Juwan's clock is ticking
I'm sure I'll get negged, but this has to be said. Between the temper, the complete lack of team effort, inability to adjust, inability to teach guards to feed the post, no obvious development through long stretches of practice, and just awful strategy, he's on the hot seat.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:07 PM ^
Okay tough guy
December 29th, 2022 at 11:00 PM ^
So, just to clarify, if the team sucks this year, and next year, AND next year, then we can TALK about moving on. Hmmm🤮
Giving him next year makes sense, barring a 22+ loss season. But back to back 20 loss seasons and the time to talk has passed.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:07 PM ^
JB was 67-67 his first 4 seasons at Michigan. JH seems to be ahead of schedule. Also JB didn’t have to deal with NIL, which is a game changer and one of the reasons JB left.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:11 PM ^
Now share Michigans record the four years before JB and the four years before JH. Howard inherited a much better program. At least be honest when biased.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:20 PM ^
You point is taken. However, JB was given years to turn things around and did not have to deal with the transfer portal or NIL. We are not comparing apples to oranges. Plus, we lost two 5 star players expecting to contribute heavily this year as well as another key contributor to the transfer portal. JB knew things were different and that is why he left the program.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:01 PM ^
Not sure what you mean by "biased". Because he has a different opinion than yours?
Anyway, yes, he inherited a different team, but Beilein also had decades of head coaching experience before he came to Michigan. It may be that Howard will take a few years to develop some of those skills.
In the meantime he's recruiting players like Bufkin and Jett Howard (yes, his son, but should he not get credit for that?). Is that so bad?
Again, yes, we all love Beilein. But he wasn't fired -- he left. And he's not coming back. You ready for more Brian Ellerbe, are you?
December 29th, 2022 at 10:12 PM ^
I think the first part of your comment is a bit disingenuous. JB took over a team that hadn't been to the tournament in a decade. JH took over a team coming off 3 straight sweet 16s and a final four in the previous 3 seasons.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:25 PM ^
I agree with your comment, but also think it important to note basketball rosters can, and do, turnover a lot every year so it’s not exactly relevant what the team had done the three years prior as a building block for the current teams.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:42 PM ^
However, JH won with players that JB taught to dribble, shoot, and play defense. JB stressed fundamentals (where is the nozzle on the ball?)
December 29th, 2022 at 10:35 PM ^
I agree they were different circumstances but Beilein did take over a team that the year previously had gone 22-13 and was better than a couple of teams that made the tourney. Now, that team was veteran-heavy and Beilein walked into a team with little established talent but Amaker probably should have made the tourney one of those years but just kept missing out.
And college basketball rosters do have a ton of turnover year-to-year, and so at some point it's hard to compare teams even a year or two apart. Howard has shown he can win with rosters of mostly his guys but he's also shown he needs an above-average PG and he decidedly does not have it this year and arguably not until very late last year. That's a big reason I'm willing to give him a break this year to an extent - he recruited a guy you assumed would have stuck around (Collins) but instead lost him, had basically one replacement on the roster come in an struggle before being lost for the year, and then largely having to ride with an true freshman PG with no room for error.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:26 PM ^
Beilein inherited a team that hadn’t gone to the tournament in a decade. Howard took over the program following a lot of success. There’s an argument for giving Howard one more year if he agrees to clean house (a la Beilein when he struggled), but pretending things are going well right now ain’t it.
December 30th, 2022 at 6:53 AM ^
JH ought to be good at NIL. He comes from the pros.
December 30th, 2022 at 8:30 AM ^
JH ought to be good at taking money... He comes from the Fab 5.
FIFY.
December 30th, 2022 at 5:45 PM ^
No basketball team in history was more thoroughly investigated than the Fab Five and there is exactly 0 evidence that Juwan Howard took one cent.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:10 PM ^
Here’s where I am: this year and next are lost years. If upperclassman Dug, Tarris, Khayat, Glenn, Barnes, Tschetter, and hopefully a senior Kobe aren’t the nucleus of a top 4 team in the big ten with a minimum of a sweet 16 then yeah I’d move on. So I’m giving him 3 years basically. A lot of people will say that’s too lenient but whatever.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:32 PM ^
This year and next year are lost years? You want him going into year 6 still trying to build his program?
December 29th, 2022 at 10:35 PM ^
Where do you expect them to finish in the tournament this year and next year? Beilein had bad years. Harbaugh had a terrible 2020. Coaches can rebuild mid tenure. It’s not that hard of a concept.
2 years after making the championship against Louisville, Beilein missed the tournament then followed that up by losing in the 1st rd. He came back to make the championship game again. That two year stretch of borderline tourney teams is what we are looking at in my opinion. Doesn’t mean Juwan can’t bounce back.
also feel free to give your criteria for letting him go.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:39 PM ^
With 10 top 150 players and a European player who probably would’ve been ranked in the top 150 if he played basketball here I’d expect them to finish in the top 6 of the big ten this year and next year both.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:41 PM ^
Alright that’s fine, so your line is “finish in the top 6 in the big ten both this year and next or your fired” ?
I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:43 PM ^
Or make staff changes that show some level of positive trajectory, but that needs to happen this off-season. I’m not on the fire him train just yet, but I have some serious concerns and not just based on tonight.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:11 PM ^
I swear if I had the patience I'd go back to 2020 and find the numerous "Fire Harbaugh" threads, or before that the "Fire Beilein" ones that existed multiple times during his tenure.
Howard might not turn into a good coach at Michigan but he's taken them to the tourney every year he's been a coach (the season cut short by COVID they were likely making it) and that earns you some patience even if the past 2 years have been slogs. The energy has been off this year and sometimes that just happens; it'll be key seeing how this team bounces back on January 1st. I'm not going to defend Howard's performance this year as a coach whole-heartedly but losing Frankie Collins for reasons seemingly beyond pure playing time, then having your transfer starting PG struggle + get hurt and lost for the year is some on him and some on bad luck.
What he does need to show is a willingness to turn the coaching staff over. If he does this offseason then that's a positive sign he recognizes change is needed. But if he tries to run it all back then he's gotta win next year or he's definitely going to have some tough sledding.
But the idea he's on the hot seat because he's having a bad year is dumb.
December 30th, 2022 at 8:33 AM ^
The difference with Fire Harbaugh is Michigan was getting embarrassed by ohio.
Not good but one can understand ohio. 5 stars, death star, Urban, etc.
Howard just lost to CMU.
At home.
To freaking Central (congrats to them -- just saying though).
December 29th, 2022 at 10:12 PM ^
Another question, why isn’t Phil Martelli getting any of the blame since he was getting all the credit when Michigan was winning? And it wasn’t just RCMB that was pushing that narrative.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:21 PM ^
Isn't it pretty well-established that people believe Howard needs to turn over his coaching staff? Martelli is in that group, and just like he wasn't the reason Howard won but he helped he isn't the reason Howard is losing but he's contributing. I don't see anyone saying "oh man, Howard is just wasting a great assistant coaching performance but Martelli or Eisley."
December 29th, 2022 at 10:36 PM ^
I think the Eisley should be in that group as well. At least Saddi had success with both Beilein and Juwan. Everyone piles on Martelli but the one who always seems to get a free pass is Eisley. What has he done coaching or recruiting to keep his job?
December 29th, 2022 at 10:12 PM ^
He probably isn’t yet in the hot seat but he absolutely should be. As you noted, putting aside the incident at Wisconsin, the quality of our basketball play has been abysmal. The team has absolutely no defensive or offensive identity, the rebounding on both ends of the court is terrible, the overall effort from the team (which is manifesting itself in the aforementioned defensive and rebounding deficiencies) is putrid, recruiting is mediocre and, perhaps worst of all, players are not developing one iota. TWill is identical and hasn’t improved a bit in 3 years and Hunter has actually regressed significantly. There isn’t a single area in which he is doing well as a coach currently.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:25 PM ^
I'd say Bufkin has made marked improvement from last year to this. And Terrence Williams is basically what you'd expect from a guy like him - he's a replacement-level starter on a P5 roster. He's basically Brandon Johns at his best with a bit more of a motor and lower athleticism.
The rebounding and effort have seemingly waxed and waned by opponent, which is the most damning sign for a coach. Michigan should either be hammered by your UVa, UKs, and UNCs and then get in dog fights with mediocre MAC schools instead of playing pretty well in those tougher contests and barely being the bad ones. But that's also a sign of a young team that, again, is basically all new starters save for Dickinson.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:12 PM ^
The biggest issue I have is for multiple years you see low effort, poor development, and undisciplined play. Really disappointing.
most examples of the above can be seen on defense…even when they win.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:16 PM ^
Need to bring in and develop more PG. Asking an 18 year old to run the team after 5 games is not a recipe for success
December 29th, 2022 at 11:09 PM ^
Fully agree. This, it seems to me, is a key. It's certainly partially Juwan's responsibility -- the roster is his responsibility, and losing Collins seems like something that might have been avoidable with better communication. (Nobody knows for sure, but it's possible).
But losing Llewellyn sucks -- yeah, he wasn't playing well, but it was still early, and I was confident he'd get better -- and that's not Juwan's fault.
And what this team is missing, really, is a point guard. To get Dickinson the ball in the post, to drive-and-dish, and even just to manage the energy on the floor.
It's funny -- everybody knew that we were really going to struggle with so few guards, and we all really knew we'd struggle once Llewellyn went down. But it's one thing to "know" that, and it's another to actually see it play out. We don't think, "yeah, that's what happens when you don't have a point guard." We think ... "our coaching sucks."
I'm not trying to absolve Juwan of responsibility. I'm just saying ... let's not forget that we all knew we'd be in big trouble when Llewellyn went down.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:12 PM ^
The clock is ticking for all of us.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:16 PM ^
The end of game management was pathetic.
Less than 30 seconds, CMU is in 1-and-1, you foul up 1. You can pick the shooter! Be too rough in the post, find the guy that shoots 50-60%.
40% you get the ball back up 1
24% you get the ball back tied with the last shot
36% chance you’re down 1, with chance to score/win at 50/50ish
This should be common fucking sense at this point, like fouling when up 3. But until it becomes the norm for coaches they’re too scared to do it.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:53 PM ^
I believe this implies we'd get the rebound off any miss and our rebounding is atrocious.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:16 PM ^
Posts like this normally bring out comments about "Beilein guys" (ones coached by him at least one year). Surprisingly, I haven't seen any yet.
Here are the yearly records of the Howard seasons with the "Beilein guys" and the total number. I'm considering only players who averaged more than ten minutes a game.
'19 to '20: 7 of 8, 19-12 overall (10-10 Big Ten)
'20 to '21: 4 of 8, 23-5 overall (14-3 Big Ten)
'21 to '22: 2 of 9, 19-15 overall (11-9 Big Ten)
See a correlation? I don't. The first and third years are quite similar despite having vastly different numbers of Beilein players. In Howard's best year four of the top six scorers were "Howard guys."
I'm open to hot seat discussions as they concern Juwan, but if he's failing the answer isn't "lack of Beilein guys."
December 29th, 2022 at 10:56 PM ^
Well now all of the "Beilein guys" are completely gone from the program and its a tirefire? So now what?
December 30th, 2022 at 7:05 AM ^
Here:
"I'm open to hot seat discussions as they concern Juwan ..."
December 29th, 2022 at 10:17 PM ^
It has already been said plenty
December 29th, 2022 at 10:22 PM ^
Juwan is toast no excuse for this.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:24 PM ^
Only if he has another incident that actually has him putting his hands on someone. The big worry is that he's not getting the top one-and-dones, but do we really want them? College basketball seems broken to me, and I'm fine taking a few years off of caring so that they can figure something out.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:37 PM ^
Aren’t all of our clocks ticking on this blessed earth?
December 29th, 2022 at 10:40 PM ^
I’m otter of ennui-ing this until January 9th
December 29th, 2022 at 10:50 PM ^
This hawt take brought to you by the same fans who wanted Harbaugh, Bakich, and Beilein fired.
December 30th, 2022 at 12:56 AM ^
Bacon n mitch drafting their next books
December 29th, 2022 at 10:51 PM ^
I’m “pro Michigan” and support our coaches and teams. I hope Juwan can do what is necessary - from a recruiting, development, and game execution - to ensure Michigan competes for B1G titles and “dances well,”
He is an incredible ambassador for the program and the school.
December 30th, 2022 at 8:42 AM ^
He is an incredible ambassador for the program and the school.
You have an interesting definition of the term "incredible ambassador".
December 29th, 2022 at 10:54 PM ^
Not too long ago there were seething comments about Harbaugh. There were threads about letting him go. Look, Juwan did not have a good season so far. Let us see what happens at the end of the season. Hot seat and fire him kind of talk mid season is just demoralizing. Take a few days before posting stuff like this as it seems like a reaction to a bad loss.
December 29th, 2022 at 10:59 PM ^
The reality of it is that Beilein was a great basketball coach. Juwan Howard based on all available evidence isn't at this time.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:05 PM ^
Yep. If they don't turn the corner next year, hard decisions need to be made.
December 29th, 2022 at 11:08 PM ^
Keep Calm and watch the Hallmark Channel