Hypothetical Question
So let's say Peters plays OK. Has his good moments and his bad moments. A typical redshirt freshman. What does Harbaugh do in a couple weeks if Speight is cleared to play? Does Wilton have a chance to get back into the mix? Harbaugh has always been a meritocracy person, so what if Peters hasn't ourperformed pre-injury Speight?
October 30th, 2017 at 12:17 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 1:12 PM ^
A great problem to have and exactly why he will be back. It's really hard to make it thru a season with only your starting QB. Heck, look at MD this year. I think they are on their 4th string QB. Going into next season with Peters, Speight and McCaffrey all ready to play is huge.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:18 PM ^
Speight should recover, no need to rush back at this point. He has a shot to compete for the starter job in 2018 and I want Wilton to stay here, as starter or back up.
but right now is a classic over reaction monday... we're still talking about potential. Speight lead a team to a 78-0 win over Rutgers last year. Let's get some more data. I am excited too and see where Peters can go, let's hope he gets there ASAP.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:26 PM ^
I'll translate that comment for you.
"IF Peters continues to work as hard as he has since he realized that JOK wasnt the answer and might actually play meaningful snaps in games that matter then yes, he's our starter next week. But, if he goes back to pouting for some reason like he did at the beginning of the season when JOK beat him out for #2 or dogs it in practice or acts all Hollywood then no, he'll sit right next to me again like he did to start the Rutgers game."
October 30th, 2017 at 12:55 PM ^
Sounds like it to me, too. Peters needs to keep progressing. He's a young kid, and it's not unexepected for him to have some growing pains, but he needs to grow out of them.
It means that Peters starts practice with the 1s, but things can change if he's not up to snuff.
October 30th, 2017 at 5:48 PM ^
I just find it amusing that we're speculating on who starts if Speight is back this season, when Harbaugh plays it coyly as to whether Peters even starts this week.
But yeah, Peters has to start this week. Totally different offense with him in there. Hopefully some good motivation for him.
October 31st, 2017 at 5:14 AM ^
Good translation.
Right on the money IMO.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^
I really like Speight, but he hasn't been the same QB since he was hurt last year. I don't know how much of that was physical and how much was mental, but adding a broken neck into the mix probably didn't help either issue.
If Peters is decent I think he plays the rest of the year and the bowl game. Once spring rolls around it will be the usual QB competition with all of the guys in the mix.
The more interesting question to me is does Peters transfer if Speight beats him out and is named the starter again? Keeping in mind the rumors about that very thing being a problem this season.
October 30th, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^
1) I never heard of these rumors
2) I saw Devin Gardner at DTW two weeks ago in security checkout, and just looked at him and thought, how are you still standing in one piece? Poor guy. Speight seems to be on that trajectory, seems as though he's taken some good shots. (albeit some dirty)
October 31st, 2017 at 9:14 AM ^
Just a lack of effort by Peters once it became clear he was the #3. Apparently he stepped up his game when Speight went down and he saw an opening. Also read (on here) that his dad may have gotten involved (no idea what that meant, phone call to a coach? transfer threat?), so if that's true I'm sure it didn't go over so well.
Poor Damn Devin Gardner Syndrome is one of the reasons I wasn't in a hurry to have Peters start right away. But the line seems to be improving a little, so maybe he'll be ok?
October 31st, 2017 at 5:13 AM ^
Does Peters transfer if "Speight beats him out"? is like asking---
Does the sun start rising in the West if the "Sun does not rise in the East any more?"
It's just not going to happen, hypothetically or otherwise.
October 31st, 2017 at 9:15 AM ^
It's entirely possible that he does it again.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
Michigan was hurt by not taking two quarterbacks in Peters' class. I think everything UMBig11 said about him revolves around an attitude/entitlement issue, which I actually think would have been ironed out with another QB in his class.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:26 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 1:04 PM ^
I get that. But when you take 2 QBs, it keeps the competition going more. Because there's only one QB on the field at a time, if you take two in a class, they're going to constantly be competing against each other. It's very possible Peters didn't take McCafferey as a threat because he was a true freshman. If there was another QB that could seriously threaten Peters spot in the program, I don't think he would have sulked and quit in the way that he allegedly did.
October 31st, 2017 at 3:19 AM ^
I haven't heard about any of those stories about Peters sulking or threatening to transfer outside of internet boards. Meanwhile, much more reliable sources (who use their real name) have stated outright that all of the rumors and innuendo were completely false.
Gee - I wonder which one I should believe?
October 30th, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 12:36 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 5:16 PM ^
are hypothetical at this point.
October 30th, 2017 at 1:25 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
Was there not a QB battle in the offseason where Speight finished 1st and Peters 3rd? Mercifully, Peters looked good against Rutgers, but do we really think that put the nail in Wilton's coffin? Everyone was making these same declaration about JOK post-Purdue
October 30th, 2017 at 12:29 PM ^
If Speight is 100% healthy and performing better than Peters in practice when the OSU game rolls aorund, Speight better play. I wouldn't be able to handle our fanbase after another rivalry loss. 2016 Speight gives us the best chance IMO. He would need to return to that form though.
October 30th, 2017 at 1:01 PM ^
equal to pre IA 2016 if Peters maintains the level of play he did vs Rugers. Sadly, Rutgers is in the discussion as our best win of the year so far, but if such actually is the case, then Peters played even better than we thought. I have felt, with the possible exception of the PSU game, that our qbs - including Wilton - had performed far below what is necessary to win in this league, and by win I don't mean vs. teams where we out talent them at every position and can just hand the ball off. Peters, in his limited role is the only qb I've seen make routine throws and he seemed to do so without much difficulty.
Something more than an injury happened to Wilton vs. IA last year. He never regained the form he had prior to that game where he was playing at a very, very high level with his major problem being missing on the fly pattern as ofen as he hit it. He was performing at an extremely high level in all other areas. Pre-IA 2016 is the reason we were rated as high as we were, but he never played at that level this season.
I agree with you mgobaran that a 2016 Speight gives us our best chance, but since that IA game he has been reluctant to throw at the right time and has spent time in the pocket he doesn't need to. Peters, regardless of how we do going forward, might have infused a reminder of what minimum qb play at UM must be, and if such is the case, then damnit, thanks BP.
October 31st, 2017 at 8:44 AM ^
I'm with Brian's stance that Speight carried us as far as anyone could against Ohio St. and Florida St. Our OL was a mess against those teams, our run game was non-extant and Harbaugh turtled his playcalling a bit in the OSU game. Speight was a big reason we lost the OSU game as well, but he was the ONLY reason we were in the Florida State game at the end.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:30 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 3:48 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 12:36 PM ^
It comes down to how "ready" he actually is to see the field. I think Speight is probably still the best QB right now on the roster, but he'll be coming back from a pretty major back injury and hasn't probably thrown a football for over a month now. Last I saw, he'd be cleared right around the OSU game, and that seems like a big ask for a guy to step back into the fire. My guess is that he is used as the backup in the very likely event Peters has some trouble against OSU, then you have a guy who you can bring in if necessary to calm things down.
On the other hand, if Peters struggles against Wisconsin and/or gets hurt, Speight will get the nod over O'Korn is my guess.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:36 PM ^
Given the nature of Speight's injury, I think it's unlikely we'll see him this season. Next season? I wouldn't rule it out entirely.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:38 PM ^
for the rest of the year. He will have some ups and downs and probably make some very bad mistakes. Speight and O'Korn have both had their chances and both sucked. I've been saying for a couple of weeks you need to try to win every game this year, but the future is bright and it gets brighter if you can give a players like Peters as much experience as possible. He will learn from his mistakes and this program will be better for it come next year.
Speight is not the future and I hope the kid makes a full recovery and gets his diploma from UM. If he wants to play next year he needs to do it at another school. I would bring him back next year, but with the understanding he would be #3 on the depth chart and hope he would want to help the young QB's. But for now the job is Peters and it should be his as long as he's healthy.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:40 PM ^
All this Peters optimism brings back memories of the John O'Korn optimism after coming in for Wilton against Purdue; optimism that proved premature.
All we know right now is that Brandon Peters handled the Michigan offense better than JOK against the worst team in the Big 10. Seems premature to be benching Speight indefinitely based on that one shaky data point.
Odds are good that Peters is taking us home for the remainder of this season and if he can lead Michigan to running the table with some impressive wins against Wisconsin and OSU, he'll clearly set himself up as the presumtive starter for 2018.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:46 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 1:25 PM ^
Maybe they aren't the worst, but we can all agree that Rutgers is a bottom tier Big 10 team, no?
October 30th, 2017 at 1:19 PM ^
with Peters than O’Korn.
1) Peters has never had a 2016 IU game
2) Peters was never benched at Houston and forced to transfer for PT
3) Peters was hand-picked as a highly-touted recruit by Harbaugh
4) All the insider rumbling seems to suggest that at least some significant part of the reason Peters wasn’t playing earlier was due to attitude/demeanor/etc. and not ability, and this has subsequently either resolved or been deemed no longer as important as horrible QB play from O’Korn
October 30th, 2017 at 1:22 PM ^
1) Peters has never had a 2016 IU gameYet (and hopefully never)
2) Peters was never benched at Houston and forced to transfer for PTPoint conceded I guess, although this argument is a bit of a strawman. Peters is a redshirt freshman and benching and transferring are possibilities; slim possibilities for certain.
3) Peters was hand-picked as a highly-touted recruit by HarbaughNo argument. Your strongest point.
4) All the insider rumbling seems to suggest that at least some significant part of the reason Peters wasn’t playing earlier was due to attitude/demeanor/etc. and not ability, and this has subsequently either resolved or been deemed no longer as important as horrible QB play from O’KornMaybe deemed not as important as horrible QB play from JOK, but perhaps not enough to bench a future healthy Wilton Speight? I don't want to come off as anti-Brandon Peters, because I think he clearly represents the future, but I think it's early to be burying Speight on the depth chart. What are we all going to be saying if Peters comes out and struggles against Minnesota on Saturday night?
October 30th, 2017 at 1:45 PM ^
Struggles could mean a couple TDs and a couple INTs or fumbles (or fumbled hand-offs, which almost happened against Rutgers).
Struggles could mean consistently moving the ball between the 20s but then failing in the redzone.
Struggles could mean throwing for 50 yards with 0 TDs and an INT.
If it's either of the first two, then it's likely youth and/or systematic issues with the offense. And it would be on par with Speight's performance, so no reason to make a change. It's not like Speight has done anything on the field this season, with this offense, to merit retaking the starting job if that is what struggles means.
If it's the last one, then it's doom and I don't care anymore.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:48 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 12:42 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 12:45 PM ^
This.
If he wins the next 2 weeks and is effectively 3-0, you can't make another QB switch. Play the hot hand and play the QB that manages the game the best to give the team the greatest opportunity to win. The offense can definitely score points against Minnesota and Maryland even with a "dumbed down" playbook for Peters. Our offense is actually better IMO when we simplify things.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:42 PM ^
Have to think it's Peters job for the rest of the year unless he completely implodes, a la John O'Korn vs MSU (albeit play calling was "meh" in a torrential downpour).
Why risk Speight reinjuring his vertebrae on a team that already has a couple losses?
The reason question, for me at least, is what happens in the off season/next spring if Speight sticks here. Is he going to beat Peters (again) in training camp? I would hope that if Peters starts the rest of the season and improves as the year goes on, he would start week 1 next year as well.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:44 PM ^
If Speight heals 100% he will come back and compete for the starting job with Peters and McCaffrey next year. Who wins that compeition is up to the coaches.
Speight is 12-3 as a starter at UM, I won't give him credit for the 2017 Purdue game, although he probably could take credit for 2015 Minnesota win and 2015 OSU loss since he had significant playing time due to Rudock injuries.
Without Speight as a starter, but including 2017 Purdue, Michigan is 14-5 under Harbaugh.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:47 PM ^
It's going to be a fascinating competition. While most would think Speight would have the advantage if 100% healthy, I actually give a slight advantage to Peters, if he in fact starts the rest of this season.
We all agree Peters has more natural talent than JOK or Speight, but confidence and command of offense were his weaknesses. If he gets the last 4 starts this year, plus the past win vs Rutgers, he will be much more confident next off season.
October 30th, 2017 at 3:38 PM ^
he probably could take credit for 2015 Minnesota win and 2015 OSU loss since he had significant playing time due to Rudock injuries.2015 OSU was a lost cause by the time he came in. You could give him some credit for Minnesota though, as we were behind when he came in. Of course the D did its thing, too.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:46 PM ^
I obviously want Michigan to go with the best option to win games. O'Korn vs Peters was special circumstances because O'Korn could not conceivably be worse and then you might as well go with the guy with a future in the program next year and after.
I would feel slightly bad for Speight because it's not his fault the offensive line blocked terribly early in the year. We have seen Speight be very good when not hurt or had some form of protection/trust in his O line.
I trust in Harbaugh but I think you stick with Peters if he keeps playing well.
October 30th, 2017 at 12:50 PM ^
Peters needs to demonstrate that he can read signals coming in from the sideline. He was getting verbal instructions on every play against Rutgers. It takes a lot of time to do that. That means that you don't have time to run motions, which are essential elements to the Harbaugh offense. It also hampers you in situations where clock management is needed. If Speight was back to the level that he was playing against Florida, etc... that element might be enough to put him above Peters in the rotation.
I'd hesitate to put Speight in due to injury concerns. Three broken vertebrae are a big deal. But he makes the offense much more dynamic when he is performing at a competent level. I attribute a lot of his accuracy and decision making issues early this season to poor line play. If the line could offer him the level of protection it was giving to Peters against Rutgers, he'd be killing it.
October 30th, 2017 at 7:57 PM ^
October 30th, 2017 at 8:18 PM ^
Yes, we have a lot more data points to cherry-pick from (good and especially bad) regarding O'Korn and Speight. And I doubt that Peter would have turned either of the 2 losses into wins; and with a young QB, you can't necessarily take all those wins for granted.
I don't know if O'Korn was seeing ghosts, or what he was seeing- I have been wondering that.
Is it possible he was sometimes dropping his eyes to see the pass rush, and therefore not able to see downfield?
Was his background as a spread QB who was not accustomed to reading safeties and pass coverages on dropping back, and did that give him bad habits which are tough to break?
Did the criticism for the interceptions make him gun shy?
Did poor pass prptection make him too nervoucs?
Did the pass drops, and inability of receivers to get off and get separation quickly make him more cautious?
I don't know. Coaches have a much better idea.
Maybe this chance to re-evaluate himself over the next few weeks will give him a chance to improve in practice. Ditto for Wilton Speight, if he is healthy enought to play. It wouldn't surprise me if the offense is working on specific packages for each QB that is physically available, and that they will be used.
October 30th, 2017 at 9:05 PM ^
Those damn pick sixes. Those were ugly.
I so expected to see a much improved Speight after the surgery and a chance to learn and grow during the offseason. That was a deflating way to start the season, even if we did go on to dominate all aspects of that game.
I agree that Peters shouldn't be expected to do more than be a game manager. But I'd really like to see him reading the plays as they are called on the sideline. That seems like a minimum expectation for the next couple of weeks.