools have spent too much resource on non-revenue varsity sports which have little benefit for vast majority of the students.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:05 AM ^
I'm with you kyeblue! Let's simplify and focus on intramurals that benefit more students.
January 18th, 2024 at 12:15 PM ^
Itd be cool to have a womens team...but theres pretty obvious reasons why it hasnt happened and maybe why it shouldnt happen
- Say $10-100M in start up costs for facility upgrades
- For a sport thatll lose/cost a few million dollars a year
- Which will probably see a few hundred fans on a typical gameday
- For a student athlete population that is coming from almost entirely affluent backgrounds
- In a time where operating expenses are likely to rise as revenue sharing becomes a reality
Itd be cool to happen if it was just a matter of moving up to D1. If I had a vote, I'd probably vote no on it though for the reasons above.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:08 AM ^
As much as we all love our old barn, we desperately need a new hockey facility. A 100 year old basketball arena isn’t really a great facility for 2024.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:28 AM ^
You bite your tongue. You wanna replace Fenway and Wrigley too??
January 18th, 2024 at 2:16 PM ^
The truth is that Fenway and Wrigley are both decent examples of the Ship of Theseus.
The same can be true of Yost. It's all about the money.
January 19th, 2024 at 4:21 PM ^
Yost is absolutely iconic. Apart from the Mac, there's no place I'd rather watch a hockey game. There's got to be a way to save the building and bring it up to modern standards.
You are right, though, that the more I hear about the player experience at Yost, the more it feels like something needs to be done.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:23 AM ^
Once Michigan finds a way to make it happen, I think it'll result in a few dominos in state where other universities start programs as well. It's always eyebrow raising to see that Michigan of all states has no women's D1 hockey programs
I don't know what that's going to look like. A new arena? Trying to build an extension with another small rink + lockerrooms onto Yost? When it happens, it'll reverberate through D1 women's hockey. That puts the Big Ten at 5 D1 teams. That could result in MSU or someone else adding it and then the Big Ten is gonna form their own league again. You might see other Michigan D1 programs start up. (I'd rather see Michigan join the CHA and that would leave an opening for other Michigan D1 programs to have a home). It'll be a big event when it happens
January 18th, 2024 at 10:36 AM ^
A smaller league local to the north is the best way to reduce travel costs initially. Getting the directionals and tech in Michigan would be ideal. It is leadership and vision that is required if we go with the "Do it anyway!" crowd. Women's hockey isn't going to pay for itself anytime soon. But there is a social justice take and a field of dreams "If you build it, they will come!" take that resonate for sure.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:55 AM ^
This doesn't need to be "Big Ten" women's hockey - osu and the others play in smaller regional D1 conferences anyway. Travel costs and logistics should be less daunting.
January 18th, 2024 at 12:12 PM ^
I think the issue is the same as it was for men's hockey- the Big Ten bylaws (or whatever) stipulate that they'll form a league for any sport that has 6+ teams. I don't know if thats changed
January 19th, 2024 at 4:29 PM ^
There are 7 DI hockey schools in Michigan: Tech, Northern, Lake State, Ferris, Western, MSU, and UM.
There's no way LSSU starts a women's program given the university's financial state. Ferris needs to care more about their men's program before it's plausible they'd start a women's one.
The others I could see being interested. The problem is that if UM and MSU add programs, they're obligated by Big Ten bylaws to form a Big Ten conference, so this particular group of 5 schools can't form a new conference together. Tech, Northern, and Western have to go join other conferences. Conveniently, the Big Ten forming would open up 3 spots in the WCHA (OSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota). So maybe if you got the Big Ten and WCHA to team up you could get something going? Sounds ambitious.
January 18th, 2024 at 10:27 AM ^
If they do this they MUST add men's volleyball too!!
January 18th, 2024 at 10:40 AM ^
I don't really understand this to be honest. There is more support for Ultimate in the student body. Handball has a bigger impact worldwide. Why Men's Volleyball? Just curious.
January 18th, 2024 at 1:01 PM ^
Why? Because I am biased. My sons play volleyball (club and high school) and it is awesome.
Ohio State and Penn State both already have varsity men's volleyball.
So do USC and UCLA.
Add Michigan and 1 or 2 other schools and it can be a Big Ten sport.
January 18th, 2024 at 3:33 PM ^
This is both fair and honest.
I wasn't aware of professional options in VB, but thanks to this post I am. Beach volleyball is a real thing as well. I will be less critical going forward. Thanks for the get back.
January 18th, 2024 at 11:04 AM ^
Jordan Acker sure does a lot of regenting by social media.
January 18th, 2024 at 11:22 AM ^
Regents are elected officials and this is better than radio silence.
January 18th, 2024 at 11:26 AM ^
Live by the sword die by the sword. You are only one post away from early retirement these days.
January 18th, 2024 at 11:35 AM ^
I think mens hockey will move out of Yost soon. It's a 100 year old facility.
January 18th, 2024 at 11:58 AM ^
What is the old Indoor Track Building being used for now? Anything? Would it be possible put a rink it?
January 18th, 2024 at 3:37 PM ^
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/u-m-indoor-track-building-closes-after-43-seasons
January 18th, 2024 at 12:11 PM ^
nice to think college athletics could morph itself back into college athletics. seems like a no brainerd to me.
January 18th, 2024 at 12:36 PM ^
I think this would be great. I know Ice Hockey isn't as popular as soccer, basketball, or diamond sports or even flag football - but Michigan does have a strong culture of youth hockey and so UofM should absolutely have a women's hockey program.
I kinda also think we should have a women's wrestling program - but I can agree that it is culturally less important to most Michiganders. But it also would contribute to more medals for Team USA so...let's get it!
January 18th, 2024 at 1:21 PM ^
I think you are underestimating how popular hockey is in MI.
January 18th, 2024 at 2:49 PM ^
Definitely possible, but I know at least once upon a time the cost of hockey was a pretty formidable barrier for entry. I think that's the main reason I'm estimating it's a bit less popular than the others. That said I know youth sports in general have gotten way expensive since I was a kid.
January 18th, 2024 at 12:51 PM ^
A new company took over ownership and management of the Ice Cube (and now KV in Brighton). If the U wanted to do a deal on expanding the Cube to add additional practice sheets so that Yost could be reserved for varsity practice and games only, now would be the time.
January 18th, 2024 at 1:10 PM ^
Going to be hard to pay PS to the the football players who drive the revenue for the entire ADept. when you keep adding expensive non-revenue sports.
Just sayin'...
January 18th, 2024 at 1:21 PM ^
So glad to see this MIGHT happen and it should!
GO BLUE!
January 18th, 2024 at 1:23 PM ^
While I'm not going to pretend I would follow the women's team as closely as the men's team, I have absolutely been wanting this for years. Not that it means anything, but I absolutely want to win a Director's Cup and adding Women's hockey would absolutely increase our chances of doing that.
January 18th, 2024 at 1:30 PM ^
Thanks for all the positive comments about women's hockey at Michigan. Those of us involved in the women's club team are doing all we can to establish a D1 varsity team. Money, facilities, and gender balance (adding a men's sport to offset the additional female student-athletes) are all challenges to be addressed.
Folks can help demonstrate support for women's hockey by attending one of our upcoming games at Yost. We are currently ranked #4 in the ACHA (D1 club level) and have a home game versus #3 rated Adrian (yes, that Adrian to the south of us) on 1/28 at 4:00 PM. Nothing says women's hockey belongs at UM more than fans in the stands!
Go Blue!
Joe Upton--Assistant Coach, Michigan Women's Ice Hockey
January 18th, 2024 at 6:02 PM ^
Ice hockey is--without question--the best sport, and thank you for bringing it to Michigan. I wish I could commute from DC to see you guys play. I hope my next trip to Ann Arbor can include a B1G women's ice hockey game!
January 18th, 2024 at 5:59 PM ^
Let's go....Blue! Adding any hockey is a plus, and women's college hockey is really fun to watch.
It will only get better going forward too. They're going to get rid of the antiquated no-check thing soon and it will be fantastic.
January 18th, 2024 at 6:46 PM ^
I donated to the womens hockey program. Hope they are adopted as a full varsity sport soon, I've got a niece in Cleveland who will he ready to wear the block M in about 8 years.