High-altitude OT: Crowded climbing conditions on Everest are lunacy
I was incredibly fortunate to have grown up in a family that spent every summer of my childhood in Colorado, and I was hiking with my dad from the time I was a little kid. I did my first 14er at 7 or 8, and got to the summit of Mt. Elbert (second highest in the lower 48 after Whitney) at 9. Since then I've gotten to the top of 15 of the 14ers in CO, almost all of them pretty easy walkups, the only exception being Longs Peak. I'm a hiker, not a real climber—there a good number of CO 14ers I'll never attempt even if I had the opportunity because of the technical aspects of getting up to those summits.
Even though he was just a hiker himself, my dad was a huge fan of advanced mountaineering and we all avidly followed the exploits of those few hardy souls who summited Everest back in the '50s and early '60s. I've never had any real desire to spend any time up in the Death Zone myself—I like to get up to altitude and feel the sun and wind on my face and enjoy the alpine environment without a thousand layers of gear and oxygen tanks, or the constant real danger of dying there.
But even if I was in physical shape and had the $$ to undertake the trip, I would never consider putting myself in these insane climbing conditions.
I'm curious if anybody in the MGoBlogosphere has already attempted Everest or has plans to do so.
A good friend of my father tried three times to summit Everest, including getting to within 100 meters of the peak on his third attempt. If he had succeeded he would have become the oldest person ever to summit. Why stop just short of your lifelong goal? In mountain climbing, reaching the peak is optional, getting back down is not.
Plenty of those who have died on Everest would have lived if they had turned back at critical junctures of the climb, whether it be due to weather, oxygen, or the physiological stress of being in the Death Zone.
Here's an uncropped version of the photo I put in the OP:
That’s just gross climbing. I’d much rather just go the one of the other 8000 meter peaks and get a much more rewarding experience.
Climbing a 14er in the Front Range in Colorado on a nice August weekend guarantees that you'll have plenty of company on the hike, but I've never seen it remotely like this. And I've never been forced to wait for more than a few minutes because people on the trail in front of me are too slow.
Not to mention that you're not going to die on the slopes of Grays Peak simply because you're going a bit slower than you'd like because of other hikers.
but I've never seen it remotely like this.
Have you seen Bierstadt lately? It's a literal conga line of tourists in jeans and flip flops all the way to the top these days. Not to mention they seem to think it's okay to summit after noon.
Parts of Barr Trail on Pikes Peak (I haven't been on that trail in 2 years now) are like this now too... completely unusable to locals.
Granted it's not 8,000 m but the density is certainly there.
"Have you seen Bierstadt lately?"
I did Bierstadt in the summer of 2016, but I got on the trail early enough that I passed a line of flip-flop-shod folks on the way down. It wasn't as bad as in the Everest pic, though.
I also did Grays that summer and there were plenty of people on it, but nothing resembling the line on Bierstadt. Nobody in flip-flops that I recall either, but the hike from the Stevens Gulch parking lot/trailhead just to the base of Grays is pretty long and would discourage them, I think.
One of the contributing factors to the crowds on Bierstadt is that the parking lot isn't that far from the base of the mountain, and a good part of the initial hike is across the willows which is on relatively flat terrain.
It's insane. Nepal has to do something (the suggestion above to jack up the price seems reasonable) before that many people get up there.
Thing is, nobody wants to spend that kind of money, climb that high, spend that much time acclimatizing... and then turn back because there's a traffic jam. It's Everest. It has a cachet that everyone understands. Notice that nobody is complaining that the OP doesn't explain what the deal is with climbing Mount Everest, because we all know.
The appeal is remote to us, but that's because most of us could never imagine climbing it. So it's easy for us to say, "turn back, don't die." But these people have planned for years and actually spent weeks getting to that point, for a lifetime moment. Turning back is almost unfathomable, and with the conditions that affect physical ability and often judgment, by the time things have become so hazardous that turning back becomes the clear right choice, it is too late.
A couple of thoughts...
Nepal has to do something
China too... they let 60K in a year for access from their side.
the suggestion above to jack up the price seems reasonable
That's a major contributor already to the current state of the mountain... it's become a playground for only the wealthy -- no let's make Everest even more exclusive?
It's always going to be something limited to only those who can afford the time (weeks), help (hiring the sherpas, etc), travel (Nepal!), equipment, and so on. A barrier for entry is good.
Supposedly they have worked on "traffic management" solutions, but at some point they will run out of options as people continue to pile in. The more people, the more pressure there is for people to make bad choices.
Lottery folks. Works well for so many things.
Ego. It's all ego. It's not Nepal's responsibility to do something about wealthy people who can't handle not being able to brag about climbing Everest. If they want to risk their lives, so be it. But I'm not shedding one single tear for them.
Make it like Elk hunting in Michigan. Have a lottery and charge a bunch. That many people seems dangerous.
Seven people died this week there. The sad thing is it becomes something only for the wealthy. I am completely ok with people living there lives the way they want if they are not hurting others.
With all due respect to legitimate mountain climbers everywhere, it's got to be pretty deflating to run into a human traffic jam at the summit of Everest. I wonder how many were forced to turn around unfulfilled, and how many others should have turned around unfulfilled but ignored the elevated risk and pressed onward.
Geez
I read "Into Thin Air" several years ago. It's a great book and actually got me more interested in climbing/hiking...but I would never mess with Mt. Everest. The reward isn't worth the risk.
I read the print version of it first, but the audiobook version of "Into Thin Air" read by Krakauer himself is absolutely riveting.
I had to login to upvote you. Work has me traveling a lot lately and audiobooks have become my new addiction. “Into Thin Air” was amazing to listen to. I felt like I was on the mountain with them. It led to a brief obsession of watching every documentary and movie about the tragedy. I think I will pull it out and listen to it again. Thanks for mentioning it.
We had a guy who did Everest expeditions present to my class at Ross, I love hiking and climbing up Mountains and have done some pretty fun stuff and EVERYTHING about his presentation made climbing Everest sound absolutely miserable. I'll stay at "Comparitively" Lower altitudes and live a life free of hacking coughs that cause rib separations, thank you.
Looks like the line to the Big House ladies room at halftime, amirite?
I heard it's incredibly littered with both trash and human bodies. It's unfortunate that we are putting our petty desires before the health of the ecosystem.
Yep. This planet is fucked. It’s gonna look like the movie Interstellar sooner than these greedy polluters realize.
Must be CGI, like Nikhai Hill-Green's commit video.
"More and more people are asking: Is this form of fully-catered climbing—enabled by a small army of Sherpas and other mountain workers who are exposed to enormous risk—really climbing at all?"
It's because it's not. Still doesn't mean it's not difficult or that work doesn't have to be put in.
I watched Everest: Beyond the Limit on Amazon Prime a year ago and recommend it to anyone who's vaguely interested in Everest. The process of getting up Everest is fascinating, and no matter how much help you get, it's quite a feat. The first few episodes were really inspiring. The last few made it clear what a terrible idea it is (though that was not at all the point of the show).
That picture looks like the CRISP line from Winter semester, 1994.
Too soon.
And that line to the summit is how you end up taking Spanish class at 8 in the morning on Fridays. I too failed for lack of oxygen.
remember when getting up at 7:30 for a 8AM class was torture. Ah, I long for those days
Growing up my family lived in China for a few years and we decided to make a week-long trip to the Tibet/Nepal area. We came to an overlook spot that was maybe 21 to 23 thousand feet up, and I remember trying to walk up a hill and being out of breath after 4 steps. It was also by far the coldest I've ever been in my life. While I like climbing and hiking and being outdoors, that experience and just seeing Everest is more than enough for me, especially if there are crowds of people making the already treacherous summit way more difficult than it needs to be.
My thoughts...
I’m also (or was prior to having kids) an avid hiker. Done a handful of 14ks in CO. Done the Volcanoes in PNW — Adams, St. Helens, Rainier (most technical for me), Baker. My last summit attempt was on Denali, but had to turn back because of weather and some knee issues... the joy of age. I also did south base camp at Everest with no intention of going further about 13 years ago.
With that background, I think it’s kinda lame to trash people who try to climb Everest even with all the conveniences of modern technology and the help of local sherpas. It is still an incredibly challenging endeavor no matter how much help you get. If people want to brag about it, let them. They’ve earned it, and while they are no Edmund Hillary or Tenzing Norgay, they’ve accomplished something monumental in my eyes.
Also, I just saw the movie Free Solo on an airplane and highly recommend it for those with any interest in climbing.
Free Solo was great, although it gave me some vertigo with those camera shots.
Watch “Free Solo”
Also if you want some other insane marathons movies, here's a couple on the Barkley Marathon.
I think I actually found out about them through a board post
The Barkley Marathons: The Race That Eats Its Young - Amazon Prime
https://www.amazon.com/Barkley-Marathons-Race-That-Young/dp/B017Y43P3S
WHERE DREAMS GO TO DIE - Gary Robbins and The Barkley Marathons - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDZdsqbcGTU
I went up Kilimanjaro last January. It's 19,300ft but 1/1billionth as difficult as Everest. No climbing, just a lot of walking. Couple of cold nights of camping (-20F-ish), but on summit day we also descended 10,000 feet back into hot weather. Glad I went, but anything more difficult than that starts to get real uncomfortable real fast. I know a couple of Everest guides, and their stories are horrifying. The discomfort and filth you have to endure for months is unreal. That people pay so much money to put themselves through it is mind blowing to me. Go hike in Switzerland or Austria and it will be more beautiful and there will always be copious quantities of beer ready for you at the end of the day.
I won't begrudge anyone's passion, but you see those pictures near the various camps around Everest and it just looks awful. There are SO MANY dead bodies, just sitting there, and with so little sanitation efforts it must be gross beyond belief. Again, I get the idea of wanting to reach a summit and experience what I can only imagine is a transcendent experience, but there is just so much danger and cost associated with it that it feels almost wasteful. Like you said, hike around other mountain ranges and you'll have a much safer time with, I assume, equally breathtaking views and experiences.
That picture is crazy. I understand why people are drawn to it but the unnecessary crowds are getting out of hand. Better to seek a path less traveled. Great accomplishment but not really worth the money and risk.
Anyone who wants to do this is quite stupid, to be honest. I know more people survive the process than don't, but that doesn't change how dangerous it is. I have hiked plenty of times in Colorado and get a much better experience than the knuckleheads who want to topple Everest. The Rockies are the most beautiful mountains I have seen (in person, of course...I have seen mountain ranges online in Switzerland that look like heaven, if you believe in that...I don't). Summer mountains are far better to hike, anyway. I'd much rather be surrounded by green and brown wilderness than trying to walk through a shit ton of snow.
Cool OT topic, thanks for sharing, Don.
Yeah, that picture is insane. Like you, I love to travel and fervently want to see as much of the world as possible while I'm still able to. No way in hell I'll do Everest, though. Also, you have to imagine that with as many foreigners who die on Everest, there is a ripple effect that endangers or flat-out takes the lives of the sherpa native guides that we don't hear nearly as much about.
At the same time, I think I get why people are doing it, and in greater numbers than ever before - and sadly, I strongly suspect that the very real possibility of death is part of the appeal. Have you ever been to a place like the Grand Canyon? Did a very small part of you wonder what it'd be like to plunge into that abyss? I still remember being in freaking Las Vegas, at Siegfried and Roy's Tiger Habitat 12 years ago, about as antiseptic a travel destination that side of the Mississippi - I was inches away from a tiger pacing about its habitate. I was quite safe, of course, but there was something electric and hypnotic about being >.< close to an exotic animal that could've casually disemboweled me and I was so transfixed that I don't know if I would've known to scooch away had there been no glass between us.
If you take that small electric thrill I felt and multiply that by the very real dangers posed by Mt. Everest, then you can see why hearing about the dangers might only amplify the appeal. I just now read about how you can sometimes see the frozen corpses of climbers who didn't make it.
It's not far now. I can't escape the sinister guard. Approximately 100 meters above Camp IV she sits leaning against her pack, as if taking a short break. A woman with her eyes wide open and her hair waving in each gust of wind. It's the corpse of Hannelore Schmatz, the wife of the leader of a 1979 German expedition. She summited, but died descending. Yet it feels as if she follows me with her eyes as I pass by. Her presence reminds me that we are here on the conditions of the mountain
There's 99% of you that reads that as a clear sign to not try that yourself, but 1% that is lured in by the macabre prospect of seeing that for yourself.
Colorado doesn’t have real climbing like other areas. Every 14er is basically a walk up.
"Every 14er is basically a walk up."
None of them are like doing El Capitan or the northwest face of Half Dome, but they're not all walkups in their entirety.
While virtually all of them can be approached on normal trails, there are a small number—Crestone Needle, Kit Carson, Little Bear, various routes on Longs—where the final summit ascent is climbing on hands and feet, and some use ropes for additional safety in specific places. Even the Keyhole route on Longs—which is done by grandmas and young kids—involves stretches where you're climbing hand over foot on pretty steep pitches, and there are a variety of spots on that route where one bad step can kill you. I'd love to do it again.
Definitely true but it has pretty weak alpine.
7 people have died this week alone, and at least several were directly due to overcrowding.
The Nepalese government needs to step in and cap summit attempts on a daily basis.
I don't disagree, but I doubt they're going to do anything drastic if it sacrifices tourism money.
One of my friends who is an ex climber and writer posted an interesting blog post the other day. He was in France where if you buy a pack of cigarettes, they essentially have warnings on there that this will kill you. Since he's known so many people who have died climbing, he was wondering if there should be that same disclaimer on climbing equipment. Of course, having had two friends die in bike versus car incidents this year, I could say the same thing about cycling.
While I understand the challenge of Everest, I have far more respect for the people that create their own challenges in the outdoors and truly get away from it all.
I made it to the summit of Mt. Evans (14,271 ft) in Colorado.
And no, I don't think the fact that I drove up to the summit detracted from the accomplishment at all.
I've driven the road on Mt. Evans a number of times, and it's not for the faint of heart. No guard rails means even a minor drift too far and you're screwed. Same with the Trail Ridge Road in RMNP.
I don't understand the appeal at all. I had a client last year who just wanted to hike to base camp, and that was enough to mess her up.
Mount Everest has become amateur hour. Summiting it really just shows how much money you have, how willing you are to take the credit for others work, and a high tolerance for waiting in line. The majority of these people shouldn't be there and are putting themselves and others are risk, especially the sherpas.
If you want to be a badass climber go climb K2, Cerro Torre, Denali, or the unknown Mount St. Elias*.
*The most badass mountain IMO is Mount St. Elias in Alaska. It's overlooked because it's the 2nd highest mountain in the US and 3rd highest in North America, but to summit a person has to overcome: bears at lower altitude, frequent storms (it's only 35 miles from the Pacific) that bring heavy snow and hurricane force winds at high altitude year round, dealing with the largest glaciers outside of Antarctica and Greenland, and 18,000 feet of vertical relief in 10 miles...and if you get in trouble there is no rescue crew.
second on mckinley (denali). have a great pic of it in my office that i took from the cockpit of a 727.