If Jim Harbaugh can’t get Michigan to where it needs to be, who can?
If Jim Harbaugh can’t get Michigan to where it needs to be, who can? The “Son” of Bo and a winner everywhere he has been; the quintessential Michigan Man, Harbaugh is underperforming five years in. But if he can’t take us to the Promised Land, who out there legitimately can?
Is there a deeper cultural problem that exists (Is Michigan too “Clean” to be able to keep up with the Alabama/Clemson/OSU’s of the world? Do we care too much about academics?)?
How do we escape BPONE?
September 21st, 2019 at 10:53 PM ^
And what would the next coach see Michigan to be? Elite, um NO. On the cusp of elite, no. Michigan is a second tier program and job below Bama, Clemson, OSU, and Oklahoma. We are at best, the fourth best program in the Big Ten, if that.
The Michigan job is not one of the top 8 to 10 jobs on the country any more.
Michigan arrogance is a facade when it comes to this program.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:57 PM ^
Where was bama when they hired Nick
September 21st, 2019 at 11:18 PM ^
Coming out of sanctions.
September 22nd, 2019 at 12:19 AM ^
The truth is, no one knows who will work out. Successful coaching hires are just totally random it seems, unless it's a Stoops/Riley situation.
September 22nd, 2019 at 3:17 AM ^
We’d have to be shady and pay our players. We don’t do that at Mi...
Whatever.
Welp, let’s do this. Pay them. Get the best ‘Cruits. Let’s win some championships.
September 22nd, 2019 at 8:29 AM ^
I said nearly the exact same thing to a buddy yesterday. I feel pretty disheartened, but there is one common denominator through offensive struggles the last few years. And Harbaugh is not the same light the world on fire guy he was when he was hired here. Don't know what changed. I'm still going to be ridiculously optimistic and hope that he woke up this morning and said, "Yep, I'm going back to being crazy and fiery again".
September 21st, 2019 at 10:23 PM ^
Don’t have an answer right now. I will say the “clean” thing is an excuse. We have all the resources and can recruit good enough to occasionally steal a win from OSU. Even 20% of the time we should win that game. We can’t even beat decent-good teams 50% of the time. Hire somebody else and take a chance again we’re not getting it done with Jim and 10-3 has never felt so hollow
September 21st, 2019 at 10:26 PM ^
This year 10-3 is a pipe dream.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:36 PM ^
Oh I have NO delusions this team will go 10-3. I wasn’t clear in my post above. I just mean the years Jim has gone 10-3 are hollow years.
September 21st, 2019 at 11:03 PM ^
Remaining schedule:
vs. Rutgers W
vs. Iowa W
@ Illinois W
@ Psu Toss Up , Likely an L
vs. ND L
@Maryland Toss Up
vs. Msu W
@ Indiana W
vs. Osu L
8-4 or 7-5, Meineke Bowl , here come the Wolverines!
September 21st, 2019 at 11:06 PM ^
Right about now I'd actually put MSU as a toss-up, and 7-5 is squarely in play. PSU right now looks like a sure loss.
September 22nd, 2019 at 5:51 AM ^
Damn. I’d actually call this optimistic at this point.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:24 PM ^
I am 56.48% sure that there is a coaching snowflakes thread.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:24 PM ^
Harbaugh is an elite turnaround guy and... this longterm. I'm not the AD, it's not my job, but there are multiple coaches in the USA who could produce a well-prepared team. Harbaugh isn't one of them.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:24 PM ^
I'm sure there are better coaches out there but it's hard to say. All I know is Harbaugh and especially Brown do not deserve anymore excuses. Brown has continued to get his teeth kicked in by teams with good offenses. Can things turn around this season? Maybe. But I think think it's time to move on in opinion. 5 years is enough time to get your program set.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:26 PM ^
We definitely have a culture problem, for decades
September 21st, 2019 at 11:51 PM ^
Does it start with us, the fans?
September 22nd, 2019 at 10:14 AM ^
I’m sure the last person you want to hear from is an OSU fan, but since you asked, I’ll give you an outsiders view. No, I don’t think the troubles with Michigan stem from the fans per say, but I do think many of your fans need to stop with the excuses. I can relate to what you’re going through as a Browns fan. Always hope and optimism, and when it doesn’t come to fruition, it’s always excuses. Refs are out to get us, if only these guys weren’t hurt, etc. Every time the offense or defense struggles, we need a new direction, a new scheme, a new coach. These guys are cheating. Michigan just needs to figure out who they want to be, formulate a plan, and stick to it. Hiring a new OC who supposedly will run a more modern offense and give you speed in space smelled of desperation. It was unlikely you had the personnel for this, since that’s not the scheme players were recruited for, and it was unlikely to mesh with who Harbaugh is. I get the frustration and the calls for a coaching change, but until Michigan formulates a plan of who they want to be, I don’t see that making a difference.
September 22nd, 2019 at 3:21 PM ^
You offer no solution though... Just saying....But your a Buckeye fan, why would you care to offer that... But on the whole ..."but until Michigan formulates a plan of who they want to be, I don’t see that making a difference." Isn't that the Head Coach that should be making those decisions? That's why folks are wanting Harbaugh out...
September 21st, 2019 at 11:54 PM ^
This. The relentless hype and commercialization of a solid program convinced a lot of folks that the program was on the verge of elite. I was convinced.
But Michigan football has a foundational problem and it points to the culture. The team & players seem to believe they are elite despite 2nd tier results. The need to prove that they can be elite. Until the team goes into a tough situation (underdog, OSU game, rowdy road game) and finds the will to win that game, the program will just subsist on hype. Harbaugh doesn’t appear to have the fortitude to get the team to that point. The program needs more chip on its shoulder and less entitlement.
Who gets the job? I would focus more on why and how the guy will build the program and less on who. We forget that Bo was a nobody with a huge load of edge. RichRod and Hoke never had enough edge. Harbaugh once had the edge, but it’s gone. We need a burning focus from the next guy on creating a highly competitive culture.
September 22nd, 2019 at 12:04 AM ^
I want to hug this post but I can’t. It’s good enough it should be a sticky at the top.
September 22nd, 2019 at 9:18 AM ^
Rich Rod did bring a HARD EDGE that one week at Wisconsin in 2010!! Remind me how that worked out...or don't.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:27 PM ^
Any number of people could do better.
There is next to no evidence Michigan is too 'Clean'.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:59 PM ^
Michigan “too clean” is just pure arrogance... One might question that Coach Mattison was a better DC than Coach Brown. Just seems like this team lacks heart and is soft... A lot od season yet to come... but need to get this fixed quickly!
September 21st, 2019 at 10:27 PM ^
How many more losses this year? and it's not about "cleaner programs". Up to 4 more losses?
Hate to think about it but if there's no improvement it's time for a change.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:28 PM ^
Stop comparing Michigan to the top teams. Instead compare them to those in the next tier. We aren't coached as well as them and there's no reason to believe that we will be under Harbaugh. He's just okay. He runs a decent program but he's not a great coach. There are better coaches in our back yard. Tony Annesse at Ferris State could coach circles around Harbaugh.
September 21st, 2019 at 11:55 PM ^
The App State coach who beat us is my candidate. I'd sell my house to see that man coach our team next year. He's won wherever he's been right (without looking up data)!? What's wrong with that hire?
September 22nd, 2019 at 1:13 AM ^
Jerry Moore is 80 years old and hasn't coached since 2012...App State has had two different coaches since then.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:28 PM ^
I'm sorry to disappoint you... but our problem is much bigger than just Jim Harbaugh.
Something is off about Michigan the institution and overall football program..
Something fucked up is going down in Ann arbor.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:35 PM ^
Care to elaborate?
September 21st, 2019 at 10:57 PM ^
WITCHCRAFT!!!
September 21st, 2019 at 10:46 PM ^
what does this even mean? and why would it have an effect on the football program?
IIRC, there have been several other Michigan athletic teams who have done well recently. Why wouldn't they be effected by this "situation" that's eroding the football program?
September 21st, 2019 at 11:13 PM ^
September 21st, 2019 at 10:29 PM ^
Isn't this, what, the 5th post on this very subject?
I'm ready for a change, too, but its not coming this year. Warde won't even say this was a bad effort. Money is not the problem - anybody will get whatever Harbaugh is making. That's the price of doing business today. I just haven't seen anything from Warde to suggest he has 'enough' (power, toughness, support, whatever) to do anything but accept what's happening. In the best situation, JH will find an NFL job in a year or two, and resign as his own idea.
Why did I change my tune? It's not working - I expected one hell of a better performance than this. But honestly, this was so fucking bad that I can't see a recovery. I've always said that at some point, if what you're doing isn't working, then a replacement needs to be found. That replacement may be better, may be the same, may be fucking Rich Rod bad. But it has to me made because what you have isn't working.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:44 PM ^
Maybe Stephen Ross is still enamored enough with him to hire him in Miami. I don't care they just hired Flores.
September 21st, 2019 at 11:18 PM ^
Sara would be down with South Beach for sure.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:31 PM ^
Go Blue.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:31 PM ^
Bo wasn’t even a “Michigan Man” when he came to Michigan. He was a OSU guy.... We just need a sane “X’s and O’s” kind of coach that doesn’t get in the news for sleeping on kids couch’s and crap.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:32 PM ^
You coach with what you got. Then you make 'em better. Ain't happening now for whatever reason but they can do better if the fire and pride returns. Bo would'a made them walk home and its time Harbs to do the same.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:43 PM ^
2 things:
1) Bo is dead. He's been dead for 13 years, and hasn't coached in 30. We can't keep hanging on to 1985.
2) As for "you coach with what you got"...well, guess who brought these guys here. This is Jim Harbaugh's program now, through and through.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:47 PM ^
Living in the past is what many UM fans do. It's also a major problem for UM. This program is years behind the modern game.
September 21st, 2019 at 11:05 PM ^
"This program is years behind the modern game."
In what way? I mean, the facilities are top notch. The players have speed and talent. They recruit in the top 10 range. They have a huge, modern stadium. They throw vast sums of money at assistants and experienced, professional analysts for everything. In what way is the Michigan football program "years behind the modern game"?
And don't tell me on the field, either. That can be fixed in one year or less - with the right hire (be it a coordinator or HC).
September 21st, 2019 at 11:40 PM ^
I love that you tell me what I cannot counter with. Hilarious.
September 22nd, 2019 at 12:13 AM ^
You said "program" - which means everything about football operations (i.e.: the football program). On field stuff is a quick fix, it's not years! Do you have actually have any idea about what (or why) the "program is years behind"? Or are you just spouting off like a bunch of other angry drunks tonight? (Which is fine, but you've made some coherent posts tonight. Coherent! Get it? Unlike the offense!!!)
September 21st, 2019 at 11:14 PM ^
Wisky runs a very old school offense.
September 21st, 2019 at 11:31 PM ^
Hiring Jim was supposed to bring us to relevancy. He has so far, but it looks like regression at this point in time. Where our coach comes from doesn't matter to me as long as he wins. For some maybe that does matter, but it shouldn't.
September 21st, 2019 at 10:56 PM ^
Hanging on or not learning from the past? Bo's the last premium top flight coach we had and lessons can be learned, so don't crap on his legacy pal. And yeah any good coach gets the best he can out of his players. Saban at MSU and the Dolphins come to mind. Now he has good players.
September 21st, 2019 at 11:02 PM ^
No one is crapping on anybody's legacy here. But Bo's last season was 30 years ago. We can't keep hanging our hat on the past. If Harbaugh hadn't played at Michigan in the 1980's, there is 0.0% chance that he is the head coach today. And I've got a news flash for you: none of these kids today give the first flying fuck about Bo's legacy. The oldest one on this team was born roughly 7 years AFTER Bo hung up his whistle.
This is his 5th year. These are his players. He recruited them. This is his team, lock, stock and barrel. Is this the best he can get out of his players?
September 21st, 2019 at 10:33 PM ^
Probably not one because 1) we won't cheat or bend the rules and 2) the academic standards to be admitted to Michigan limit who we can recruit.