Michigan is for Real (Joel Klatt Show)

Submitted by aMaizenBlueinNoir on October 17th, 2022 at 6:15 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WjGhGw2LSJA

(Spoiler Alert: this video feels like it’s from a fan). 
 

Klatt makes some major statements:

1) Offensive line better than last year

2) No players better than Ojabo/Hutch, but Defensive line is better

3) Game got the attention of OSU

4) Michigan has evolved

5) Architecture on D is built for OSU

 

What do you think? 

Amazinblu

October 17th, 2022 at 6:31 PM ^

It might be semantics, and I know that Klatt referenced beating Ohio; however, I think the defensive scheme and players on that side of the ball - are operating under an "NFL approach".  This is immediately evidenced by the last two DC's - and, their backgrounds.

I would view Michigan's defensive scheme to be "multiple" - designed to be flexible enough  to defend most college offenses.  I give the Bucks credit, they are a strong offensive team - and, over roughly the past 15+ years have been balanced running / passing the ball with a solid OL.

The regular season finale in Columbus has potential to be a great game.  But, there are four more regular season games between now and then.  One play, series, and game at a time. Go Blue!

East German Judge

October 17th, 2022 at 6:45 PM ^

I was one of Don Brown's biggest critics, and rightfully so.  People, including many on this fanbase and blog, loved the fact that we "statistically" looked good - as he beat up on the lesser teams badly, but we got out-smarted / out-played by the better teams and didn't win anything meaningful while he was here.  So glad he is gone!

CarrIsMyHomeboy

October 17th, 2022 at 6:58 PM ^

I think this undervalues his 2016 defense, which was a real dream. That entire team was CFP-caliber. That they didn't achieve a Big Ten championship in Harbaugh's second year (and end up in the CFP) still seems to me more a matter of painful random happenstance than X's and Joe's or Johnny's and O's.

I won't deny the lack of evolution in 2017 and beyond. I'm just never going to miss a chance to tout 2016. We suffocated OSU and then there was some painful random happenstance. I'll always expect that in a 10-game series we'd have been likely to take 5. And in Harbaugh-year-two, even blathering such things should communicate that Michigan experienced high level, rapid growth.

MGlobules

October 17th, 2022 at 7:12 PM ^

Yes! This narrative of the time it took Harbaugh is completely reconfigured if a play or two goes the other way in 16. And Paul Finebaum might be sleeping on a park bench, or at least have had to find someone else to try to persecute. 

Move beyond that and you have to wonder what kind of boost recruiting, polls, many other connected issues would have received, and where we would be now. 

All that is unchangeable, but to me it does suggest that we have a fine coach, really one of the four or five in the game who you can point to and say with conviction that he knows how to juggle the complex institutional animal that is a major college football team. 

ShadowStorm33

October 17th, 2022 at 7:32 PM ^

We had a legit defense in 2016, although the OSU offense we mostly suffocated was the Urban Meyer power spread (which Don Brown's D was built to counter), not the Ryan Day passing attack OSU has now. I do wonder if we would have been able to hold up against the latter (even in 2018, we had two very good, NFL level corners, but we got shredded because our 3rd corner couldn't keep up).

The other issue though is the 2016 defense was built around Hoke and Harbaugh recruits. Don Brown couldn't/didn't recruit the level of talent needed to keep the D humming against elite offenses, which contributed to a lot of problems in later years...

Double-D

October 17th, 2022 at 7:11 PM ^

God bless Don Brown. Play simple and fast and let your athletes go. I could not have been more wrong.

The game has changed especially when you play a high caliber offense with a skilled QB. Our defense this year and last is more sophisticated and these kids are really well coached.

We have tools now to do so much more depending on the opponent as well as the game circumstance.

LeCheezus

October 18th, 2022 at 4:38 PM ^

I think saying it was not fundamental is a bit of an overstatement.  When he was at BC/UConn, his defense was an annoyance teams had to deal with once a year.  They were never the big fish in conference.  After 1.75 games of getting their run game bushwhacked by his defense, OSU changed their entire offense with the Don Brown defense square in their sights.  They had crossing routes/rub routes everywhere for the man coverage.  They had counters for his infrequent zone and trap coverages.  He got downloaded and basically kept running the same stuff.  Nobody gave his defense this level of attention anywhere else, and when you take a top 3 talent program that builds their offense around beating your somewhat predictable defense, the 2018 and 2019 games happen (although 2019 was also M running out of viable DT's).

Seth summarized it well last year after the OSU game, "Don Brown was not up for what OSU had become."

ShadowStorm33

October 17th, 2022 at 7:50 PM ^

I think that last statement is on point. It really feels like the way we have been playing and calling defense since Brown left is completely geared towards beating ohio.

Last year, definitely. That defensive was absolutely geared to stopping OSU. With two elite, first round NFL talents at DE, we earned the right to rush four (and still terrorized Stroud and OSU's OL), being able to drop the other seven players into coverage and make them repeatedly work their way down the field.

This year, I'm not so sure, especially if the DEs can't get pass rush against good OLs. The way the Amoeba D is described (blitzes that can come from anyway, lot's of man coverage, etc.) sounds a lot like Don Brown's D, which is emphatically NOT the way to defend against the Ryan Day offense. Now granted there are a couple caveats. First, despite how much it's talked up, the Amoeba seems more like a change-up than a base D. Second, part of the problem Brown had against Ryan Day was probably Brown specific. They coached together, so Day came in already very familiar with Brown's scheme, and Brown was both very open about his concepts (his BC playbook was publicly available on the internet) and stubborn to change. It's like Brown took the approach that you couldn't learn how to attack his D in a week (similar to how Beilein could terrorize teams on short turnaround), except it seems clear that OSU prepared for Brown's D all year (I swear their OL seemed to know our blitzes better than we did).

So I really hope we can get organic pass rush from the DEs so we can leave players back in coverage, like we did last year. Or that Minter can come up with some blitzes that OSU doesn't see coming. But if we can't get after Stroud, who'll pick us apart without pressure, it seems like outscoring them in a shootout would be our only path to victory.

Amazinblu

October 17th, 2022 at 6:25 PM ^

I saw this and thought it was a good, accurate, and fair.   In particular, his reference to NFL defenses and how the NFL DL's are designed / schemed.

Mike Damone

October 17th, 2022 at 6:30 PM ^

Hard to believe our D is as good or better than last year - but it does seem to be.  Players have improved and grown, young guys have contributed - and Sainristil has been great coming over from offense, what a terrific DB.

Go Blue!!!

Chaco

October 17th, 2022 at 6:31 PM ^

Thanks for posting.  I think part of the reason we collectively like Joel Klatt is because a) he knows what he is talking about  b) he is positive about our beloved Wolverines.

LDNfan

October 17th, 2022 at 6:31 PM ^

To me it looks like both OSU and UM have evolved over recent years in response to the other..with UM having to do it to stay relevant in the rivalry and OSU finally being forced to take note after last year's ass whuppin. But it also looks like both teams may be better this year than last and if so they are heading for a massive clash in CBus. 

XM - Mt 1822

October 17th, 2022 at 6:34 PM ^

i think we are going to be at least 7 pt dogs when we get to columbus and it'll be a fight-royale.  that said, IF, IF, IF we beat ohio again, it will surely rock their little cooler-pooper world and their schadenfrude will be the stuff of legend.  i candidly doubt we can do it, but like many of us, that's also what i thought last year and that's why you play the games. 

Amazinblu

October 17th, 2022 at 6:48 PM ^

Michigan is currently an 8.5 point underdog against the Bucks.  I LOVE that line.  I hope the line grows to 15 points in favor of the Bucks.  I hope the media, including Meyer, start to show the Bucks incredible love.   Please - begin, or continue, the mantra that the Bucks are unbeatable.

Derek

October 17th, 2022 at 6:34 PM ^

#2 was my snow-flake contribution on Saturday. We all assumed Harbaugh was just blustering, but I'll be damned.

It's going to be weird not having Gus and Klatt call the next game.

UM Indy

October 17th, 2022 at 6:47 PM ^

A mix as you would expect. Lots saying they basically don’t give a shit what we do, they are going to smoke us. Some acknowledging that we look good and they are concerned. Last year was last year. It was epic. But it doesn’t mean anything this year. A win in Columbus this year would be 10x harder and thus 10x better than last year. 

Blinkin

October 17th, 2022 at 6:43 PM ^

I think the DL take may be a bit on the warm side, at least until we see a better OL. The pass rush was only ok against Maryland, and basically every other OL we've seen this year has been pretty rough. 

Problem is that we may not see a truly good OL until the last 2 weeks of the season. 

Perkis-Size Me

October 17th, 2022 at 7:15 PM ^

Well they are getting pressure, but one of the issues I’ve seen, especially against Maryland and PSU, was letting the QB escape.

Granted, Tagovailoa and Clifford are more mobile and can do things with their legs, but there were several instances in both games where the DL had those two dead to rights, and somehow, someway, they escape the sack, escape the pocket altogether, and get into some open space to do some damage. That didn’t seem to happen much last year.

RXwolverine

October 17th, 2022 at 6:54 PM ^

I have been a skeptic with Harbaugh ever since 2017 and last season i was happily proven wrong. Something with Harbaugh feels different. Ever since that road win last season against Wisconsin i can feel new energy with the guy and its reflected with the team especially on defense. This past saturday he looked energetic and got livid when a call went against him. I havent felt this confident about a michigan team in a long time. The entire defensive scheme looks geared to beat OSU. The defensive line has been by far the most unexpected position on this team. They are playing at a higher level than last season. I feel like i can say with confidence that harbaugh knows what hes doing. Beat Ohio state in Columbus this season and the perception for Michigan changes significantly. GO BLUE!

tigerd

October 18th, 2022 at 7:58 AM ^

It is weird that it appears the fire is back in Harbaugh's belly. There were a couple of years where he got docile. Not sure if it was his penchant to want to flirt with the NFL or if there was something going on between him and the leadership at U of M, or if his dad who had publicly said that he wanted him to tone it down that was getting into his head, but something is definitely different. You have to be who you are and the real Jim is a fiery hard nosed football coach not unlike the guy who mentored him.

Boner Stabone

October 17th, 2022 at 7:16 PM ^

Totally agree with him. 

I was talking at work with a lifelong OSU fan and he was saying the same things that Klatt said.  He is terrified of our O-line and even said that we are very well coached which makes up for OSU having more talented players in his opinion.  The only negative he said is that our secondary is weaker than last year and feels like OSU's receivers should have a field day against us.  

Brimley

October 18th, 2022 at 10:51 AM ^

You guys are on the money.  Unless my aging brain is failing me, our secondary consists mostly of year older and wiser versions of the same guys from 2021 (Gemon Green, fergodssakes!) or guys who have been able to replicate who they replaced (I haven't felt any big drop off from ol' reliables Gray and Hawkins to date).

BlueMk1690

October 17th, 2022 at 7:27 PM ^

I mean, I agree on some stuff. I think a Harbaugh team needs a monster O-Line to succeed, and this year's edition might be his best at Michigan. That's the engine that drives this team. You couldn't get away with the game plans we've had so far with even an average O-Line.

But when it comes to defense, I'm a lot less sold. I think the proof will be in the pudding in Columbus. It's too early to sing ballads in praise of our defensive abilities vs OSU because it's too early to see a pattern. If we contain them this year and allow less than 30 points then you can say, yeah it looks like we got something here. At this point we had a one off win last year and OSU has spent all year figuring out how to prevent that from happening again.

 

Amazinblu

October 18th, 2022 at 12:04 PM ^

1690, How many college teams do you think are successful with ANY game plan - against Top 25 competition - if they don't have an OL that's at least "above average".

It all starts in the trenches, on both O & D.   Whether it's protection or pressure - run or pass - if your OL isn't effective in doing what the play calls for, the offense won't be effective.

Double-D

October 17th, 2022 at 7:33 PM ^

I enjoy Joel Klatt. He gets it and has good analysis. He is not just saying shit to create a stir.

It sure is easier to like some of these guys when you are winning.

Recruits should be paying attention to Ann Arbor right now.