I’m looking at the COVID death stats and I realized something that shocked me. At 259 deaths, Michigan has more than all other B1G states (except NJ) combined (233)

Submitted by jbrandimore on March 31st, 2020 at 11:26 PM

I honestly would have expected Michigan to do reasonably well compared to other states.

We even have nearly twice the deaths of California who started getting cases before we did.

Any of our medical folks have reasons for this?

I'mTheStig

April 1st, 2020 at 12:40 AM ^

Italy got it from China... from all the Chinese partying in Italy for Lunar New Year.  They bought up a lot of the country.

Coupled with Italy's high smoking rate and elderly population, and China being dishonest about the outbreak, Italy was a perfect storm for COVID-19 to run wild.

stephenrjking

April 1st, 2020 at 2:28 AM ^

Detroit has the most cases, but Oakland county is really high as well. EDIT: per the Detroit news tracker, Oakland County was the highest location for some time before Detroit passed it. Still higher than Washtenaw or Macomb.

So, theory: The virus is imported from Italy by people traveling back and forth from Fiat, which is headquartered in Turin in northern Italy. That could, possibly, explain the significant Oakland County outbreak. Then Detroit takes over. Infected by people from Oakland County? Perhaps airport workers sharing space with sick Fiat-Chrysler travelers?

March 10, the day before the nation really starts taking things seriously, and the day the first infection is announced (an infection that probably occurred 10-14 days earlier) Michigan residents go to the polls in record numbers. Tight lines. Reusing voting equipment. Not thinking about catching coronavirus. But a number of people that have it go and vote in Oakland County and in Detroit.

And, boom, it’s widespread. Many catch it. And here we are.

Just a theory, and it doesn’t explain how Washington had a primary the same day without these effects, but it fits the timeline. 

1VaBlue1

April 1st, 2020 at 8:30 AM ^

Why various states, and the Fed Gov't, haven't already started  implementing vote by mail plans for the remaining primaries and the general election is a failure of 'leadership'.  I don't get how either Pelosi or McConnell can say, with a straight face, that it's too early to think about right now.

SHOW SOME FUCKING LEADERSHIP, SOMEBODY!!!!

Saludo a los v…

April 1st, 2020 at 1:30 PM ^

One party has tried to increase vote by mail, and one has not. You would think we would value voting in our democracy, but we do not. Far better to be cynical and actively try and prevent people from voting.

On primary day in Texas which was a little earlier than in Michigan, Texans had to hand over a driver's license or other acceptable form of ID in order to receive a ballot. A wonderful opportunity to spread the virus. Looking back on it now it was incredibly stupid what we did.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/26/text (senators were trying long before corona virus)

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/488334-democratic-senators-introd…

 

 

stephenrjking

April 1st, 2020 at 11:24 AM ^

This makes sense.

Brandon Finnigan, who runs Decision Desk (a quality, alternate elections reporting service, which I've done some election reporting for) is an elections junkie. He loves this stuff. But he is S A V A G I N G Wisconsin for holding an in-person election Tuesday, even though it will make him money. I hadn't paid much attention to Washington (late returns, Covid-19 was a whole day from being THE story, and I was reporting returns in Gogebic County) but this explains why there weren't any serious effects.

BoFan

April 1st, 2020 at 1:39 PM ^

Stephen King, This is not directed at you but in general. However, you may be able to help here.Everyone really needs to stop with the hyperbole and conjecture. It’s not adding value. And in some cases it’s no better than calling it a China virus. Let’s stick with facts and data. 

jmblue

April 1st, 2020 at 1:00 AM ^

I don’t know the situation in Illinois but in Michigan, there was no testing going on at all until March, which is why we didn’t have any confirmed cases until then.  

Michigan unfortunately is a prime example of why testing is so important.  When our state finally began testing, we blew up with cases.  Clearly there was very early community spread here, probably earlier than a lot of the country considering how many cases we have now, and how many are now dying.  The curve for deaths always lags behind the curve for confirmed cases.

M Go Cue

April 1st, 2020 at 6:39 AM ^

I really don’t put any weight whatsoever to anything that anyone says here about this topic.

Having said that, can someone please tell me where anyone said DTW is the only midwestern airport with nonstop to China?   The original comment at the top says DTW is a RARE midwestern airport with nonstop to China.  Then everyone runs with banging on the dude for saying “the only”, which was never said.  Maybe I missed it.

hunterjoe

April 1st, 2020 at 8:53 AM ^

Yeah, changing a word or 2 around to fit your narrative is very popular in this country.  I'm not sure if the cause is "reading is hard" for many of us or if they're doing it on purpose to make someone look bad and themselves smart.  Either way, I wish it'd stop.  It's an additional thing creating division in this country at a time when we all just need to get along.  

clown question

April 1st, 2020 at 11:08 AM ^

The argument given was MI has more cases than other Midwest states because they have an international airport.

I think it is quite fair to bring up all the other airports as a counterpoint to this argument. Yelling about "they didn't say only airport 0wnedzorz" is counterproductive.

 

M Go Cue

April 1st, 2020 at 12:38 PM ^

You quoted him as saying “only”, then came the replies saying how something that was never said was  completely wrong.

If you’re going to quote someone else, especially when complaining about misinformation, get the quote right.  That’s all I’m saying.  

BoFan

April 1st, 2020 at 3:14 AM ^

California has two airports each with many more flights to China. Seattle has more flights to China.  It has absolutely nothing to do with the airport. There is no data and no correlation ever calculated to suggest that growth rates locally, based on local transmission, have anything to do with airports. Current growth is all local transmission which happens because the virus can jump from one person to another when those persons are in close proximity to each other.  
 

There are different counter measures that can impact the R0 which is the transmission rate of the virus. The lower the R0 the lower the growth in case counts and ultimately deaths. If the R0 is greater than one, case counts will continue to grow.  if the R0 is between two and three, case counts will grow exponentially. This is the simplified explanation. The natural R0 for COVID-19 is between two and three.
 

Both the timing and level of when those counter measures were implemented in each metropolitan area relative to what the case count was when those measures were implemented is the single most determining factor for both the rate of exponential growth in a metro area as well as how many days to when the peak will be reached in terms of new cases per day.  Mortality rates as well  

By timing, that simply means when the counter measures were put in place.  Were they done when local case counts in the metro area reached 10, 100, or 1000?  Michigan, New York, New Jersey, and Florida, we’re all late relative to those case counts.  Other states for much earlier.

The level of countermeasures means how impactful are they on the R0. For example, eliminating gatherings of 500 people does not have a big impact. Voluntary social distancing it turns out does not have a big impact. Mandatory shelter in place has a big impact.

I use the term metropolitan area rather than state because it is the metropolitan area where the growth occurs. Some states like California have more than one major metropolitan area. California, in fact, has three or four. Michigan has one. Ohio has two. Some metropolitan areas locked down five days before the entire state did.  New York City and New York State issued a shelter in place at the same time.  But, because of the density of the population in the metropolitan area, that’s where an early strict shelter in place is going to have a much bigger impact on the states numbers. That doesn’t mean the rest of the state shouldn’t be sheltering in place. Further if the two major metropolitan areas in California, namely San Francisco and LA, issued shelters in place in case Counts were 250, That’s a better indicator then looking at the state level where it might look like the state shelter in place wasn’t issued until five days later and the total state counts might’ve been over a thousand. I don’t know the exact numbers. Most of the data however for growth rates and case counts is tracked at the state level.  So that can create some confusion about what is actually going on in each metro area. 
 

The U of Washington analysis looks at when various counter measures were put in place at a state level and calculates when the peak will be in terms of new cases and total cases. It also calculates what the total max hospital get bed count will be, what the total ICU bed count will be, and what the maximum ventilator requirements will be.  Obviously if the death rate is between 1 and 2%, the more cases you have in a state, the more deaths you will have.  But also the higher the ratio of ICU beds needed and ventilators needed compared to those available is going to increase that death rate percentage in a metropolitan area or state. The University of Washington study compares The peak number of ICU beds and ventilators needed to the capacity in each state.
 

It’s an excellent analysis, but even that analysis, because it’s at the state level, is not completely accurate (for all I know they may do it by county and just show state summaries). For example California’s major metropolitan areas issued a shelter in place about five days before the entire state did. So in that case it’s really the shelter in place for the two major metropolitan areas of San Francisco and Los Angeles that should be modeled and are going to have the biggest impact.  They mention only the State orders and levels of those orders in each state. 
 

The bottom line is that a number of states, including Michigan, we’re late to issue stringent shelter in place orders compared to how big the case counts were in their local jurisdictions.  There is plenty of testing at the time.  
 

To compare one state to another you really have to compare how stringent the orders were and their timing relative to current case counts in those locations, and ideally at the metro area, and not relative to each other by calendar day. 
 

And if you look at the University of Washington model, Which is his closest will get at the state level, it’s those same states that started late that are going to run out of hospital beds, I see you beds, and ventilators.

 

Much of the above has been discussed many times in various posts.  But this constant speculation about airports or patient zeros or hidden cases or differences in testing, which is an issue, ignore the facts about what determines the numbers we will be experiencing.  And that is leadership.  Or lack of.

Edit:  Here’s an example during the Spanish flu of how city level quarantines impacted the curve.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus

This post was done via voice to text on the phone so my apologies for any typos.  

901 P

April 1st, 2020 at 7:28 AM ^

You did this whole thing voice to text? Pretty impressive. No way I would be able to organize my thoughts so coherently while speaking. I suspect some messages I get from my students use voice to text and the result is a single long sentence with no punctuation. It’s like reading Joyce. 

BoFan

April 1st, 2020 at 2:24 PM ^

My post is that early and strict measures for shelter in place and closure of all non essential services is the only way to save lives and also have a less negative effect on the economy.  Leadership at the national and local levels are what determine the timing and effect.  We know the national response was slow.  Here are some local examples.  

The bay area issued a shelter in place and closure of all essential services on the 16 of March. San Francisco was a day or two earlier. LA was a day or two later. The state was on the 19th. 

Michigan was on the 24th

Pennsylvania was on the 23rd

Illinois was on the 21st 

Further, based on folks I know in Michigan, the Michigan order was not really followed well at the start   

Most important, every 2-3 days delay can mean a doubling of cases and deaths. We are seeing the results.  

As far as the Spanish Flu, that is a great example.  Some cities acted fast and saw the benefits and some did not.  Here is the study that shows that. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus

I'mTheStig

April 1st, 2020 at 8:12 PM ^

Sorry... I think you missed the snark in my post.

The previous moron, @Hotroute06, is claiming that when one calls it Chinese flu, that's somehow racist.

But throughout time, epidemics have been referred to the region in which it occurred, originates, etc.  Not racist.  It's geography.

 

BoFan

April 1st, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^

Once you have local transmission what comes in from europe and Asia isn’t significant.  During the first phase the focus should on imported cases, testing, and tracing.  But if that is not successful and local transmission breaks out you need to clamp down as soon as possible to reduce R0 < 1 because there are too many cases to trace.  Also with asymptotic transmission tracing is harder.  That doesn’t mean you don’t have to also screen and quarantine at the borders to eliminate new imports.  SE asia is seeing that now. 
 

I’ve linked a National Geographic Spanish flu study and the University of Washington studies elsewhere in this thread as data. 

BoFan

April 1st, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^

We are agreeing I believe.  We are both saying that the number of flights to China that a metropolitan area has are not highly correlated to the caseload and growth rates as well as the number of deaths. The only potential impact the number of flights to China has on a metropolitan area is going to be on the probability of how early you might get your first case or two. 

jbrandimore

March 31st, 2020 at 11:56 PM ^

Actually I checked my math and I forgot Illinois (99), so while we don’t have more deaths than all the other states combined, we almost have more deaths.

ScooterTooter

April 1st, 2020 at 9:49 AM ^

I thought this too, but according to their governor, they only have 1600 hospitalizations which to me seems to be the best metric for analyzing how hard a state is being hit. By comparison, New York has almost 11,000. 

This makes me think there has to be something to the weather aspect of this, because it doesn't seem possible that they would have so few cases. 

Also, Florida has only 870 hospitalizations. 

Michigan is not tracking hospitalizations as a state for some reason. 

umchicago

April 1st, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^

yep. i've been saying for weeks that hospitalizations, icu patients, and deaths are the most important metrics for analysis.  confirmed cases is wildly inaccurate.

this is why i try to watch cuomo's daily press conferences because he goes thru those numbers and you can see trends.  he also announces individuals that recover and get released from the hospital.