"Michigan is a spiritual team." Jim Harbaugh
I found it interesting that a number of the leaders on the team made a point to give credit to God, and to praise the spiritual atmosphere on the team. Here are several quotes, and links:
The coaches, they’re incredible. It's a happy locker room as you can imagine, but they're down there giving thanks to God. I told you this: It’s a spiritual team. And they're happy. They’re celebrating but they’re giving thanks.
LINK: Harbaugh postgame interview, Nov. 26
This isn't anything new. Harbaugh regularly used personal time to go on service trips to Peru. When the team went to Italy, including the Vatican in Rome, Harbaugh said:
"The role that (faith) plays in my life is in the priorities that I have," he said April 26, "faith, then family, then football."
LINK: Jim Harbaugh, Catholic News Agency, Apr. 26, 2017
This came in the time he was able to personally present some Michigan shoes to Pope Francis.
Harbaugh humbly wanted to give all the credit to the team. He left the immediate field interviewer with JJ McCarthy to go fetch Donovan Edwards. When Edwards was asked about his performance, his first words were:
“First and foremost, all praises to the Lord,” he said. “He blessed us to be able to come play in this game. All of us who played in the game, we came out healthy and we got the victory. So all praises to the Lord.”
LINK: Donovan Edwards, Sports Spectrum, Nov. 28, 2022
Edwards had a lot more to say, with Detroit WXYZ-TV and in the postgame conference:
“The Lord has blessed us to be capable of a lot,” he said. “We trust in God, we trust in each other; we have love for the Lord and we have love for each other. … We give glory to the Lord at the end of the game. . . . The reason I was able to do what I did is because of the Lord. I pray all the time and I talk to God all the time. He told me this is going to be our game for us, that I was going to have a breakout game.”
JJ McCarthy, as many of you know, is very generous with NIL money. Among other things:
JJ For the Kids supports a number of children’s hospitals across the country. Originally started after an interaction with a young fan, McCarthy’s foundation was founded “as a way to make a difference in the lives of kids in my communities, in the Chicagoland area and in Ann Arbor.” The foundation has branched out to also support the ChadTough and Oxford Strong foundations.
LINK: JJ McCarthy donates NIL Money to O-Line and to Charity
But more than that, JJ is an incredibly centered young man, who spends 40 minutes a day in meditation, and 10 minutes before every game.
Somewhere between leading Michigan's offense, being a college student, navigating a handful of NIL projects, and attending various events, the 19-year-old finds 40 minutes daily to close his eyes and meditate.
"I (meditate) every single day, twice a day," McCarthy said following Michigan's 59-0 win over UConn. "Before the game, it's about getting into that present moment and finding that flow. I wake up, and I'll meditate for 30 minutes. And as everyone sees out by the field goal post, I'll meditate for 10 more minutes before the game."
LINK: JJ McCarthy's X-Factor is daily meditation
The star of the team, Blake Corum, is also spiritual. As a boy, working for his Dad's landscaping business, his father shared:
“Blake always wanted to put some of his money that he earned in the church offering,” his father, James Corum, said in a telephone interview Monday. “Everything he does on and off the field, it just makes me proud to have him as my son.”
This continues with using NIL money to help the local Ypsi Community:
A day after hurting his left knee in a win over Illinois, he used funds from name, image and likeness deals to donate 300 turkeys, green beans, apple sauce, milk, a winter hat and hand sanitizer to families in Superior Township and Ypsilanti, Michigan.
Corum is humble, and not looking for credit, or just for good PR:
“The impressive part is, he’s not just out here as a volunteer doing the work, he’s writing the check,” said Bilal Saeed, who assists Corum on community service initiatives and NIL deals.
Corum, who also donated hundreds of turkeys last year, had to be convinced that publicly sharing what he does in the community served a greater good than worrying some people may think he’s trying to get credit for his charitable efforts.
LINK: Michigan RB Blake Corum gives thanks during Ohio State week
Of course, as fans, we're going to focus on the X's and the O's out on the field. We will see the 2nd win in two years against OSU. But on the team, particularly with the leaders, their focus is on the strength they get from God, and in being humble, working together as a team.
There has been a lot of talk about the "culture" of the team. And about the culture elsewhere. I'll just say that in their interviews and comments, Jim Harbaugh, JJ McCarthy, Blake Corum, Donovan Edwards and many others are happy to spell out what that culture is.
November 29th, 2022 at 6:41 PM ^
I wanted to mention the spiritual angle too, thanks for bringing it up. Definitely got a lot of spiritual guys on the team.
November 29th, 2022 at 6:55 PM ^
I wouldn’t conflate McCarthy meditating or giving to charity as the same as being religious.
Most people are religious, so I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Although the team prayer right after the OSU win looked kind of forced, but the non believers just kind of put up with it probably. You just kind of learn you have to do that a lot in society if you are an atheist or agnostic.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:09 PM ^
It used to be most. But upwards of 30% of US adults now identify as have no specific religion, up from 5% 50 years ago. And that number doesn’t include religious non-Christians.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/09/13/how-u-s-religious-compo…
November 29th, 2022 at 9:18 PM ^
True, but that is still most people. IDK, I've learned to just suck it up and accept it and not make a big fuss and I'd guess that is what the players do. "In God we Trust" is on our currency even. It is everywhere in society.
I do think the prayer right after the OSU game looked bad, though. That was right after all of the team was together and jumping and down and celebrating and then immediately after that, Harbaugh called for a quick prayer. There was no choice but for a non-believer to partake in that, so he basically forced it on everyone. My guess would be the non believers just don't say any of the words- that's what I do when my family at holidays says grace before their meals.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:01 PM ^
Had to log in to Instagram just to see the Clemmons video. How cool was that. Interesting look into how Harbaugh praises not only God but the efforts of all of his players and coaches. The gameball ceremony, the Victors, and the Great to be a Michigan Wolverine chant.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:10 PM ^
Eh, a certain brand of mocking secularism and open hostility to religion is embraced by many of the academic staff at the University (at least that was my experience in the 5+ years I spent at UofM). I'm fine with someone like Harbaugh evening things out a bit.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:27 PM ^
+1
A lot of open anti-Semitism displayed by staff as well.
November 29th, 2022 at 8:19 PM ^
Was this across any particular college? I'm an Ypsitucky boy as well and don't recall religion or secularism ever coming up inside the classroom with the exception of a student in an astronomy course who wanted to argue with the professor against the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe based entirely on scripture. But there was no hostility displayed or mocking involved.
My coursework was in engineering with my humanities electives were in psych and classic civ, so perhaps it's more noticeable in other departments.
As for antisemitism, I only witnessed it from students... and it was only a handful of times.
November 29th, 2022 at 8:32 PM ^
No hostility, just don’t think one should force his/her religion on others. Especially someone in an authority position. Stick to ball Harbs.
November 29th, 2022 at 10:52 PM ^
Bob, serious question. Tell me what it is to "force his/her religion on others?" Because that isn't clear to me.
Let me use an analogy. I assume you love Michigan. In loving Michigan, would you strongly recommend that your children, or the children of your friends, consider going to Michigan? Would you share fond memories of Michigan, if you attended Michigan? Would you proudly wear Michigan apparel? Of course you would.
Here's where you would cross the line to "forcing." If you told your kids, "I'll pay for your tuition . . . if you go to Michigan. But if you go to OSU or MSU, you're on your own . . . you won't have a dime of support from me." If you had two kids, with one of them going to Michigan and one of them somewhere else, would you tell your kids, "I'm leaving the bulk of my inheritance to anyone with a degree from Michigan."
What it seems that you're proposing is that you be entirely private about your Michigan fandom. You would never sing the Victors out loud. You wouldn't wear Michigan apparel. You wouldn't share about your positive experiences at Michigan, because you don't want to "force" or "coerce" your kids into going there. You would tell your kids, "it doesn't matter where you go. It's totally up to you." And if your kids were accepted to Michigan, MSU, OSU, EMU, and Washtenaw Community College," you would say, "they're all good choices. You decide. I don't want you to feel forced or coerced."
To say nothing positive about Michigan would be ludicrous. It would make complete sense to try to influence others about Michigan. BUT . . . you know and I know that ultimately, your kids and others need to decide for themselves, and you can't force them to go somewhere they don't believe in.
Aren't Harbaugh, and Edwards, and others, doing the same thing? They don't need to force their beliefs on Jews or Atheists or Muslims or Mormons. More specifically, Mica Gelb loves Michigan, and doesn't pray with the team, even though he is Jewish. If Giovanni El-hadi is Muslim, I haven't heard a peep of discrimination against him. Andrew Gentry is a Mormon, but he was glad to join the team There certainly is room for religious diversity on the Michigan team.
November 30th, 2022 at 11:29 AM ^
You posting this weird touting of your religious beliefs on a board dedicated to Michigan athletics is exactly the type of forced stuff he is referring to.
Count me as one of those atheists/agnostics who is constantly put in a position where I have to openly object or silently pretend I'm going along with some type of group prayer.
To try and put it in terms you might understand, what if I was the coach and I frequently gathered all the players in the room and invited them all to spend the next few minutes chanting that there is no god and asking everyone to speak some words confirming that to each other? I can guarantee you there would be several religious people that would have to just stand there in silence while it occurred over and over again.
Sure, people that believe in a god can choose not to participate, but would it really be fair to them if this is a regular thing and happens repeatedly?
What if our currency instead said "there is no god" and what if you were constantly forced/asked/cajoled into saying things like "so help me void" or "in void we trust." Wouldn't that offend you?
It is nearly impossible for devoutly religious people to understand how tiresome and offensive this is to those of us who are not.
I wish we had a no religion rule on this board.
November 30th, 2022 at 3:28 PM ^
Mtzlblk, I am not touting my own personal religious beliefs, and was pretty careful to leave my own personal religious beliefs entirely out of this discussion. What I have merely done is to quote Coach Harbaugh, and Donovan Edwards, and Blake Corum, and JJ McCarthy, in interviews after the game, and before the game, and over time. If they have been interviewed, and put something in the public sphere, and shared what their priorities are, is that or is that not a fair topic for the board to consider?
Others in this thread added private instagrams from players. Because I'm an old fart who uses neither instagram nor tiktok nor twitter, I can't comment intelligently as to which of those forums are "private" and which are "public." Although, I'd lean towards assuming they are public.
To be clear, in my OP, I never suggested in any way that anyone on mgoblog needed to agree with or support Harbaugh, Edwards, Corum, or McCarthy. We can disagree with all kinds of things on the team, not just religious beliefs, and yet support the team.
I don't know who mgoblogger MJ14 is, but he sounds like someone who is in the locker room and knows 1000% more than I do. He has repeatedly said that this is not a problem on Michigan's team, and is extremely common on many teams, mentioning Saban and Alabama, Fickell and Cincinnati, Lincoln Riley and USC, let alone Dabo Swinney.
I do suspect there is a very significant disconnect between the beliefs and values of most of the team, and the beliefs of a majority of Michigan professors and students and alumni. I also suspect the team and coaches are aware of that disconnect. I will probably never know, because I am not close to anyone currently on the team. But my guess is that I would personally be more in synch with the beliefs of the team than with the beliefs of most Michigan profs. C'est la vie.
Personally, I would love to hear more from Gelb and Gentry and El-Hadi and others on the team who don't share religious beliefs and spiritual practices with most of the team.
There are many things that all of us don't personally like which are common in society. We can choose to be offended, or to let it roll off our backs.
I will use several personal examples.
- I have attended religious ceremonies that are not from my own religious tradition. I can attend something, without personally participating in everything prayed or said. This doesn't offend me, or bother me in the least.
- I take no offense when someone says "Happy Hannakah," or "Happy Kwanza," or "Happy Winter Solstice," and when then deliberately avoid saying "Merry Christmas." Why should I care? Why should this bother me? As far as I'm concerned, Christmas is largely a secular holiday anyway.
- I'm not a big fan of those who genetically have an assigned sex (male / female,) but have chosen a non-binary gender, and choose to use either "they" as their personal pronoun, or choose to use the pronoun (he/she) of the opposite gender. However, this is their choice. Why should I be offended?
I would have absolutely no problem removing "In God We Trust" from US currency. In fact, I think it would be a good thing. It wouldn't bother me if coinage said "In Void We Trust." In fact, coins used 2,000 years ago in Israel said, loosely translated, "Divine Augustus, Emperor." Jews at that time used those coins, even though they absolutely disagreed with the inscriptions.
December 1st, 2022 at 8:00 PM ^
You're never going to get it if you equate choosing a college with religious beliefs and don't understand that difference.
Harbaugh is in a position of power over these kids, he holds their playing time and futures in his hands and his opinion of them matters in a most profound way. He doesn't get to promote his religion to them.
You fail to understand that many of these players likely already have their answer and may be deeply attuned to another religion or system of beliefs, but are therefore forced to play a game of wondering "will coach think of me differently" if I don't participate and there is both a conscious and subconscious aspect to that. Sure coach says it doesn't matter.....but, really? Coach is so fervent about this, it is hard for me to believe it won't matter in some way, plus, we just won, I want to be with my teammates, I want to bond, I don't want to leave the room, so I guess I'll have to stay and pretend.
November 30th, 2022 at 9:47 AM ^
To paraphrase Seneca: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by coaches as useful."
November 30th, 2022 at 10:29 AM ^
Best post of the day
November 29th, 2022 at 7:12 PM ^
Fantastic post. I think it's clear that this team is in touch with the Lord, and He is guiding them in their mission. Donovan saying he was told in his prayers he'd have a breakout game, and attributing everything they did to the Lord, really opened my eyes to their spirituality.
Hutch made the sign of the cross after a sack last year, it's something that began with our culture shift
November 29th, 2022 at 8:34 PM ^
This is sarcasm right. Otherwise, how would we ever lose. Or how would even really horrible things occur in this world over and over and over again.
November 29th, 2022 at 9:43 PM ^
Takes like these about God, aimed towards other people’s hope in Him and their optimism because of it, are incredibly lazy.
November 30th, 2022 at 9:18 AM ^
On the contrary, my friend: examining the validity of specific claims (such as attributing the team's success to god's guidance through team's prayer behaviors) through testing logical predictions which follow from the claim (such as, if the success is due to prayer, then similar success will be generally observed among those who pray) is the opposite of lazy.
I'll admit, we're setting the bar incredibly low in this kind of epistemological examination. But to not even meet this basic standard of epistemic rigor is far, far lazier than setting it.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:12 PM ^
TL;DR - if this isn't for you why read the post?
I read through some of these - honestly it's frustrating to hear this outpouring of "I'm uncomfortable" hearing about God, The Lord, religion, etc...
Why?
I'm uncomfortable that people think it's un-American to not like mustard on a hot dog (hate mustard)
I'm uncomfortable thay my hairline fell apart at 26, and some of y'all get to keep it!
I'm uncomfortable in group settings - anxiety - and though I can be an extrovert, I'm often unsure how people can slip into a room and perform small talk like it's nothing (small talk ain't my thing either *shrug*)
I'm uncomfortable that someone wants to say "Ain't isn't a word." Just stop!
I could insert politics, television, clothing, music, simply insert anything involving a feeling or opinion. LIGHTEN UP people. We live in a society where it's "ok" to voice what bothers us, but nobody stops to think about the fact that this could quite possibly bother the rest.
Humans have emotions. We have feelings. If a player talking about giving thanks to the Lord impacts your feelings on Michigan football, you've got some soul searching of your own to do. That player shouldn't have to change his soundbite for you. If a post about spirituality of a football team isn't your thing, listen to the OP...0.64% - read the others. Go rewatch the last 7:23 of The Game. Go repaint your kitchen. Do anything....ANYTHING but feel the need to impose your opinion to limit feelings for others.
For the record - I have nothing against atheists, agnostics, pastors, priests, nuns, or the like. You be you...and let those around you be them. Just try to enjoy everything that happens in between.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:19 PM ^
Christians are never made to feel uncomfortable ever about anything these days.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:26 PM ^
I tend to disagree - I think it's all a mass audience effect and depends who you're around. As someone who considers themselves Christian but doesn't impose my feelings on others, I certainly hear more negative about religion than I do hear anything positive. Posts like these are a no no to some, yet it's OK for someone to ask me "Did your God do that?" sarcastically - with that subtle jab attached.
We have church - if people aren't religious, don't attend.
We have posts - if it isn't your genre, don't attend.
Same way you don't read books that don't appeal to you, or watch a show that doesn't appeal to you.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:37 PM ^
My comment was sarcasm; my point being Christians are basically the one group it’s ok to openly deride and offend.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:44 PM ^
Sorry for the pile on! Totally missed that.
November 30th, 2022 at 1:53 PM ^
This is a very strange take
November 29th, 2022 at 7:42 PM ^
What you don't seem to understand is a full team prayer from a specific religion is doing EXACTLY what you are chastising others for. It's imposing your opinion to limit the feelings of others.
Michigan is not a Christian university. No one on the football team should ever be made to feel excluded because they have a religion other than Christianity or no religion.
I can't tell you if that is happening or not, but I can tell you that generally when stuff like this happens on sports teams, the people being excluded just suck it up and deal with it rather than rock the boat.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:48 PM ^
All due respect to your point- and I do agree with you - I think players suck it up simply because it isn't hurting anyone. They're not sacrificing an animal to pay their respects. I would hope the coaching staff as a whole 1) understands and observes any religious differences and 2) embraces as many aspects of all in order to not exclude anyone.
They certainly seem to be VERY close and family oriented. I would think a prospective recruit would shy away from attending if that culture wasn't for them.
Shit - if Notre Dame can do it so can we.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:56 PM ^
Isn't the very fact that you even bring up the idea that a prospective recruit who is a non-Christian might shy away from playing football here a problem though?
There are several explicitly Christian schools to go to if you want that culture. And if you go to a place like Notre Dame but you aren't Catholic, or BYU and you aren't Mormon, well, that is really your problem. But Michigan is an explicitly secular institution.
Again, I have no real insight into any of this and no idea how any specific kid feels about it. Sure, we can say it "isn't hurting anyone", but that is making a lot of assumptions. I certainly hope that is true.
November 29th, 2022 at 8:39 PM ^
I actually don't think it's a problem at all unless theyre brainwashing kids. Going on a recruiting visit should be about seeing if you're a "good fit" both for yourself as well as the school you're attending. This would be the same as meeting a coworker and simply not hitting it off. You may work great together and get along just fine, but their appreciation of art and wine doesn't mix with your sports and beer.
If the approach they're taking now is working, and producing results, and keeping players happy - why feel the need to intervene.
Where I could see this be a problem would be if they don't incorporate these aspects into visits, hide who they really are, or simply make people uncomfortable with no remorse for that feeling on purpose.
Shame on me but it just doesn't look like that's happening. They get along fantastic and all seem to have huge hearts. I simply don't see the problem unless a story breaks with contrary thought that Michigan is in fact a cult.
November 29th, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^
Not sure how anyone can possibly say that making non-Christian players feel uncomfortable at an explicitly secular public state school would "not be a problem" as long as we are winning.
November 29th, 2022 at 9:20 PM ^
You're not reading it all and putting your own spin on it for context. What are we arguing at this point? Would you like to tear it down? Tell them to stop talking about it because it's already been removed from many public schools and you feel from an inclusion standpoint that they should change their views publicly, even though as a society we are supposed to be more accepting? Who are you? (And yeah, who am I?) to tell them not to be that way, or to tell the OP not to discuss it.
I'd love to read studies on the unity they have and compare it to their "recruiting stars" - perhaps the selfless team spirit means more than assorted 5* talent with personal ego? Maybe Ryan Day isn't a bad coach, his team just isn't united and he's too nice a guy. Maybe Urban Meyer united them through fear - spoiler - he did - and its far more unhealthy than what they're doing right now as a team in Ann Arbor.
I don't care personally if you praise the Lord, Allah, or a damn house plant. What I can't stand behind is people making more of something than there is and dissecting every aspect of life around them - even what doesn't have anything to do with them personally.
I'm happy for all of them and I hope if any of them are uncomfortable, they feel comfortable enough with their teammates and coaches to let them know.
November 29th, 2022 at 8:00 PM ^
Religion, any religion, can be used to unite people or divide them. The context of how it’s applied at M football seems clearly the former. But many (most?) in the US experience the divisive nature of religion, and it’s totally understandable to have an aversion to it.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:14 PM ^
I'm fine if Harbaugh or any of the players individually are spiritual and thank God. I don't want a forced culture of it like Dabo but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
November 29th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
Dabo uses his strictly Bible Belt version of Christianity to sell to his fanbase in the south, and to church moms and grandmas of perspective recruits from the south…it’s essentially a PR move, and his spirituality is probably, as they say, 3,000 miles wide and 3 inches deep. Basically, it’s a mixture TBN version of Christianity, American Christian folklore, and charismatic showmanship to cover up his insecurities.
Harbaugh, on the other hand, I actually tend to believe is a deeply spiritual man, which may actually lend to his quirkiness and how he clearly doesn’t care what anyone thinks of him. Seems to be extremely comfortable in his own skin. I challenge anyone here to meet a monk who has dedicated his life to spending time in solitude with their creator, and you will experience from them a similar confidence, discipline, never having “arrived”, a sense of humility, and quirkiness.
Or better yet, read some Thomas Merton.
November 29th, 2022 at 7:51 PM ^
Along with faith I have heard several references to Stoicism! Those are two powerful mindsets to carry through life.
November 29th, 2022 at 8:11 PM ^
Anytime I see a kicker before a FG make the sign of the cross or similar religious gesture, I always yell at the TV, "KICK IT YOURSELF!!!"
Same deal with basketball and free throws.
November 30th, 2022 at 4:57 AM ^
I have a similar thought when I see a batter who just homered cross himself and point at the sky as he touches home plate. I think, "What, did God make the pitcher hang that breaking ball?"
I have absolutely no problem with any person's private spiritual beliefs, as long as they do not include hatred toward others (and unfortunately, there are those that do.) My issue is when they start making those private beliefs public. Then it runs the risk of becoming another way to show off, a case of an "I'm more righteous than you because I pray louder and do it in front of the TV cameras." It turns a private relationship into public relations.
As a lapsed Catholic, I spent most of my time in church wanting to be elsewhere. But I did listen to the stories. And one I remember very well was Matthew 6:5:
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."
Oh, and get it straight: I'm calling neither Edwards, Harbaugh, not anyone else a hypocrite. (That's Matthew's word, not mine.) I'm just questioning the need to make private beliefs public. Is it truly giving glory to God - or is it just another way of saying "Look at me?"
November 30th, 2022 at 3:46 PM ^
Sam1863, I'd totally agree with you that is Edwards or Harbaugh (or Corum or McCarthy) wanted to be praised, and wanted to say in so many words, "look at me, look at me, look at my righteousness, my holiness, my goodness, my spirituality," that would make no sense. Too many people in church are all about themselves. When people have buildings named after themselves, or foundations, isn't that exactly what they're doing?
But I don't think that's Harbaugh's or Edward's or Corum's or McCarthy's intent. In fact, I didn't focus on it, but Harbaugh REPEATEDLY has given all the credit to the players, to the coaches, and to God, and not to himself. Edwards very much said the same thing. McCarthy has been fairly circumspect about his personal practice of meditation. I doubt he would talk about it at all except that he has been asked about it by curious media members. And the quote about Corum in the original post made clear he was concerned people would think he was fishing for public praise and acclaim.
No I think there is another factor at play. In the sermon on the mount from Jesus which you quoted, Jesus also said:
No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father. Matthew 5:15-16.
The very last thing that Jesus said in the Bible is this:
You will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. Acts 1:8
This is a significant motivation for many on the team.
November 29th, 2022 at 8:18 PM ^
I'm a former pastor and current apostate
I'm fine with this culture - it works for the team. I expect that people of different or no faith feels welcome and accepted
I just want to add that you can have an amazing culture that is humble, hard working, exceptionally compassionate and with high morals that has not a damn thing to do with religion. You can have it with religious/spiritual teams, but you don't need to be religious/spiritual to have this type of team. I've been part of communities since leaving the church that have felt so much more Christ-like than the one I knew within the church
November 29th, 2022 at 9:05 PM ^
“I expect that people of different or no faith feels welcome and accepted” that’s only an assumption someone agreeing with all of it would make.
November 30th, 2022 at 12:15 AM ^
While others on this post have made the assumption that non-religious or non-christian kids feel "forced" to participate for fear or being looked down on or being "that guy" with absolutely zero indication that this is happening. In fact the only thing we seem to have in this post regarding in the feelings of a non-christian on the team is an article where the player very clearly has none of the issues that so many are assuming must be present.
November 30th, 2022 at 10:13 AM ^
I'm clarifying my comment:
I agree with you
That was my way of saying that this MUST be the case - otherwise I see it as a huge problem. This was my son's type of locker room in high school football just a few years ago (but maybe more). I went to both the principal and athletic director and said that it was illegal and explained all the reasons I didn't want my son in that situation. I added that it might be easier for me to speak up than many of the families from our very intercultural community
I left my religion and have more distrust and bitterness towards it than anyone I know. However, it's part of life for many people, and like everything, it has the ability to make things better or worse. I had a problem not with spirituality but with saying the lord's prayer specifically, as a team. Individuals can do what they want
November 29th, 2022 at 8:18 PM ^
This thread was hilarious.
November 29th, 2022 at 8:59 PM ^
Love our team, love our coach. Glory be to God in Christ Jesus.
November 29th, 2022 at 9:02 PM ^
Spirituality is not limited to Christianity. It is also largely amorphous and the folk who utilize the term have implied specifics that go beyond the limitations of what defines spirituality. That said, having a football team with a large proportion of Christians is not uncommon, but if it helps make these players better human beings so be it. I tend to cringe a bit when Christianity is held up as morally superior or more spiritual or as spiritual as opposed to other faiths. Just my two cents.
(And I know the post wasn't necessarily limited to Christianity.)
November 30th, 2022 at 9:15 AM ^
Great point. Spiritual =/= religious, although they often overlap.
November 30th, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
yeah I cringe when I hear individuals say it, but that's their right
As a team generic prayers to generic gods is fine - no different than meditation which is fantastic. But the team said the Lord's Prayer. That's when I went from cringe to ... that's not good. That was no longer spiritual but now religious imo
November 30th, 2022 at 11:13 AM ^
Loved Carlin. Loved this. You deserve 1 billion mgo points. Required viewing for Harbaugh. Just asking: does anyone know if Harbaugh led the team in the Lord’s Prayer after the 2015-2019 OSU games. Can’t find any record of it.
December 6th, 2022 at 10:59 AM ^
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