CW97

September 15th, 2016 at 10:03 PM ^

Hate to tell you but they are not clean. I agree they probably aren't as bad as the blue blood programs but not clean. I stayed in their team hotel for the big tournament a couple years ago by pure coincidence. While in the lobby bar 2 guys decked out in wisky gear and a whole lot inebriated were next two me discussing the next gifts and who's should increase. After a couple minutes of talking they decided Brust should get a couple more based on his performance.

Joined: 11/28/2015

MGoPoints: 635

jsquigg

September 16th, 2016 at 12:28 AM ^

We've been through this before and your argument is purely based on tired Beilein stereotypes and speculation with no roots in factual evidence.  Wisconsin doesn't deal with another power program in their state.  Villanova has been less consistent than Michigan even though they were able to finish the job.  You named several coaches last season and none of them were either likely to take the job or had done better than Coach B.  It looks like he's finally addressed the defense and I think this season has potential.

Joined: 09/06/2009

MGoPoints: 9655

WindyCityBlue

September 16th, 2016 at 4:27 AM ^

Your argument would make sense If Wisconsin as a state had a lot of basketball talent. They typically don't. Keep in mind the vast majority of players on that team are NOT from Wisconsin.

Also, the talent that is there DOES compete at times with another basketball school in the state, Marquette.

Joined: 07/23/2008

MGoPoints: 41397

MGoBender

September 17th, 2016 at 9:00 AM ^

"Vast majority" is misleading.  6 current rostered players are from Wisconsin. 11 not.  I wouldn't call that a vast majority; it's a two-player swing.

For comparison: MSU has 7/17 in state, Michigan has 4/17 in state, OSU has 7/13 in state.

INDIANA of all places only has 6 in-state players.  So, saying Wisconsin doesn't have an in-state advantage in recruiting with no other major program is an understatement.  

Joined: 03/26/2010

MGoPoints: 15128

TIMMMAAY

September 16th, 2016 at 8:31 AM ^

your argument is purely based on tired Beilein stereotypes and speculation with no roots in factual evidence.

Are they really stereotypes though? I mean, when have we had a good defense under Beilein? When have we not been undersized? When have we not relied on the 3-point shot excessively? One season?

Joined: 09/08/2008

MGoPoints: 56285

umumum

September 16th, 2016 at 2:29 PM ^

Is the discussion about coaching or recruiting?  

Beilein's coaching ability is rarely questioned....certainly not among his peers---this is where that 64% B10 record comes into play.

Neither Wisconsin nor Villanova are getting many/any 5* or even 4* recruits.  That fact that they are consistently among the top teams in the country fits nicely into Beilein's approach.

Joined: 01/06/2011

MGoPoints: 7882

umumum

September 16th, 2016 at 2:31 PM ^

Is the discussion about coaching or recruiting?  

Beilein's coaching ability is rarely questioned....certainly not among his peers---this is where that 64% B10 record comes into play.

Neither Wisconsin nor Villanova are getting many/any 5* or even 4* recruits.  That fact that they are consistently among the top teams in the country fits nicely into Beilein's approach.

edit:  itchy finger

Joined: 01/06/2011

MGoPoints: 7882

Brianj25

October 1st, 2016 at 1:49 PM ^

The University of Michigan is a destination school for elite college athletes. That's certainly more pronounced in football, but it is still the case in basketball. Michigan should not struggle to recruit at a very high level in any of the major sports. 

Now, it's difficult to compete for the highest-level basketball recruits. There are certain schools that are understandably more attractive at this point in time -- Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, Michigan State, Louisville, maybe even UCLA and Arizona. It should not surprise anybody that Michigan has a really hard time competing for the 25 or so five-star recruits each year. Then there are some secondary issues like players who want to play close to home, players who want to be "the man" at a smaller program, players following family legacy, and yes impermissible benefits occasionally come into play. 

However, there are plenty of highly talented players availabale in each class in the 25-100 range that Michigan should NOT have a hard time competing for. Look at class recruiting rankings. Three or four guys in the 25-100 range is good enough for a Top-10 class every year. Michigan is a destination school that should not have a problem landing three to four players in the 25-100 range with some degree of consistency.    

The problem is that Beilein's playing style and player preferences are unnecessiarly specific and rigid. He's not willing to adjust to the talent pool and craft strategy and tactics around the most talented and gifted group of individuals he can attract to the school. He finds guys who are suited for his system whether or not they are capable of competing in major D-I basketball at a very high level. His system is good and it works -- if and only if he has the right pieces; which, often, he does not. 

Nobody expects Beilein to suddenly reel in a bevy of five-star recruits. People do expect the program to recruit at a level commensurate with the appeal of the University of Michigan. 

Joined: 08/21/2014

MGoPoints: -584

SharkyRVA

September 15th, 2016 at 10:42 PM ^

It is also kind of hilarious that everyone loved Beilein when we were getting our asses handed to us in football.  Beilein was our saving grace during the Hoke and RR years...  he probably kept most of us from committing suicide over the last decase.  Now we have Harbaugh and all of a sudden Beilein sucks?

Joined: 10/01/2015

MGoPoints: 1228

Ronnie Kaye

September 16th, 2016 at 11:26 AM ^

No, Beilein sucks because he's recruiting like he's still at Richmond and doesn't even attempt to contact five stars (Jaylen Brown, Josh Jackson and Mo Bamba have all made "How come I haven't heard from you?" calls to Michigan). If he could keep winning with under the radar recruits, fine. But it looks like his luck has run out there.

Poor defense and ridiculous foul substition policies are the other very valid complaints.

Joined: 05/09/2015

MGoPoints: 104

ldd10

September 15th, 2016 at 8:15 PM ^

Please supply evidence that Izzo is cheating.

Fact is the talent in midwest outside of Chicago has been really good last few cycles, Izzo is a hall of famer, MSU has a good deal of NBA success the last couple years (Draymond is huge for them), and they go to the tournament every year (and often far).  Izzo also works his butt off on the recruiting trail and every commit has had a very logical reason for picking MSU.  

Joined: 07/20/2011

MGoPoints: 944

HAIL-YEA

September 15th, 2016 at 11:09 PM ^

is dirty, it is well known that he got dirty after losing that chicago kid to duke. I rememeber some chicago coach saying he was getting dirty now which was a surprise because he never used to. Isso is a crybaby cheatr and you lost to middle tenn state..get off our board.

Joined: 07/15/2009

MGoPoints: 10810

umfan323

September 15th, 2016 at 7:43 PM ^

I trust him to find diamonds in the rough when it comes to Guards and SF's but Big men we need these kinds of recruits.. I find it maddening that if you look at ESPN/Rivals top 100 high school basketball players that there is always a few big men that go to a school that shouldn't be getting top players yet we can't get a good big man to go to Michigan ... The #8 prospect in the country a center has verbally committed to Western Kentucky ... Why are we not pursuing this young man ??

Joined: 01/19/2011

MGoPoints: -99997697

StrictlyShorts

September 15th, 2016 at 7:55 PM ^

However not everybody can get into Michigan. And to build off of that, if he's committed to wku, why aren't the other guys recruiting him? Maybe the young man wants to go to school there.

Joined: 07/23/2016

MGoPoints: 6413

Blueblood2991

September 15th, 2016 at 8:07 PM ^

This was more the case of him wanting to play for a coach. The guy from Texas A&M took the WKU job and the player followed him over there. Made it pretty clear that he was staying there. (Granted, TAMU's recent upswing in talent raises some eyebrows as well)

And as much as it bugs me, Michigan uses the NCAA for academic requirements. Hence the reason we just had the NCAA clearinghouse issue with Hawkins.

Joined: 06/11/2015

MGoPoints: 14348

Dirk Dinkmeyer

September 15th, 2016 at 8:05 PM ^

Or, we could pretend Beilein is some kind of great coach because he made a once-in-a-lifetime run in the NCAA tournament and hasn't done shit since.

And isn't recruiting very well. 

But yeah, let's just rail on guys who have legitimate criticisms and tell them they suck, when, really,

 

We refuse to admit Beilein is just an average coach and Michigan is an average program under him.

Joined: 09/15/2016

MGoPoints: 4