Lloyd Carr going 29-6 vs Wisconsin, PSU and MSU appreciation
October 20th, 2019 at 10:30 PM ^
You could just watch replays of Lloyd Carr's games then if you enjoy those more.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:33 PM ^
Hell yeah i will
1999 Michigan vs Wisconsin
Goes on the road and absolutely stuffs Ron Dayne
https://youtu.be/XE2KjXGjXKg
0 yards on 8 carries in the 2nd half
October 20th, 2019 at 11:15 PM ^
That's probably ALL they tried to do, too. Crazy to think that football has evolved and become more complicated with more nuanced offenses, etc..
*They ran 61% of the time that year
October 21st, 2019 at 9:35 AM ^
Carr's last 4 years: 36-14, 0-4 vs OSU, 1-3 in bowl games
Harbaugh's first 4 years: 38-14, 0-4 vs OSU, 1-3 in bowl games
sure, the good old days under Lloyd
October 21st, 2019 at 10:33 AM ^
Wow, that's interesting. I remember the last few years of Carr and thinking he really needed to hang it up for some new blood and ideas. And now Harbaugh has done no better. Now I'm really depressed. BPONE take me.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:38 PM ^
Sounds like BPONE has already taken you.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:26 PM ^
Carr wanted to retire after 2006 and essentially gave notice to Bill Martin who then failed to take appropriate action. Eventually Carr told Martin he was done, forcing the issue. Martin then went sailing.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:58 PM ^
This speaks to a much bigger topic that gets lost in translation for many here - we have not actually been world beaters for quite some time now - we have averaged 3 or 4 losses (minus RR era) per year for a long period of time. I agree that it is frustrating that we have not won a B1G title in 15+ years but that speaks more to the RR/BH era as well as being in arguably the toughest division in college football and always having to play at least two/three tough road games per year.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:01 AM ^
I mean a normal person does enjoy games we win more than games we lose...
October 20th, 2019 at 10:31 PM ^
As a fan of a competing team, I thought Carr's were the best UM teams we faced.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:33 PM ^
Indiana fan?
October 20th, 2019 at 10:41 PM ^
Oh yeah. I worked with a PSU alum back in the mid-2000's and he absolutely hated Michigan. He was always saying "we can't beat you guys!" And he was right. The good ole days.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:14 AM ^
Those Michigan / Penn State games of the mid-90's were classics. Still it would've been really interesting to see how Joe Paterno would've fared against Bo Schembechler if Penn State had joined the conference say around 1980? Those would have been some absolute slugfests.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:37 PM ^
Under Carr Michigan completely owned the state of Michigan in recruiting. Saban left MSU with a parting statement along the lines of "not being able to compete with Michigan." And we usually nabbed many of Ohio's top recruits too. Things were easier back then for the program due to recruiting advantages in the midwest and other factors such as the lesser quality of coaching in the Big 10 vs the state of things now. And it seemed like we never had an average OL or DL. We built the team around the trenches which was ideal for dominating the Big 10.
That said, we struggled against good opponents with new-fangled offenses, i.e. running QB's and spread teams. Most Michigan fans bitched about this, including me.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:06 PM ^
That's not entirely true. T.J. Duckett and Charles Rogers were two huge recruits that went to MSU.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:11 PM ^
True. "Completely owned" is a bit of an exaggeration but not too far off.
October 21st, 2019 at 7:03 AM ^
You know it’s owned if you can name all the players MSU recruited over Michigan in that time frame, because the list is small.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:20 PM ^
Not sure if the quality of coaching was worse back then. Tiller is possibly the coach Purdue has ever had. Gary Barnett and Randy Walker are comparable, if not possibly better, then Fitzgerald. Mason had solid tenure at Minnesota. Since 1962 Minnesota has only finished in the AP Top 25 twice - both times under Mason. Illinois actually won a Big Ten title in the early 2000s.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:47 PM ^
MGoPunchingBag PJ Fleck might have Minnesota at 11-0 going into Wisconsin if they can squeak past Penn State at home.
Seems like Michigan should just hire whoever MGoBlog makes fun of bc they’re surpassing expectations. See Franklin Fleck etc.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:20 AM ^
I feel like strength of schedule matters here. Fleck's signature win this season is 4-3 shit-ass Nebraska. Michigan would be undefeated with nothing but blowouts with that same schedule.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:50 PM ^
They did that with Hoke.
It didn't work out.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:13 AM ^
Yeah, I forgot about those guys. Jimmys and Joes though. Michigan and OSU had them. The others didn't. I'm sure there were a few but I honestly don't remember anyone of note besides Drew Brees. Big 2 little 8.
October 21st, 2019 at 4:20 AM ^
Yep, and every one of those coaches had at least some success against us. Coach Carr recruited well and he always had a solid program with guys coming in and mostly staying for at least 3 years if not longer. The game is a different one nowadays and Coach Carr may have got out at a good time. Let's not forget Ohio State began to move away from the 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense towards the end of his tenure, and then there was App State and what they did to us. Coach Carr left behind a great legacy, and we'll always have '97, but there were bumps along the road at times back then. Those that want Coach Harbaugh removed would do well to remember that; it's not as easy to win at Michigan as it was in the past, between the changes in offensive and defensive philosophy, not to mention having to compete against programs with 'negotiable' character.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:52 AM ^
Well... M has consistently recruited better than Wisconsin then and now, and Wisconsin has essentially the same philosophy and identity established by Alvarez, meaning they haven't changed that much since the Carr days. It's not like Wisconsin loads up on 'questionable' guys. And the 3-years-to-NFL rule is still the same. So what explains the butt-kicking this season? Your post comes across as apologist.
Wiscy hasn't really changed much in the last 15 years, but M has, but apparently not for the better as it's performance vs. that team has deteriorated. Lloyd Carr was 7-2 vs. them, Harbaugh has already matched those losses in 4 games.
October 21st, 2019 at 7:05 AM ^
And we usually nabbed many of Ohio's top recruits too.
True, until we didn't anymore. A big factor in Jim Tressel flipping the script on Michigan was his ability to keep Ohio talent in Ohio.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:33 PM ^
I was a student during this era. Football was fun, basketball kept breaking my heart.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:50 PM ^
I mean, there's this, too. And then every March, the hockey team would find a new and more infuriating way to come juuuust short.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:34 PM ^
Not really a good comparison. All three programs were significantly worse during most of Carr's time than they are now. PSU went through some very bad seasons in late Paterno, and MSU was a total dumpster fire during most of Carr's tenure.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:39 PM ^
PSU came into the Big Ten as arguably a top 5 program. Wisconsin won 2 Big Ten titles (seasons ruined by Lloyd teams several times)
You have a point about MSU save the Saban years but hell they probably never have the success they do without Carr leaving.
MSU was decent during the Moeller years and Carr came in and shut that shit down. Just like he shut down Paterno.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:45 PM ^
No doubt Carr did very well is these series, but I think the level is clearly more difficult now.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:46 PM ^
Eh....Harbaugh missed MSU's golden era besides 2015. They've been on the decline for a few years. PSU was very, very good in the 90s and a few years in the 2000s (aka almost all of Carr's tenure). Wisconsin had higher heights in the Carr era too, Barry Alvarez is their best coach of all time.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:58 PM ^
PSU was really bad from 2000-04, with multiple losing seasons. They started to bounce back in 2005.
Alvarez turned around UW but Bielema was actually more successful overall.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:40 PM ^
To be more specific, here is JoePa 1999-2007. Not exactly a brutal matchup.
1999Penn State 10–3
2000Penn State 5–7
2001Penn State 5–6
2002Penn State 9–4
2003Penn State 3–9
2004Penn State 4–7
2005Penn State 11–1
2006Penn State 9–4
2007Penn State 9–4
MSU is at least as bad pre-Dantonio, which Carr feasted on. Harbaugh has had some bad luck being in a tough division when PSU and MSU are good to very good and OSU is nuclear. It is what it is.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:46 PM ^
Lets take a look at their best years then
2002 9-4
PSU - 24
Mich - 27
2005 11-1
PSU - 25
Mich - 27
2006 9-4
PSU - 17
Mich - 10
2007 9-4
PSU - 9
Mich - 14
So even when PSU was good, they were nothing to Lloyd
Btw whats Franklins record year by year ?
October 20th, 2019 at 10:53 PM ^
Lloyd was good against PSU no doubt. But honestly my dude, I feel like every post you write is just mining for data/arguments to complain about how bad Harbaugh is. It's getting old. You're my current least favorite, along with TheCube.
Since you asked, here is Franklin since Harbaugh's arrival in 2015. It's pretty good, and we are 3-2 against them with two blowout wins, a blowout loss, and a nailbiter loss. Not incredible, but not exactly chopped liver.
2016Penn State11–3
2017Penn State11–2
October 20th, 2019 at 11:01 PM ^
So pretty much where JoPa was his last years at PSU. Except Joe Pa didnt get gimmies at Rutgers and Maryland
October 20th, 2019 at 11:05 PM ^
Not really, but whatever cherry-picked facts help you prove your pre-ordained conclusion to yourself, go ahead and run with them.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:40 PM ^
Franklins record and Joe Pas record towards the end of his career are near identical.
Hell if not for touchdown Manningham Joe Pa is probably playing in the BCS championship game for a natty.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:08 PM ^
I'd prefer to not get into a big debate, but Joe was pretty damn good.
Paterno averaged 8.9 wins per season as Penn State’s head coach. He also holds the NCAA records for most bowl appearances (37) and bowl wins (24). He was 24-12-1 in bowl games. And had 5 undefeated seasons.
An objective read "Joe Paterno's Statistical Legacy"
https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/37192/paternos-statistical-legacy
October 20th, 2019 at 11:17 PM ^
His overall record was good (on the football field - off it, uh...). But the JoePa that Michigan faced was mostly a figurehead at the end of his career.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:20 PM ^
Of course he was phenomenal. But his stretch during the late Carr era was the weakest of his career, and that goes to the statistics the OP raises.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:24 AM ^
11-1 in 2005 was arguably Joe Pas best year. From 2005-2007 Joe Pa went 29-9. From 2015-2018 Franklin was 35-15.
Remains to be seen what Franklim does with his 7-0 start.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:27 PM ^
MoCarrBo is nowhere near the level of the cube. The Cube is just another maizen. Every sport he just vomits all over this board. Can’t tell if he’s a troll or a self hater.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:11 AM ^
Can’t tell if he’s a troll or a self hater.
There's a difference?
October 20th, 2019 at 11:24 PM ^
Let's not forget 1997 when #4 ranked Michigan went into Happy Valley to play #1 ranked PSU and just took them to the woodshed.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:16 PM ^
PSU was AP #3 when Michigan played them in 1997.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:05 AM ^
Well, glad you asked:
Fritz Crisler was 7-2-1 against OSU....
October 21st, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^
This list is wrong. Only OSU beat Michigan during the 2006 regular season. So, PSU did not beat Michigan 17-10 in 2006. It was the other way around. Michigan won in Happy Valley, 17-10, on October 14, 2006.