Lloyd Carr going 29-6 vs Wisconsin, PSU and MSU appreciation
October 20th, 2019 at 11:13 PM ^
Carr had his 9-game winning streak vs. PSU without playing PSU's worst 2 teams in that era (2003, 2004).
Yes, PSU had some down years from 1997 to 2007 (the span of the 9-game winning streak), but it's still a fact that 7 of Carr's 9 wins vs. PSU were against 9+ win teams.
That was impressive by Lloyd Carr.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:35 PM ^
At least Carr knew how to use 6ft + receivers as deep threats instead of trying to jam them into plays meant more for Jeremy Gallon types who we don’t have on this roster anymore outside of Giles and Sainristil.
Ugh.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:53 PM ^
Sorry to rub salt in wounds (not my intent)....Carr's teams were very tough to handle.
But it made me happy when UM started trading NFL receivers, QBs, and RBs with little guys...not to mention the 3-3-5, defense.
I've watched Michigan since the mid-80s, when my brother went to school there. IMO, Carr consistently fielded the best UM teams since that time; including Bo's. Generally more nationally competitive, & complete (run, pass, and defense). Always physical, athletic and deep.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:57 PM ^
By the way, I don't think Harbaugh is bad. His teams are tough to handle too. Lloyd's teams seemed to have better offenses, and the defenses were about the same.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:20 PM ^
The O linemen were exceptionally good most years when Carr was coach. You can win a lot of games when your trenches are sound. The OL was like a who's who of Michigan linemen -- David Baas, Steve Hutchinson, Jon Jansen, Jonathan Goodwin, Jake Long (recruited by Carr played mostly for RR), and on and on. Seemed like we had at least one All American on the OL every year. And we always had a guy at RB that would carry the load of a run first offense - Biakabutuka, Hart, Anthony Thomas (a top talent plucked out of the heart of LSU country, unheard of nowadays).
October 21st, 2019 at 3:00 AM ^
Jake Long only played for Carr. You're thinking of Taylor Lewan.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:39 AM ^
Yep. My bad. I was hung over on Sunday. I meant to say Jake Long.
EDIT -- UGH...guess I'm still hung over. Jake Long and Taylor Lewan. The former only played for Carr. The latter was recruited by Carr but played mostly for RR.
October 21st, 2019 at 1:00 PM ^
O-line recruiting and performance (except for Jake Long) slipped near the end of Lloyd's run.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:36 PM ^
So I take it no one took my guy up on mods.....
October 20th, 2019 at 10:39 PM ^
‘97. Went to the first game that year. Never been the same since that season. For 32 years of fandom there was only one year they didn’t let me down. This program is saddled with playing by the rules. There will never be another 1/2/98. That team did it right. The deck is stacked.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:48 PM ^
The fanbase's collective amnesia about Lloyd Carr is one of those things that defies reason. Never knew how good we had it.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:54 PM ^
Hell Carr ran the spread against Urban Meyer and Florida better than any of these idiots have managed to do.
Put up 500 yards of offense against Florida.
October 20th, 2019 at 10:56 PM ^
With NFL everyone, that is.
Fuck off.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:11 PM ^
The only player that was a major contributer to an NFL team besides Jake Long and Henne (58 tds -63 ints) was Mario Manningham.
That team was young. Similar on defense. You had Jernigan and Crable then a bunch of young guys.
Wayyy over ranked. Wouldve been great to see what they may have been if they stayed the course in 08
October 20th, 2019 at 11:19 PM ^
Unfortunately Lloyd waited until the Citrus Bowl to bust out that epic offense. It would have been cool to have run it during the season, instead of going 8-4 with the traditional Lloydball attack.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:27 PM ^
They were planning to use it most of the season but Henne and Hart ended up being hurt most of the season.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:46 PM ^
That doesn't seem to make sense. They were healthy in fall camp, but we started the season (in the game that will not be mentioned) running our usual offense.
Were we planning to save it for OSU?
October 21st, 2019 at 11:49 AM ^
Yeah, in his final game after a disappointing season with nothing to lose. Imagine if he'd run that shit for the entire last 3 years he was coach!
October 20th, 2019 at 11:08 PM ^
He sure could motivate against the big boys.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:11 PM ^
And here's Lloyd's overall records:
1995 - 9-4
1996 - 8-4
1997 - 12-0
1998 - 10-3
1999 - 10-2
2000 - 9-3
2001 - 8-4
2002 - 10-3
2003 - 10-3
2004 - 9-3
2005 - 7-5
2006 - 11-2
2007 - 9-4
And now Jim Harbaugh:
2015 - 10-3
2016 - 10-3
2017 - 8-5
2018 - 10-3
2019 - 5-2
Do you see a huge difference? Lloyd had one magical year where everything fell into place. Otherwise he did about the same as we are now.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:13 PM ^
We’re basically where we left off with Lloyd.
October 21st, 2019 at 1:20 AM ^
Agreed but it’s better by far than where we were with RichRod and Hoke. Problem is OSU and MSU got fat off of the late Carr years and RichRod and Hoke. Harbaugh is still digging out from that and we might never be able to.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:15 PM ^
Smoke and mirros. Lloyd didnt get 2 gimmy games a year vs Rutger and Maryland to pad his stats.
Lloyd was 20-8 vs ranked teams
Harbaugh is 1-10
Lloyd was 44-26 vs ranked teams
Harbaugh is 9-12
Lloyd was 14-15 vs ranked teams on the road
Harbaugh is 1-8
Harbaugh is really good at beating cupcakes.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:21 PM ^
You act like we didn't play Illinois, NW, Minnesota, MSU, Iowa, Purdue, Indiana. Sure they all had successful years but were also "gimmies" often enough.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:25 PM ^
Purdue with Dree Brees
MSU with Nick Saban?
Iowa won their only big ten titles since 1990 in 02 and 04
NW made the Rose Bowl.
The notion that the big ten was weaker in the 90s was bullshit. Alot more parity.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:29 PM ^
Don't forget that Illinois won the Big Ten in 2001.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:41 PM ^
Which tells you how shitty the league was.
Northwestern won/shared three (!) titles - 1995, 1996, 2000.
The league was wide open back then and we only occasionally capitalized. We should have dominated like OSU is now.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:56 PM ^
1994- Penn State shoud have has a shared championship
B10 began to regularly win Rose Bowls (Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin)...The Big 10 was strong, the problem there was that USC was down...couldn't get a quality RB matchup
October 21st, 2019 at 12:05 AM ^
Penn State came into the league as a top 5 program
John Cooper beat everyone but us
again maybe your memory is going?
October 21st, 2019 at 12:19 AM ^
PSU had one great team in 1994 but they were not a top 5 program, more like top 15.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:52 PM ^
Yep. Now Ohio State just beats the piss outta everyone. How strong the big ten is I tell ya
October 21st, 2019 at 7:06 AM ^
Ohio state has also lost to MSU, Iowa, Purdue, penn state.
teams do lose.
but yes osu is worlds apart right now.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:43 PM ^
NW hasn't been a gimmie since Barnett arrived there...well, this year they are...
October 20th, 2019 at 11:24 PM ^
If you want to talk about competition:
Lloyd got to go up against John Cooper for half his tenure. Once OSU hired Tressel, he stopped winning. Harbaugh has faced Urban Meyer.
Lloyd faced MSU when they were a dumpster fire, on probation, then with Bobby Williams and John L. Smith. Harbaugh has faced Dantonio, arguably their best coach ever.
Lloyd faced an ancient figurehead JoePa. Harbaugh has faced Franklin (who, if nothing else, recruits really well).
October 20th, 2019 at 11:27 PM ^
Lloyd faced Dantonio too. With a young injured roster.
He won. The reason MSU was shit was purely because of Lloyd. Ran Saban the fuck outta town.
You think Franklin is better than Joe Pa? Cryst better than Alvarez?
October 20th, 2019 at 11:34 PM ^
I was on campus during the Carr era. I know what that era was like.
Saban beat us twice in five years and had their program headed in the right direction, once they got off probation, but thankfully, MSU was too cheap to meet his contract demands and he bolted for LSU. If not...
Also, Lloyd would have a total WTF loss every year. He lost to Purdue and Northwestern multiple times. In 1999, with Tom Brady, A-Train and the rest, we blew a 20-point lead at home (I was in attendance) and lost to Illinois.
We constantly blew leads up Lloyd. I remember a statistic where Lloyd actually won more games when we trailed by one score entering the 4th quarter than when we led by one score.
I get that you're mad at Harbaugh but if you're claiming that Lloyd's time was some golden age, I don't think you remember it that well. There was 1997 and then lots of other years where were we fell short of expectations.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:45 PM ^
44-27 vs top 25 teams
20 -8 vs top 10 teams
29-6 vz Wisconsin, MSU and PSU
5-1 vs Ohio state before Tressell
5 Big Ten titles
1 Natty
Good time
Maybe your memory is getting spotty in your old age?
October 20th, 2019 at 11:52 PM ^
So your name is MoCarrBo but you're too young to remember any of them? Cool.
Lloyd wasn't a disaster, obviously, or he wouldn't have lasted 13 years. 1997 was awesome. But most of his tenure was pretty meh. And in retrospect, it was a major missed opportunity as the Big Ten had no dominant team for most of his tenure. Lloyd let OSU surpass us, and we've never recovered from that.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:57 PM ^
20-8 vs top 10
44-27 vs ranked teams
5-1 vs Ohio before Tressel
5 big ten titles
2 undisputed
1 natty
thats meh?
I think you're trying to hard.
Btw all those games against Tressel were close, many coulda gone either way
harbaugh will lose by 3 TDS to Ohio State for the 3rd time
October 21st, 2019 at 4:33 AM ^
Dude, what's with all the spacing? You're not 'The Knowledge' are you, because you're dropping some!
October 21st, 2019 at 4:41 AM ^
I was at that Illinois game! Rocky Harvey, I'll never forget that dude.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:45 PM ^
You, the cube and RX have to be the same person. Some serious epic troll job.
You are way to dedicated to shitting all over a team you claim to be a fan of.
Your narrative is pathetic.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:36 PM ^
He lost twice to Purdue
1996
9-3
2000
32-31
Once of those games was Drew Brees. You know who that is?
In 1999
Lloyd won @ Syracuse @#20 Wisconsin #11 Purdue, @#6 Penn State, Ohio State and beat Alabama in the Orange Bowl.
Finished #5 in the country. If Harbaugh made a run against a schedule like that youd build a statue of him lol
October 20th, 2019 at 11:39 PM ^
Brees or no Brees, we were way more talented than Purdue in 2000 and had a huge lead but as usual, we blew it and lost.
In fact, in all three of our losses in 2000, (UCLA, Purdue, Northwestern) we blew double-digit leads in the second half. If you had been old enough to live through that you'd probably have been posting on an early message board calling for him to be fired.
BTW, the 1996 Purdue team was terrible, missing a bowl. They beat us 9-3.
October 20th, 2019 at 11:54 PM ^
Well Harbaugh is 1-8 vs ranked teams on the road. Lloyd beat 4 in one year.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:02 AM ^
If your argument is that 1997 was better than any year Jim has had, well, yeah, it was. But it was a happy exception, not the rule. In 13 years of Lloyd we were in national title contention beyond midseason twice (1997 and 2006).
October 21st, 2019 at 12:08 AM ^
1999 is the year Carr beat 4 ranked teams on the road (6 overall)
i forgive that slip because he tended to do it alot
14/15 vs ranked teams on the road
October 20th, 2019 at 11:59 PM ^
in 95, 96, 97...that was Cooper's only loss (other than 97)...those Cooper teams only had one issue...name a conference with a top 3 better than Ohio State, Michgan, and Penn State from 94-99
October 21st, 2019 at 12:06 AM ^
OSU lost in the bowl in both '95 and '97. Cooper was as bad in bowl games as he was against Michigan.
PSU had a great team in '94 but was never again that good. They were overrated beyond that, living off JoePa's reputation. We demolished them in '97 and '98.
And Michigan lost four games in '94, '95 and '96, and after the glorious '97, we opened '98 by getting blown out by ND and Syracuse out of conference.
And these were the standard-bearers of the conference. The perception around the country was that our league was a paper tiger. This was when FSU and Florida ran roughshod over everyone else. FSU crushed us in Michigan Stadium when we had Desmond, and blew out OSU in a bowl, too.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:33 AM ^
OSU won the bowls in 96 and 98 (when Cooper did beat Michigan) and finished #2 in the country...the only conference that even could come close to the Big 10 for a stretch was the SEC East (Tennessee and Florida, basically)...Now frankly, this was also a time when Nebrraska was dominant but Nebraksa did not play in a tough conference then as both Texas and Oklahoma were down