"Hours Long" UM/BIG Meeting Yesterday (Insider Updates)
Pretty fresh takes and I like to respect the 24 hour rule of pay sites by not posting too much detail. From Chris Balas and little tidbits from others. I think you can find most of the below if you dig:
- UM and BIG met "for hours" yesterday
- The BIG is not backing down.
- UM was going to fight a two game suspension...but the BIG wants blood...indefinite suspension
- UM does believe they would win in court and without giving too much detail, UM seems loaded for bear...this is not your grandpas UM
- Not just stopping with an injunction if it comes to that...they will be aggressive using all legal means necessary.
- There is full support for JMFH
- They "may" consider a 2 game suspension if Harbaugh was 100% going to be there for OSU and 2 games would appease the mob...but even then...they really were leaning towards fighting that.
Basically...UM is "going to war" at this point (forgive the war reference just used for effect).
November 6th, 2023 at 7:47 AM ^
Considering this is a direct contradiction of the post saying that the B1G would defer to the NCAA, it sounds like both sides are playing a game of chicken. Whoever blinks or gives ground first, loses.
In any case, glad to see Ono and Co. holding their ground. Hope the rest of the conference knows that if they want blood, Michigan’s will get drawn, but so will their’s when this goes to discovery.
EVERYBODY’S dirty laundry is about to get aired out. Wonder how our new conference affiliates, in particular USC and Oregon, are going to feel about this.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:51 AM ^
I think WSJ article is just kinda garbage. It says both things (so it contradicts itself basically) and it's from yesterday morning. And let's not forget their recent history on this story.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:54 AM ^
That was written before the meeting and honestly it seems like nobody knows where they even came to that conclusion. I'm just the messenger so take of it what you want but this one seems to have full agreement from all the insiders. You never know that.
What I am gathering is UM was hoping Tony was going to come in cooler yesterday but that did not happen at all.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:06 AM ^
The thing is, the BIG is essentially giving UM a false choice. Michigan cannot do anything to “appease the mob,” because it does nothing about the NCAA investigation. Agreeing to a suspension is tantamount to an admission of guilt, where no such proof (at least publicly) exists.
So the “choice” of a two game suspension for JMFH is essentially “admit to something there is no proof you did so we can suspend you and then you can be sanctioned again later by a different body currently investigating.”
Uhh….. no?
November 6th, 2023 at 8:34 AM ^
This exactly. They're asking for an admission of guilt when, by all word, the only named guilty party acted alone.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with all this BS.
I admit that none of us know everything but unless they have a text message from Jim to Stalions saying "thanks for the stolen signs, please get more" they're not following any level of due process. It seems like such a clear case of letting The NCAA handle it and especially so since I'm beyond sure they will hammer Jim anyway. By their own rules, the act of a staffer can be assumed to be known by the head coach and this means they can treat them one in the same. In their eyes, it was Jim in the CMU sideline. It was Jim buying tickets. Etc. Get used to that now and it's why on day one I disagreed with Brian's take of "nothing comes of this". Even he seems to understand now how it'll likely go down and even then I think he's still underselling how bad they are going to hammer Jim/Michigan.
So it seems like such a gimme for the conference commissioner to tell the rest of the conference to do whatever they feel they need to do in order to mitigate their own harm in the immediate (eyeroll) and they'll talk again when The NCAA is finished. At that point they can add their own punishment if they deem it fit. Whatever.
To have anything less than Jim on record knowing about it all and demand any immediate suspension right now seems insane. It's mob justice.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:44 AM ^
Besides, we already did that with cheeseburger-gate and what did that get us? That was a bogus, minor infraction and then based on knowing what was in Jim's mind (his recollection) to claim that he lied.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:47 AM ^
So our season hopes rest on getting a good draw for the injunction judge.
cool
November 6th, 2023 at 8:08 AM ^
I mean if they file in Michigan state court, you basically got a 50% chance the judge is a UM fan/alum.
And a 50% chance he or she is Sparty.
(Federal court, which I presume is where it will be but depends who the named parties are and where they live for diversity purposes, is more of a mixed bench.)
(Yes, lawyer here, just not from MI.)
November 6th, 2023 at 8:10 AM ^
I believe the BIG is an Illinois entity. Think it would be a federal suit.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:43 AM ^
The B1G does business in the state of Michigan and as such I believe that state court would be an option. I'm too lazy to see if they're registered with LARA.
See, e.g., the PAC-12 dissolution lawsuit which is in the Washington state courts.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:18 AM ^
Edit: see FB Dive's post below.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:43 AM ^
Michigan will be the party to file, so they can choose whether to file in state or federal court. They just have to file somewhere where the court has personal jurisdiction over the Big Ten. If Michigan chooses state court, the Big Ten could then try to remove it to federal court — probably successfully, as I believe the requirements for diversity jurisdiction would be met.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^
Right, which is why I presume M will just go straight to U.S. District Court. If they file in state court then the Big Ten could play games with the removal timing. For instance, they could order JH suspended for Saturday's game and remove the case on Friday afternoon--in which case M might have trouble getting the federal judge to rule on a TRO before Saturday's kickoff.
You'd like to think the Big Ten wouldn't engage in these kinds of tactics but considering this is all over a picayune violation of obscure NCAA rules affording no substantial competitive advantage to begin with, that can hardly be assumed.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^
I think they'll need to go to U.S. District Court because of the timing issues. Otherwise, what are the percentages in Washtenaw County Circuit Court?
November 6th, 2023 at 8:09 AM ^
The season does not rest on that. We have very capable assistant coaches and incredible on field leadership.
In all likelihood, Harbaugh’s future at Michigan could depend on a good judge draw, yes.
However, despite these people being insiders, I am still really skeptical of this happening. Huge can of worms for the BIG. Taking this step would be incredibly stupid and I will believe it when I see it.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:50 AM ^
Don't ever bet against stupid happening.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:55 AM ^
I agree with the thought that the B1G taking any action now would be incredibly stupid. I don't know how large Pettiti's ego is, but I have to believe there are cooler heads in the B1G office that will prevail and prevent Tony from stepping on this land mine.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:00 AM ^
Tony is the boss - any “cooler” heads will have to be the university presidents after they they have been advised by legal counsel. I’m quite certain that the B1G commissioner has been similarly advised but he’s not taking the rational path here. Even the best lawyer can’t fix stupid.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:48 AM ^
So much for getting any work done today.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
Today? I'm now into week two.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:49 AM ^
I don't know, man. I can't believe the conference is this stupid. Why in thee hell would you attempt to assassinate one of your two biggest cash cows? Without a prominent Michigan you're OSU and a bunch of garbage. Frankly I think the TV networks alone could shut this down in about 30 seconds. Is the conference leadership REALLY that dumb? I just can't wrap my brain around what they could possibly be thinking.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:55 AM ^
Oh trust me I agree with the sentiment. I think people also have to remember Tony P works for these schools. He is literally their b***hand for whatever reason the coaches and AD's are out for Harbaugh big time.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:58 AM ^
... and, again, for some crazy reason they don't seem to care about the gorilla (OSU) that's been smacking them around for years (and probably being the biggest cheater in the process).
November 6th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
What is crazy is that if there is really evidence of our practices being recorded and shared, and we informed the conference of that fact, then taking unprecedented action now without investigation seems like very targeted enforcement. If that is the case, then 1) seriously look to leave the conference; and 2) go scorched earth and share all of the dirt on everybody.
I would also love for someone up high to mention the B1G collaborating with those who may have committed criminal acts that were coordinated across state lines, and just throw out the term RICO.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:06 AM ^
You make good points. However the AD's in this conference who went to the B10 Commissioner clearly are this stupid asking for punishment w/o investigation. That is what is most sickening and alarming to me. Agree with those who think in big picture Michigan has to fight this hard until a full and fair investigation is completed.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:28 AM ^
Other ADs: “Warde, get off the call. We want to talk to Tony alone.”
Warde: “You got it fellas! We’re still friends, right?”
Other ADs: “Just get the fuck off the call, Warde.”
Warde: “Righteo!”
November 6th, 2023 at 8:14 AM ^
Unfortunately, Pettiti’s position makes perfect sense from his perspective. The “scandal” is bullshit but he either doesn’t understand that or doesn’t care. He has no loyalty or partisanship to Michigan. Now he has Ohio State, MSU, and between 0-11 other Big Ten coaches urging him to suspend JH. If he does it, he pisses off M. If he doesn’t, he pisses off the other schools. If he does it and Michigan sues to stop him, he makes it some judge’s problem. He undoubtedly believes (correctly) that M is not going to leave the conference over this, so why back down? Even if he “loses” in court, he doesn’t care—and he still shows the rest of the conference that he tried to punish JH.
Not to mention all the added drama probably delights him as a TV guy.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:47 AM ^
In an environment where Texas, OU, and USC blew up two conferences by realigning when no one thought they ever would it is extremely shortsighted to go Salted Earth with Michigan. The media contract is only for 6 more years and who knows where the TV value will be at that point. Will Fox give another Billion+ dollars to a conference with NW, Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland and UCLA? Idk, but I kinda doubt it given where linear television will be in 6 years.
Should Michigan get punished? Yes. But to go in a direction that is completely unprecedented and counter to the rules of the conference could piss Michigan people off enough to chase the bag with the SEC. Why should Michigan prop up these consistently garbage teams with their media revenue power if the conference just caves to the lynch mob when its against Michigan? And its not even the first time this has happened (2016 OSU ref job, MSU getting two home games in a row, 1973 Rose Bowl, etc).
And you know the minute Michigan goes to the SEC OSU will follow. They spiritually are an SEC team anyways.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:48 AM ^
He will care when this all crumbles before him. He is the one in charge. When all the other presidents, AD’s, and coaches get called into court, and other headaches are brought to light, it will be directly related to his call on this. He will ultimately be fired and left walking away with his tail between his legs. He will care when it’s all said and done, millions of dollars wasted in court, and him being jobless.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:39 AM ^
And nimrod pettiti has been a tv exec much of his career
November 6th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
Thats my thought too. The TV contract cash delivered to this league runs through Michigan, OSU, and perhaps Penn State. Why are the other 10-11 teams pushing for punishment without an investigation? Do they so take the league's stability for granted that they think they can do that and continue to make money of our backs? I mean maybe they can, but if Michigan leaves, OSU and Penn State are gone the same week and thats it. Bye bye big TV money for everyone else.
I don't get the risk reward for them. Just let the investigation happen and punishments will be dealt.
November 6th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
On the other hand if youre PSU you're absolutely pulling for Michigan to leave so you can finally stop being 3rd place every year.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
Yeah, now they'll be fifth place behind OSU, USC, Washington, and Oregon.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:46 PM ^
The NFL did it to the Patriots with deflategate. It was proven categorically that no wrongdoing took place, but the other teams just wanted to take the Pats down, so they did. This is honestly no different, except that the B1G would have to violate its own rules in order to do so, and is opening itself to possibly several lawsuits it is all but guaranteed to lose.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:51 AM ^
They "may" consider a 2 game suspension
Dislike.
Sounds like that's probably not really going to be what UM agrees to anyway.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:56 AM ^
It sounds to me like if UM felt that would totally appease everyone and just be the total punishment for essentially not knowing what CS was doing they'd consider it. It also sounds like they know Tony P and the crew what a lot more than that...2 games would be just a tease...they want much more.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:11 AM ^
It can’t appease everyone. NCAA still investigating. It’s a false choice. No way they should agree to it.
November 6th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
Absolutely. There is no appeasing this mob. How do you compromise with a group when their ultimate goal is your head on a platter? They will keep pushing for more, and you can bet they will try to keep this alive long after the "settlement" is reached. They will lobby the NCAA for maximum punishment, and will continue to send their PIs after us. Why not make it formal and put the B1G and its members under the microscope too?
November 6th, 2023 at 11:31 AM ^
Yeah, that's what I don't get . . . the Big Ten ADs will now have to eat what they cook. They will set a witch hunt mob rule precedent that they now have to live under.
"It's OK, the mob would never come for me" has worked out well in history approximately . . . never.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:51 AM ^
Michigan must stick to their principles here - and don't agree to ANY suspension until charges have been received and an NCAA or Big Ten investigation has been completed. The Big Ten wants to play hardball, so do we.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:51 AM ^
So, what exactly are they going after him for specifically? Spare the fact that we know CS was at the games... Jim has denied knowledge so at this point that is contested. Lack of institutional control?
November 6th, 2023 at 7:56 AM ^
I have it on good authority that they're going after Jim for "beating the shit out of them for 3 years running"
November 6th, 2023 at 8:39 AM ^
I think Maurice Clarett is spot on. They’re after Harbaugh because he suggested revenue should be shared with players. They will shank him for threatening their profits.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:57 AM ^
I think it boils down to this: does the big ten think the ncaa has enough to hit him with serious sanctions, even in the most likely outcome that JH was not aware of it going on? For overseeing the program where this rogue stuff was going on. If the big ten is hedging that YES the ncaa is going to hammer Jim anyway even if he didn’t know, they may as well hit him now too. Obviously the right thing to do is wait for the investigation instead of guessing that Jim will be penalized
November 6th, 2023 at 10:13 AM ^
I see the flipside of this too -- not saying you're wrong -- but my hunch is that this rush to condemn and punish before a notice of allegations has even been served is because the B1G and its schools suspect the NCAA investigation will turn up nothing more than petty Level 2 infractions and the punishment they dole out will be modest. They have to act now to take advantage of the irrational media frenzy. It's a common scam/social engineering tactic, and it's incredibly alarming that a contrived PR smear campaign could have so much sway over an official governing institution.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:01 AM ^
Do we know that CS was at games?
November 6th, 2023 at 8:04 AM ^
Brian seemed to have a source that the alleged CMU photo was indeed CS, but other than that it has not been proven beyond reasonable doubt. Granted, the NCAA is not a court of law, so that standard doesn't apply, but at the same time, it would be very bad to set a precedent where a program could get in trouble over what amounts "maybe/probably" visual identification of a person.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:16 AM ^
I’ve said it before, but I think this all just feels like the George Brett pine tar game. A lot of fussing about something that may or may not technically be against the rules, but ultimately had nothing to do with why Brett hit that home run. Pretty sure this was even the popular origin of the “spirit of the rules” expression.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:17 AM ^
There are rumblings on X that Stalions was at the CMU game as a code breaker at the request of CMU (read - moonlighting, hired by CMU), hence why they haven't confirmed or denied who the person in the picture is. What's unclear is how much of the knowledge he gained was then used when Michigan played Staee (not that we needed any of it).
November 6th, 2023 at 8:25 AM ^
That’s a theory Seth came up with on one of the podcasts. It seems logical but has there been any actual evidence to support it?