Joel Klatt on Harbaugh's future at Michigan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmLJiqrkKag
13 minute mark and runs about 2 minutes.
Nothing we don't know.
But it's a short discussion with some of the reasons people have had enough of Jim.
November 3rd, 2021 at 8:31 PM ^
Listened to it today, nothing he really said that was inaccurate. I expect Harbaugh back in 2022, but for the crowd saying "Michigan is never firing Harbaugh", his buyout is much lower than it was previously. I think both sides of this debate is on a "wait and see" scenario.
November 3rd, 2021 at 10:48 PM ^
Michigan is in the equivalent situation of NBA 8th seed purgatory under Harbaugh right now
November 4th, 2021 at 1:11 AM ^
Your takes are consistently some of the worst on the board. Just awful.
A fringy bowl-eligible team is like an NBA 8th seed.
UM is more like a 4th seed—they routinely drill the dregs/tanks of the league, but have no real chance of advancing past the Conference Semis when they inevitably run into a 1.
November 4th, 2021 at 7:37 AM ^
You insult the poster and then co-opt his metaphor??? I know this is the internet where dickery is pretty much encouraged but let's try to make this community better than some random message board. Disagreements are great and what makes discussions lively but keep them civil.
November 4th, 2021 at 7:44 AM ^
Comparison makes sense but using 8th in the standings is wild. That is usually a team struggling to be .500
November 4th, 2021 at 10:09 AM ^
You're not considering that professional sports have more measures to build parity. Michigan isn't on a level playing field against their schedule so only winning half your games with Michigan's advantages is plainly bad. Bowl eligibility is not nearly equivalent to making the playoffs in a pro league.
November 4th, 2021 at 10:50 AM ^
I'm not diving that deep though. Talking strictly win, losses, etc. Half the league gets to make the playoffs. So does it really mean that much if they do?
November 4th, 2021 at 8:52 AM ^
If nobody tells the smelly kid he's smelly, he'll never start wearing deodorant.
~Socrates
November 4th, 2021 at 7:36 PM ^
I am fairly certain that you are incorrect in your assertation that Socrates spoke those very words my dear fellow. We know well certain that based on the inscriptions found on the Rosetta Stone by Sir Arthur Doyle that it was most certainly not a Socrates who spoke these words. The whole entire idea is preposterous! Instead, based on the research of a sizable throng of cunning linguists, we can deduct that the words you quoted can attributed to none other than Penistratus, the tyrant of Lesbos, from 200 years earlier.
November 4th, 2021 at 9:47 AM ^
We're the Pacers of college football.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:24 PM ^
Colors check out ...
November 4th, 2021 at 3:33 PM ^
Jim's buyout is a non-issue. I am part of the crowd that has said that Warde will never "fire" Jim because Jim will not allow it to come to that. Jim will step down if he feels that he does not have the support of Warde, alum and, especially, current and previous FB players. He will leave at some point and will do it so that Warde will have plenty of time to find the right coach. I mentioned at the end of last year that Jim was thinking of retirement but decided against it. From what I know, he still feels very good about the situation and the team. So, the chances are almost zero that he will retire at the end of this year.
November 3rd, 2021 at 8:31 PM ^
People who want to get rid of Harbaugh have dreams of Michigan becoming Nebraska
November 3rd, 2021 at 8:33 PM ^
I want another year of Harbaugh, but I think that Michigan has some institutional/geographical advantages that would avoid them becoming Nebraska if they fired Harbaugh after a couple 9-3 seasons.
November 3rd, 2021 at 9:29 PM ^
I don’t think this is true after RRod and Hoke. We’ve lived a shorter version of what Tennessee and Nebraska are experiencing. I would argue Tennessee is in a very good recruiting area being not to far from several talent rich states including Ohio
November 3rd, 2021 at 9:32 PM ^
So does USC (many would argue even moreso), hasn't helped them one bit.
It can always get worse.
November 3rd, 2021 at 9:35 PM ^
Sure, but things can always get better as well.
From my comments, I know it seems I am sitting on a fence. I am for keeping Harbaugh for the next 1.5 seasons. But, I just don't think it is crazy for people to infer that a coaching change could improve Michigan's standing if Michigan treads water again these next couple seasons.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:12 AM ^
It could but it probably wouldn't because you'd have to land an absolute home run.
That said, Michigan might have a legit strength when it comes to NIL and that could make landing a homerun more likely.
November 4th, 2021 at 6:46 AM ^
When you are sitting in the top 10 with one of the best rushing offenses in the nation, it's much more likely to get worse than better.
Factor in the recruiting battles and schedule of OSU and MSU each year, and you have another factor making this job more difficult than most.
November 4th, 2021 at 11:31 AM ^
When you are sitting in the top 10 with one of the best rushing offenses in the nation, it's much more likely to get worse than better.
You're looking at a snapshot in time that is not indicative of JH's tenure. There are lots of snapshots that looked good. 9-0 in 2016, 4-0 in 2017, 10-1 in 2018, and 7-0 in 2021. Unfortunately when you start factoring in October & November it starts to look bleak. 1-3 to finish 2016, 5-4 to finish 2017, 0-2 to finish 2018, and we'll see how he finishes out this season but he already lost to MSU and other ranked teams are still yet to be played.
Beating the bottom half of the B1G and non-conference non-P5 teams doesn't mean much to a program like UM. UM should really never consistently lose to those teams with their resources. Instead look at his record against the rivals, ranked teams, or teams with winning records and the picture looks a lot different. Against Iowa, Wiscy, PSU, MSU, & OSU he is a combined he is 10-16. Even if you get rid of OSU and PSU which are the two teams with either more or similar talent he is still 7-8 against Iowa, Wiscy, & MSU. I think lots of coaches can do better. Based on talent alone there is no way he should have a losing record against those three.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:12 PM ^
The facts don't lie. Then, what else is there? He recruits well, especially after the dismal 2-4 record of last year. He changed all but 2 assistant coaches so the jury is still out on that.
The big question being asked is what will Michigan's record be these last 4 games? If they be at least 3-1, loss to OSU, do we call it good? If 2-2 a resounding no (lose to Penn State & Buckeyes)
November 5th, 2021 at 1:27 AM ^
The problem is that a coaching hire is one of the lowest confidence, highest risk moves you can make. There are literally 1-2 people operating at the level everyone dreams about, that Saban/Urbs level. There’s a tiny handful of Dabos and the like, arguably a tier below and still very coveted.
Beyond that there are oceans of has-beens, half-asses, stars in their brief moment, never was-es, and never will bes, all with not a whole lot separating them on paper. It’s so wildly unpredictable, with the potential lows SO brutal and so nearby… we went from Nick Saban to Bobby Williams & John L Smith clownery in an eye blink. Dantonio was the goat, then suddenly lost the edge.
Harbaugh is a solidly above average, never-gonna-sink-the-ship guy. Michigan has all the assets, the brand, the money. You’ll inevitably be in the mix every so often. You’re ND (but your religion is yourselves). I wouldn’t mess with it, personally.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:18 AM ^
Same with Texas.
I don't think anyone outside of OSU and LSU have any "institutional" advantages anymore. For everyone else you have to have an elite coach to be elite and those just don't grow on trees. Even Bama had their dark times before Saban and will likely not sustain at this level when he's gone.
November 4th, 2021 at 11:53 AM ^
For everyone else you have to have an elite coach to be elite and those just don't grow on trees.
I don't think of James Franklin as elite, but he has done more with similar talent. The problem isn't JH's record or consistency. We know he'll consistently get you 7-10 wins. The problem is he can't win big games, beat teams with more talent, and has a cap on his win total. You have to ask yourself if you are willing to accept being roughly .500 against the top 4-5 teams in the conference while never beating OSU, just so you can consistently beat the bottom 9-10 teams in the conference. If you're cool with that, keep JH around. I am personally frustrated and bored for that matter with the same thing year after year and want to find someone that at least gives us a glimmer of hope to once in a while when the chips fall right have a shot at making the playoffs. I'd rather go 6-6 one year if that means next year we might go 12-1.
November 5th, 2021 at 5:32 PM ^
Id love to hear you after that 6th loss that season. Ive got a feeling it wouldnt be so cut and dry. Harbaugh needs to do better and we shouldnt be happy. But where he is right now is absolutely where he should be judged. 7-1 with 2 of his toughest 3 yet to play. We will see.
November 4th, 2021 at 10:07 AM ^
Did you sleep through the 12 or so years before Harbaugh?
November 4th, 2021 at 10:36 AM ^
There was a time when 3 losses, including 1 or 2 conference losses was sufficient to secure at least a share of a B1G championship, a trip to Most Glorious Rose Bowl Game of Football (half of the time), a win over OSU (half of the time), and the continuation of what used to constitute excellence in coaching. The last 4 B1G championships seasons for M, including the bowl game, all ended with 3 losses:
- 1998 Lloyd Carr 10–3 (7–1, OSU) -> co-B1GC, Citrus(W), AP#12
- 2000 Lloyd Carr 9–3 (6–2, Purdue & Northwestern) -> co-B1GC, Citrus(W), AP #11
- 2003 Lloyd Carr 10–3 (7–1, Iowa) -> outright B1GC, Rose(L), AP #6
- 2004 Lloyd Carr 9–3 (7–1, OSU) -> co-B1GC, Rose(L), AP #14
The differences between then and now?
- No more John Cooper at OSU
- B1GCG - no more shared titles (doesn't matter for M, because #3)
- OSU daikaiju keeps sitting on M, thwarting any chance at a B1GC
November 4th, 2021 at 2:11 PM ^
The differences between then and now?
- No more John Cooper at OSU
- B1GCG - no more shared titles (doesn't matter for M, because #3)
- OSU daikaiju keeps sitting on M, thwarting any chance at a B1GC
You acting as if the only time in the history of the OSU/UM rivalry that UM was competitive with OSU was during the Cooper years. Woody dominated UM in the 50s and early 60s and Bo turned things around. Times continue to change and programs must adapt. The problem is UM is not adapting.
November 3rd, 2021 at 8:35 PM ^
At least this board hasn't been getting barraged with the name Brent Venables for a while. Him getting beat worse by Ohio St than Don Brown ever did finally ended it.
November 3rd, 2021 at 8:36 PM ^
Why are you so certain that we'll end up like Nebraska if we fire Harbaugh? Mel Tucker has been at MSU two years and has already built a better program than we have. I would risk ending up like Nebraska for the chance to own the Big Ten. We've been in purgatory for 7 years now.
November 3rd, 2021 at 8:40 PM ^
Lol "better program" cool story bro
November 3rd, 2021 at 11:00 PM ^
0-2. Cope harder.
November 3rd, 2021 at 11:11 PM ^
You are insufferable. We’re #7 with a chance to still make the playoffs or play in the Rose Bowl. What the fuck is wrong with you people that you can’t just enjoy the ride?
November 3rd, 2021 at 11:16 PM ^
We're 0-2 to a second year head coach that didn't get their first off-season and has 40-something transfers. At an institution with a fraction of our resources. That's unacceptable.
Also, the Rose Bowl doesn't mean what it used to. It's playoff or bust nowadays.
November 3rd, 2021 at 11:23 PM ^
#7. Still in the playoff hunt. We lost to an undefeated, top 3 team in the country on the road by 4 with the refs swinging the final score by 10 points, conservatively. And yet, all you do is bitch and say the same things over, and over and over again. Don’t you get tired of being miserable?
November 3rd, 2021 at 11:30 PM ^
Of course I don't get tired of being miserable! I'm a Michigan fan!
November 4th, 2021 at 12:16 PM ^
Are you though?
November 4th, 2021 at 7:07 AM ^
Playoffs or bust? There have been like 11 teams in the playoffs...total. We've been close twice. Acceptable, of course not. Seems like we just found our identity again, instead of chasing everyone else. I am for riding this out through next year. This team seems like it was being built for next year anyway. Get to the GAME with a chance to win/tie the division and let the chips fall where they may.
November 4th, 2021 at 11:42 AM ^
THIS is exactly right!
November 4th, 2021 at 12:34 PM ^
I don't know why everyone is giving KState such a hard time. Maybe folks are just playing devil's advocate as a response to his exaggerated negativity? While I don't think MSU has a better program than UM, it's clear Tucker has gotten more out of this talent than JH has this year. He's also beaten UM twice in a row with less talent. And, MSU still needs to play PSU & OSU. I'm skeptical they are a playoff team. And anyone who's referencing UM in the playoff hunt is short sighted. The only way UM makes the playoffs is if they beat OSU and that is unlikely. The playoffs will be some combination of UGA, Bama, Oregon, OSU, & Oklahoma. UM will be fighting PSU for #3 in the division if they can take care of business against Indiana & Maryland.
November 4th, 2021 at 12:48 AM ^
The team is 7-1 after losing by 4 points to an undefeated 8-0 team now ranked #3 in the country.
Get a grip on reality you absolute clown
November 4th, 2021 at 6:52 AM ^
Those 40 transfers are why he’s able to compete. He took full advantage of the transfer portal after he purged the team.
our admin won’t allow that to happen
additionally, our admin stop great players like Xavier worthy. Think how our season would be if he had been able to enroll.
these are institutional things harbaugh has been fighting.
arm chair coaches who have probably never played or coached a down of football. Lol.
November 4th, 2021 at 9:08 AM ^
Admissions didn't prevent Worthy from enrolling. That was an issue with unfiled paperwork from the football department which prevented him from enrolling early. Also, turning over 30% of your roster and getting them acclimated to your program and your system in one summer is incredibly difficult. the bottom line is Mel Tucker, in 2 years, has beaten Jim twice and is recruiting at the same level in the 2022 class.
November 4th, 2021 at 10:34 AM ^
UnAcCepTaBle!!!!
November 4th, 2021 at 10:57 AM ^
Sorry, but using last year in counting any kind of "streak" is only useful if you are peddling a pre-conceived narrative. It was a covid year, with tons of injuries and opt outs, and we made major changes on the staff since then. We are doing way better than anticipated, because everyone believed that this was going to be a transition year, particularly for the defense. We should be as good or better next year, and I don't foresee the same for MSU.
Yeah, Tucker has done a nice job, and yet his entire team is relying on having won the transfer lottery with Walker. Without him, they likely have 2-3 losses. With him, they still might end up with 2-3 losses.
Despite all of the mistakes we made on Saturday, we win with an even remotely competent officiating crew. Ask Matt Campbell about the sustainability of requiring the coin-flip to come up heads 10 times in a row in order to win games.
November 4th, 2021 at 8:02 AM ^
You’re trying to reason with an MSU fan pretending to be a Michigan fan.
He should be sent to Bolivia.
November 4th, 2021 at 8:03 AM ^
You’re trying to reason with an MSU fan pretending to be a Michigan fan.
He should be sent to Bolivia.
November 3rd, 2021 at 8:45 PM ^
Maybe we should wait on judgment of Mel Tucker until after the best transfer pickup in a generation leaves.
November 3rd, 2021 at 9:24 PM ^
Mel is also still benefiting from the remnants of Dantonio's magic (the kind he used to find contributors in the low 3-star range). Look at where these starters were ranked in high school:
750: https://247sports.com/player/jalen-nailor-87834/
1127: https://247sports.com/player/jacob-slade-94255/
1096: https://247sports.com/player/payton-thorne-46040161/
Not all of their starters were ranked that low. It's also true that Michigan (e.g., Ronnie Bell) has done the same. Dantonio did it often, though.
November 3rd, 2021 at 9:38 PM ^
Dantonio's Magic elixir = PED's