Kirby Smart post game comments
I did not mark this OT because it deals with college football in general, not the Orange Bowl game in particular. As we know, UGA beat FSU 63-3, mostly because half of FSU's players opted out for one reason or another and Georgia's players didn't. Here's the money quote:
“People need to look at what happened tonight, and they need to fix this,” Smart began. “Everybody is saying we had our guys, [Florida State] didn’t have their guys. I can listen to all that, but college football has gotta decide what they want. And I know things are changing, and how things are gonna change next year. But you know what? There’s still going to be bowl games outside of [the playoff]. People need to decide what they want and what they wanna get out of it. It’s really unfortunate for those kids on that sideline that had to play in that game that didn’t have their full arsenal. It affected the game, 100%.”
He's calling out the NCAA to fix the portal - first and foremost - and to make the various non-playoff bowls worth more. I have to admit that I never gave a second thought to the other bowl games next year, I've only thought about the playoffs. I didn't even realize that 47 non-playoff bowl games will still be played. And we'll watch them like we did this year while complaining about all the portal losses and draft opt-outs - just like we did this year.
I know Smart runs a really good dark money program in the dark, which is why he gets more 5-stars each year than Michigan gets in 5 years combined. But I also like the way his teams play football. And I can respect that the guy is looking at competitive balance here, even if it seems contrived to some of you (it doesn't feel contrived to me, in this case).
And he's right - the NCAA needs to find a way to fix the portal. What will happen if players still have to enter the portal before the playoffs start next year?
December 31st, 2023 at 8:49 AM ^
A suggestion in two parts: 1) Make revenue sharing with players a thing, and 2) make bowl game participation a part of it. It won't entice top NFL prospects who are eligible for the draft--but it might influence others?
December 31st, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
I would think that if revenue sharing was part of the deal then they would be contractually obligated to play in the bowls.
Also, once we have a 12 team playoff we should probably get rid of all the bowl games that no one watches and have empty stadiums. I suspect they only work economically because the players don't get paid.
December 31st, 2023 at 10:06 AM ^
Create a second tier tournament, like the NIT. 16 teams, 15 games. Will mean more and be more entertaining.
you can’t make 47 non-profitable bowls work.
December 31st, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
Do you watch the NIT? I don't. And like 94 teams play today, cutting that to 16 will exclude 80 schools, some of whom really enjoy participating.
December 31st, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
Plus, how do you add 4(!!) more games to a schedule, that's too many. And if players opt out of one, they aren't playing in 4.
Change the transfer portal so it doesn't open until February or something. If revenue sharing is equal (meaning all players in a biel share it equally), it's not enough to get a MHJ to play for like 75k.
I'm not sure there is a good solution. College football is changing, maybe for the better is some ways, but bowl season isn't one of them.
December 31st, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^
You would have to get really creative to make a transfer portal in February work. The reason players are transferring during bowl season is to be available to compete in spring practices, which requires them being enrolled in school for the spring semester. A February window does nothing. Players wouldn't be able to participate in spring practice anywhere.
A later window would require something like each school guaranteeing kids that transferred from their school could still complete the semester online while participating in athletics at a different school. Not impossible, but not the most workable situation.
December 31st, 2023 at 10:12 AM ^
Unfortunately, revenue sharing is clearly the last thing the NCAA wants. Even though it would make their product 10 times better. They would gladly cut their nose to spite their face.
December 31st, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
Phaedrus,
I appreciate your sentiment Phaedra, me and mine have been having this conversation for decades.
The bowl games began as a reward for those who earned it (originally, 4 or 5 total, bowl games).
Then, someone saw dollar signs and said, "let's make $ and call it a reward."
Now...mayhem.
I'd prefer as many bowl games as the economy will allow. Even those kids (and, they are kids) who've sacrificed and will never make the pros, deserve a reward.
December 31st, 2023 at 12:23 PM ^
Split the bowl revenue with the players and they’ll play. Simple. Workers are entitled to the fruits of their labor.
December 31st, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
How much revenue will realistically be shared? I'm not sure how that works in the NFL. But I doubt each player would get more than 100k for one game (at the most), so that will not get a 1st rounder to play who would otherwise opt out. Maybe a 3rd rounder or some of the portal guys, but not the stars. They aren't giving 1 player 500k or anything.
December 31st, 2023 at 3:30 PM ^
A LOT of schools lose money on bowl games. Schools are obligated to purchase a certain amount of tickets. If school can't sell them all they eat those tickets. Flying a football team, coaches, training staff, etc to a bowl and putting them in a hotel for a week and feeding them isn't cheap.
Now, maybe the TV network is making money on the bowl games but a lot of schools lose money on a bowl game.
December 31st, 2023 at 1:28 PM ^
The real problem is that, since the dawn of the BCS, all media attention all season long focuses on who will make it: first to the BCS, then the 4--team playoff, now the expanded playoff. With a 4-team playoff that is literally all the talking heads talk about all season. No one talks about conference titles, so they've grown to mean nothing. No one talks about the Rose Bowl brought to you by cat litter. I was explaining to my kid last night that the NCAA used to have a PR motto to set themselves apart from the NFL: "Every game matters". That is what made college football exciting and why I vastly preferred it to the NFL. Now it is just the NFL with two super-conferences and a playoff. It's ruined, and a vastly expanded playoff has made sustaining the bowls impossible. The biggest bowls this year drew no attention at all. Division II doesn't do bowls from non-contenders and a playoff. It's absurd. College football is the NFL as of 2024. And it's going to be incredibly boring. Just watch it on Sundays.
December 31st, 2023 at 11:15 AM ^
Yes. I'm very much on the players' side, to the extent that I agree with Saban and others that they need collective bargaining/a union. But if you have a union, then you sign a contract. And it would be perfectly reasonable on the part of schools to make bowl participation, should schools qualify, a part of that agreement.
EDIT: On Tallahassee.com the FSU football cult is a) insisting that the drubbing was meaningless (I think it's something of a black eye), and b) hating on the kids who didn't play.
I totally get some kids not risking big money to participate. (Joel Klatt has been clear on this subject.) BUT it is fascinating that Kirby gets all his bluechip guys to play and Mike Norvell loses 22 guys; some of those FSU players have to be pretty marginal. Might beg questions about just what the differences in the culture of those two programs is. . .
December 31st, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^
What makes the FSU player opt out even worse is they actually did have something to play for.
Norvell was talking about how the Seminoles were the real national champions and beating Georgia was a chance to prove it. Yet half his starters sit out, even some fringe guys who could have helped their stock.
December 31st, 2023 at 1:29 PM ^
Saban has certainly enjoyed the fruits of a non-competitive market and said nothing for most of his career. But sure, now he wants to be on the right side of history.
December 31st, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
Make revenue sharing with players a thing
Uh, you missed the "without paying the players a single penny" part of Smart's rant. Probably because it's silent. It's one of those implicit, goes-without-saying things, you know?
December 31st, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^
They should consider starting with bowl game revenue shared with the players, and a higher portion shared with the winning team. If bowl pay is tied only to participate you may see several guys leaving the game early due to 'injury'.
Regardless if someone is a lock to get drafted, there isn't necessarily going to be any reasonable motivation for them to play in a bowl game and put millions at risk.
December 31st, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
I should have scrolled down before posting, you beat me to it. Not enough revenue to share to compel the top talent in a way that would be considered remotely fair.
December 31st, 2023 at 1:30 PM ^
Players should crowdsource money to be paid for non-playoff bowl games. And, to make it more interesting, they should also get revenue by crowd-sourcing the play selection.
December 31st, 2023 at 8:49 AM ^
It's not just about the transfer portal. Players also opt out to avoid injuries in a "meaningless" bowl game and prep for the NFL draft. Not sure how the NCAA could force Marvin Harrison Jnr, for example, to play in a bowl game.
December 31st, 2023 at 8:59 AM ^
If there was some "force" provision in an NIL agreement - I would predict that instead of "opting out" - a number of players would have a minor injury / health issue that's difficult to diagnose. It could be the cold / flu - or a "soreness" somewhere that would impact their ability to compete at 100%.
My view of the current situation isn't positive. I respect the player's interest - however, I also respect the university's interest. The university makes a four year scholarship commitment to a student athlete - and, the student athlete's commitment to the university is - what? With the portal and NIL - it seems like there is no commitment beyond the current season that obligates the student athlete to the university. The football student athlete is essentially committed to three years of college football - since the NFL requires a football student athlete to be three years removed from high school before entering the NFL draft - but, that's about it.
It would seem to be fair that a student athlete and university have an agreement - which defines the association for a period of time. However, any agreement doesn't seem to even enter the discusion.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^
Scholarships are a one year at a time thing - they're renewed each year. Unless that changes, it's a 1-yr commitment from the school to the student. Not sure how you can change that for a different time period, but it shouldn't be too difficult.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:32 AM ^
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but schools can give a 4 year commitment for scholarship but most do not. It's typically year to year
December 31st, 2023 at 9:42 AM ^
I believe the school / conference have an option - it's either a one year renewable offer, OR - a four year offer.
Several years ago, the B1G conference standard was a four year "Grant in Aid" / Scholarship for all student athletes. Other conferences offered one year renewables - and, IIRC, those conferences included the SEC and ACC.
Whether the B1G or other conferences have changed their position over the past few years is something I'm not aware of.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
Michigan does 4 year scholarships. Most other schools don’t. In any event, not sure how you tie scholarships into NIL and forcing players to play without basically admitting NIL is pay to play orchestrated by schools transferring money from car dealership kingpins and other questionable sheisters (see Michigan players doing Mike Morse commercials who has been the subject of numerous civil and criminal investigations for his activities) to players.
December 31st, 2023 at 10:15 AM ^
And, should a player become unable to play football because of injury - Michigan has always honored the academic portion of the scholarship to allow the player to complete their degree.
Grant Newsome - completed both his Bachelor's and Master's degrees at Michigan - is / has been a member of Michigan's football staff in various capacities - as an assistant and position coach - is an example of how Michigan addresses scholarship offers.
December 31st, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
And then those car dealers claiming the money went to a charity…
December 31st, 2023 at 10:24 AM ^
"Force" versus "incentivize" The player gets paid if he plays, otherwise, he doesnt. Make it a separate contract.
For the Marvin Harrison Jrs, it's going to be chump change, but on the margin , it could help.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:18 AM ^
This isn't entirely true. All the guys who transfer before their bowl (IE Traynum and McCord for OSU).
December 31st, 2023 at 2:27 PM ^
Traynum is a multiple time transferer now. He may have been practicing with Kentucky before their bowl?
McCord was certainly with Syracuse for theirs - obviously mentally questioning whether he could transfer again before Spring practice while watching the cuse performance!
December 31st, 2023 at 8:52 AM ^
Probably need to make nil money dependent on playing all the games
Or just cancel the bowls
December 31st, 2023 at 8:52 AM ^
The portal is part of the issue. It seems the bigger challege is the opt outs - and, will players who are planning to enter the NFL Draft process be interested in playing in a bowl game.
The entire system needs to be revisited - that includes the portal, rules for "sitting", signing periods, NIL, etc.
I'm supportive of the players and NIL in its "true" form - Name, Image, and Likeness. NIL is pay for play at a large number of programs - and, reeling it in will be almost impossible.
The CFP has completely diluted the meaning of all but three bowl games - those three (this year) are the two semifinals and final. Every other bowl game is - essentially - meaningless.
In the 12 team format - the Power 4 CCG losers will most likely be in the playoff as a lower seed (5 through 12) - and for five weeks (CCG plus the four weeks of the CFP) - the same teams will be playing.
I'm wondering what attendance is really going to look like at the second round CFP games next season.
Part of the real issue is - the lack of leadership and enforcement from the NCAA or the CFP. The CFP seems to only care about revenue. And, the NCAA - I have no idea what they are focused on - it certainly doesn't seem to be enforcement.
I wonder if there's any truth to the rumor that Lamborghini is going to open their largest US dealership in Oxford, Mississippi to support the demand from Ole Miss prospects and commits.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:07 AM ^
Seems like the NCAA is turning into a policing body only. What else do they do?
December 31st, 2023 at 9:13 AM ^
I guess technically, the NCAA is supposed to be a rule making body for collegiate athletics - as well as the enforcement body for those rules.
It doesn't seem like the NCAA is doing anything.
Oh - I stand corrected - the NCAA is the entity that runs the men's and women's basketball tournaments. So, there's a cash flow positive activity / event that they are responsible for. Beside that, I can't figure out what they do.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:15 AM ^
Sit in a room thinking up ways to fuck over Harbaugh and Michigan.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^
I don’t see what’s much different in terms of the number of meaningless bowl games in this NC series era.
If a chance at the NC makes a bowl meaningful, then even before an official 1 v 2 NC game was a thing, only a few games ever had any meaningful impact on it.
In fact, there are four games this year that have meaning. Next year their will be 8, that’s more than I can ever remember being “meaningful” before the playoffs were a thing.
Now that players feel more empowered to sit out a bowl game - many will, and that can lower the quality of the games sure, but I see that more as a shift in the way athletes see their degrees of freedom.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
A small suggestion / correction - this year, it's three games (not four) - the two semifinals and the final.
Next year - it will be 11 games - the first round (on campus) that is four games, then the quarterfinals which is four more games (at bowl sites) - then the two semifinals and the final.
Your point is, IMO, accurate. The interest in non CFP games will continue to dwindle.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:50 AM ^
Maths before coffee is always risky for me…
December 31st, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^
The easy way to the answer is to note the number of teams that need to lose. E.g., for March Madness, it's 67.
December 31st, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
It's not the like Bluebonnet Bowl was "meaningful" in 1985. The difference is those teams played at full-strength. Point well taken.
I like the bowl games, but college football survived and thrived without 40+ of them for decades. They survive monetarily because they gouge the participating schools for tickets. As long as that racket continues, there will be a bunch of them around.
December 31st, 2023 at 8:52 AM ^
I agree with Smart's sentiment, but not his solution approach. The NCAA is demonstrably incompetent. The top 60-80 programs should form a football only alliance to govern themselves and the sport in a way that ensures competitive balance and the players get paid.
December 31st, 2023 at 8:56 AM ^
This is a nice sentiment, and I would be all for it. But Title IX exists, and the federal government will most likely be uninterested in the explanations of such a league. As long as the schools are involved, Title IX will be involved. So whatever solution is bandied about will have to include all the other sports in some form or fashion.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:10 AM ^
How will they attempt to "carve out" football - and, perhaps men's basketball - to reach the desired end state?
And, I'm perfectly fine with revenue sharing for all student athletes - and with NIL as originally intended - the challenge is finding a model that is equitable to support ALL student athletes at an institution.
Oh - with revenue sharing - it would seem to be that certain conferences would still be able to "offer more" - because of the differing values of the media contracts. So, if you're an ACC student athlete you'll get "$X" per season, in the Big 12 - it's "1.3 x $X", in the B1G it's "2.2 x $X", and in the SEC (with available brown bagging) - it's "4.3 x $X" and Lamborghini.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:04 AM ^
I like Kirby somewhat (WAY WAY more than Saban)
Maybe they need to shorten the portal and have it start on 25th thru the 31st...and really really get into enforcing the tampering going on
December 31st, 2023 at 9:06 AM ^
Part of the problem is that the bowl system is corrupt. And about half of them are owned by Disney/ESPN. They make their money off ticket allotments to teams whose fans have no interest in attending and kickbacks from the team hotel operators and compensate the players with trinkets and trips to theme parks.
If the college football world wants to get serious about the bowl system, there would be regulations requiring the bowls to fully reimburse teams for the travel costs and to provide insurance policies to NFL eligible players so that they don't have to quit the team to protect their bodies.
This may eliminate some bowls that shouldn't be played in the first place.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:54 AM ^
No amount of insurance is going to cover an NFL contract, especially that second contract. There’s absolutely no reason to risk your future to play in the Busch’s Baked Beans bowl.
December 31st, 2023 at 6:23 PM ^
Uhh…. free beans?
Like, the Pop Tart bowl got it goin’.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^
You can’t fix the portal. Any changes would screw over the athletes for the sake of a meaningless game. If the portal was later they would not be able to enroll at their new school in time for spring and would thus miss spring practice.
could you give the players a pay out for playing in the bowl game, similar to the pros in playoffs? Yes, but I am not sure it would be enough to discourage opt outs. Probably should still do it, but it won’t fix the problem.
December 31st, 2023 at 9:10 AM ^
Some players will even start to opt out of playoff games. I don’t know what the fix is or if there is one. I would suggest that players need to play the bowl games or the school not have to honor the scholarship but with the portal I don’t think a lot of these guys are playing school anyway.
December 31st, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
Nobody is opting out of playoff games. People keep saying this and it has yet to happen, and it won’t. Players want to play in playoff games, they opt out of the other bowl games because they’re NOT playoff games. The playoffs will be fine. It’s the other games that are absolute jokes.