Insider rumblings on Michigan's forthcoming response
I did a morning scour of reputable insider posting on social media and the paywalled boards today. (Subscribe to those sites to read the exact content for yourself. It's worth it if you are obsessed with Signgate.) Here are some of the interesting nuggets:
- There is a rumor that video of Michigan practices was stolen and shared with Michigan's competitors. This is why, last offseason, Michigan erected a fence around its outdoor practice field. Michigan may have evidence of who stole the footage and shared it.
- Insiders say that Michigan has shared with the NCAA how common the practice of sign-stealing is, including Illinois' Ryan Walters having all of Michigan's signals in advance of last year's game, and "someone" allegedly sharing our signs with Purdue, via video, in advance of the B1G championship last year. As we know, sign-stealing is not inherently illegal, but sharing video might be.
- Isaiah Hole seems confident that Michigan is going to "strike back" in a way that is forceful and narrative-altering, but I will reserve judgment on that until we see what Michigan actually has.
- In my view, if the B1G hands down this absurd indefinite suspension, Michigan should make a show of considering a departure to the ACC (or, at the very least, adopting ND's approach of semi-ACC affiliation) by leaking that they are discussing it internally.
November 5th, 2023 at 5:09 PM ^
This was said on another thread but it bears repeating: "The Big Ten" is a few different entities. There are the Big Ten coaches, the Big Ten athletic directors, the Big Ten presidents and schools. And then there's conference administration.
The Big Ten coaches (well, about ten of them) are tired of the six-score humiliations and want Harbaugh gone. The AD's want whatever their football coaches want. The presidents want what their ADs want as long as the risk isn't too great.
And I don't think Petitti wants to be doing any of this. He's orchestrating his part, with a big assist from Ono, in a way calculated to get the presidents to think through that risk calculation one more time.
November 5th, 2023 at 2:33 PM ^
Overall question: does the Big Ten only have authority to suspend for Big Ten games? Does the Big Ten have jurisdiction over CFP games? My guess is that the member schools have to honor disciplinary decisions for all games played by member schools, even non-conference games, but I’m not sure.
November 5th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
I truly hope UM fights back with everything possible. Most of these schools complaining have been getting rich for years off of what UM has accomplished. The block M is recognized around the world. What percentage of other big ten schools can say that.This whole scenario is dystopian.
November 5th, 2023 at 2:46 PM ^
I say Go Independent and :Leave the BIG if this gets out of control .Im OK wiith that
November 5th, 2023 at 3:05 PM ^
Ohio State doesn't have an identity without Michigan. The Big Ten doesn't have a marketable rivalry without Michigan. NBC, CBS, and FOX would lose half their CFB viewership without Michigan.
Discussing leaving the conference would certainly gain serious attention.
November 5th, 2023 at 3:15 PM ^
Do we have some Harbaugh brothers who run an outside investigative firm?
November 5th, 2023 at 3:55 PM ^
Just another who is a phenomenal coach and helps us with identifying great assistants!
November 5th, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
OK, I have a question - maybe someone knows the answer? Seems like there are 3 levels here...
1) coaches-- All big-time coaches are hyper-competitive, and we KNOW that a lot of them are amoral douchebags who are win-at-any-cost (as long as you don't get caught). To THEM, Harbaugh, or any top coach is merely a threat to their job security. Losing games gets you fired. They'd love to see him gone. Just business.
2) Athletic directors-- In most schools with a top-notch program (mostly BB & FB), the AD NEEDS the coaches happy. Top level, happy coach= lots of wins. Makes the AD job easy. Except for Warde, apparently, when Coach says "I want you to do this", AD will carry the water.
But
3) Presidents-- the B1G is actually run by the presidents, and they have differing views on the sports programs. Fortunately, Santa LOVES the athletics, but I know there are presidents who look down on the whole athletic department as an annoyance or maybe a necessary evil.
Sorry for the long post. Finally the question:
How invested are the various PRESIDENTS in this? I mean, the AD's ask them to complain, so they do, but how many of them care enough to push it when they find out they are starting a frickin war? Wonder if Santa is working the phones behind the scenes saying "what are we doing here?"
November 5th, 2023 at 4:12 PM ^
If the Presidents are just told by their ADs and coaches that “Michigan got caught cheating with an extensive network of spies,” they probably won’t know enough to have better insight into what’s really going on.
November 5th, 2023 at 4:22 PM ^
That's pretty much what I'd expect... seems like a phone call president to president could go a long way. "Look, this is the way we see it"
November 5th, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^
I'm guessing there are a few presidents of schools in this conference who are aware that their athletic departments are probably a little dirty and that they're in no way in control of them. "Michigan got caught cheating," they're on board. "Michigan's about to sue us" is a whole different ball game.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:35 PM ^
Yeah, discovery can be a real bitch. (Which means I hope UM also has their house in order.)
November 5th, 2023 at 10:35 PM ^
I just can’t shake the thought that a university president looks at what is happening, thinks about his or her own school, and says “not until you have due process.” If nothing else, isn’t that the safest position from a legal standpoint? If it’s true that the conference cannot act without an investigation of its own, the easiest way out is for the board member to vote no because it’s unenforceable anyway. I can see why OSU would support it, but is there a benefit to anyone else? (Other than the optics of a self-righteous symbolic vote)
legit question, as I legit don’t know how these things work.
November 5th, 2023 at 3:40 PM ^
I kind of think the genesis of this whole overblown controversy traces back to the revelation that MSU's head coach got caught jacking it on the phone.
Like the start of a race, overnight, Michigan suddenly became a one school state for recruiting talent, a monopoly, so to speak, because MSU is a disgraced program. Everyone in the big ten sees that advantage and collectively they all started crying like little bitches.
1. Getting your ass handed to you by Michigan on the football field sucks
2. Seeing Michigan's in state recruiting rival literally getting caught with their dick in their hands certainly makes trying to solve number 1 in the future that much harder.
If we can annually poach 5-8 of the best players who may have once gone to MSU . . . we are going to be steamrolling opponents for a long time boys. Our opponents see that, ESPN sees that, and they can all go fuck themselves and prepare to get crushed.
November 5th, 2023 at 6:32 PM ^
Michigan is not California / Georgia / Florida. What if Michigan got every 4-star that went to MSU? That's not many players. It wouldn't make a significant difference.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:59 AM ^
I hear you, but that game also would become a guaranteed victory. I really do think it puts us in another tier.
November 5th, 2023 at 4:48 PM ^
The B1G doesn't want a pissing match between its member institutions, airing out everyone's dirty laundry.
Can you imagine how ugly that will get? What about the old coaches, scouts, etc. who have nothing to lose? It would be the nuclear option.
I think the other B1G ADs need to be VERY careful, because if Michigan has proof of anything, it could be a mess for everyone.
November 5th, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^
Exactly. This is why, were I president Ono, I'd be having private conversations behind the scenes... "If you screw us, we are going full Burn-It-Down mode. Everything we got goes to the B1G, the press, the NCAA & the courts.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:30 PM ^
Isn’t that technically blackmail?
November 5th, 2023 at 5:23 PM ^
I'll believe it when I see it. Not discounting it and obviously hope it happens but having worked in the building, it's just not how things work. Sure, it's not like I was privy to the upper-most plans and details but I think a lot of people have "movie brain" when it comes to this stuff. There is no secret room, floor or dark room where your paid PIs exist solely to create dirt dossiers on opponents/rivals. In the coaching fraternity everyone just kinda knows everyone's dirt and it usually stays there. People know but nothing is done to "snitch" or anything. It's rare anyway.
So to suddenly have some story changing dirt or info shared seems highly unlikely. My guess would be that, at most, Michigan shares the stuff I alluded to above. It could be on par with the ridiculousness of this sign drama but that won't change the narrative. At best it'll get the conference to slow down and maybe consider what it would mean to suspend a coach with no or little evidence (if they have any). The PR battle has already been lost, IMO. The time to fight back and muddy the waters with your own info or defense was two weeks ago. No "anonymous" Michigan sources slipped Eisen, Cowherd, etc anything. Literally nothing to even try to combat the daily nut shots and now that battle is over unless I'm wrong and Michigan has some real shit to share.
I dunno. In my experience, up-to-date folders of program harming dirt on other schools just isn't a thing I ever even came close to seeing or hearing in my time there. Nothing of the sort was even talked about, tbh. Everyone talked and knew but there was a general code that it stayed exactly that. Some rare comments would occur (think an old, long dead, hating ass Purdue HC for one) but that was it for the most part. Everyone who the cheaters were. Everyone knew who the programs that didn't play school were. Etc. Nobody kept that shit in provable databases or anything.
We'll see but for now I'm not getting my hopes up.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:05 PM ^
There’s no possibility of the “indefinite suspension” you reference, at least in terms of the B10. The commish is only empowered to hand out of maximum of 2 games.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:08 PM ^
I just don't see the B1G doing this, now. Whatever happens in a month-year happens but I don't see a commissioner doing this now unless there was a conspiracy to injure a player or coach.
IF Petitti is that weak, he might as well resign. There's been no notice of allegations, or anything else from the NCAA, other than "Hey so and so is saying you won by 30 instead of 27". And "The 3rd base runner who is getting thrown out trying to steal home, says you're spying better than a Russian in a Bond movie"
November 5th, 2023 at 8:58 PM ^
If they try any kind of sanctions we should go full nuclear and snitch on everything. Nobody wants that.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:39 PM ^
My current thinking is that the downside to the B1G of doing nothing at the moment is to have 13 pissed off football coaches. The downside to a premature suspension could be catastrophic for the conference.
I'm going to bet that in the end cooler heads will prevail. They'll be pissed off, but most likely this will play out fairly slowly.
(Now we'll see how well this comment ages in the next day or two...)
November 5th, 2023 at 9:42 PM ^
On the rumblings that Michigan would try to get a temporary restraining order/injunction should the Big Ten go after Harbaugh, I don't necessarily disagree with anything Michigan is doing, but I'm VERY, VERY squeamish about moving this into the legal realm. I'm not going to act like Michigan has nothing to hide and no skeletons in its closet that can be uncovered in civil litigation.
I, for one, would not be overly excited at the idea of Jim Harbaugh and Conor Stalions giving sworn testimony in open court. Civil litigation opens cans of worms that have taken down far more upstanding and virtuous institutions.
If Michigan's legal aim is to narrowly shoot for injunctive relief, that's fine. Should it go further, I have nightmares of Harbaugh getting skewered on witness redirect by the litigation teams of every top 25 law firm retained by other Big Ten schools as he perjures himself talking about Monty at the Battle of El-Alamein, or something.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:12 PM ^
Some problems with that information. First, sharing information is not against the rules. So, remove that idea. Second, you are allowed to use signs from a previous year. So, remove that idea. Third, the wall around practice could also be looked at as the Stallon effect. He was spying so others must be as well so let's hide what we are doing.
There is nothing in this post but conjecture. Also, the other conferences, including the ACC, are pushing for a huge and swift penalty. Why? Playoff spots and playoff money. Hearing a lot from fans of other teams wanting this season forfeited. UGA, Texas, FSU, Washington and Oregon all want Michigan banned. So, let's not kid ourselves and think anyone else will support. They won't!
November 5th, 2023 at 10:58 PM ^
Videos of practice is against the rules. First inaccuracy.
None of those teams have indicated that they want Michigan banned. Second inaccuracy.
Third inaccuracy or more accurately a dubious statement is ascribing the wall to the “Stallion effect”. A stretch that Jane Fonda would admire.
You are a bad troll.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:48 PM ^
I truly hope UM fights back with everything. FWIW (not much) I have a feeling the gutless commish is going to come down hard because he is afraid of the mob.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:17 PM ^
"There is a rumor that video of Michigan practices was stolen and shared with Michigan's competitors. This is why, last offseason, Michigan erected a fence around its outdoor practice field. Michigan may have evidence of who stole the footage and shared it"
Please let this be true, please let this be true.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:27 PM ^
Mgo rebuild the Pac 12!
November 5th, 2023 at 11:39 PM ^
The MGoLawyers can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think there’s anything that would now prevent Connor from speaking publicly about these allegations. This is not a criminal case, and NCAA gag orders likely wouldn’t apply to a resigned former employee.
I would suspect that Connor is not done telling his story. Given that he has put out a press statement with his resignation, I’m sure he has already fielded countless requests for interviews.
I am on the lookout for an article or interview in the coming days with his full side of the story, which address things that we probably don’t know yet. This is probably to both help clear his name, so he is not blacklisted from future jobs, as well as to help his one true love, Michigan football, in its darkest hours.
I am of the belief that Connor’s “scheme” looked too idiotic to be taken at face value. So there’s something we don’t yet know. This is a guy who went to a great school, the US Naval Academy, and has a strong military background. Someone with that education and military background likely doesn’t create a scheme like that. There is a missing piece to the puzzle here, that I think/hope will help clear his name and explain why he did what he did.
I have speculated already about what that missing piece could be. In short, I think Connor is not alone in the Big Ten with recording signals. This would explain how some teams are so good at sign stealing, especially right from the jump. There is no way that teams are only stealing signs within the game and instantly decoding them after a couple drives.
November 6th, 2023 at 1:15 AM ^
I think:
If the Big 10 suspends Harbaugh for even 1 game prior to finalization of due process, Michigan should promptly announce that is it suing the Big 10, and then do so.
If the Big 10 suspends Harbaugh for a lot, Michigan should promptly announce that it is suing them and then follow through, opine that Fox should sue them, and Michigan should look into switching to the SEC.
Michigan could argue that the Big 10 is constructively terminating Michigan from the Big 10, singling Michigan out, taking capricious action at the behest of a mob incentivized against Michigan, not following its own precedent, endangering significant revenue, unfairly and disproportionately harming Michigan's reputation, carrying out a vendetta against a coach perhaps because of his opinion on player compensation, imposing penalty on an innocent man, imposing penalties on a program far out of line with the magnitude of an infraction, etc.
Also, this is a smear campaign, with dirty fighting moved into the realm of public opinion. Michigan can either fight back correspondingly, or get steamrolled there.
To the extent that any of the following is allowed under Big 10 and NCAA rules:
Where Michigan has any evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever, by schools that are pushing for outlandish punishments for Michigan, Michigan should notify those schools that it might have something, is looking into it, and will be back in touch depending if it finds anything Michigan thinks is significant. If Michigan is then still interested in going further, it should put together a package and submit it to the NCAA and the Big 10. It should ask the Big 10 if, without due process, it will be suspending any of those head coaches.
Michigan should hire a PR/PI firm to do (but again only that portion that is within the rules) what the PR/PI firm on the other side has been doing to Michigan.
All just my opinion, of course.