Harbaugh talks up Mayfield and Hudson
Interesting story in The Athletic (behind a paywall) about how Harbaugh answered a question on offensive line play by immediately talking up the play of Hudson and Mayfield, rather than addressing the play of the starters, which the question was about. Here's one take in the article:
"This is interesting for many reasons. Among them: Michigan’s offensive line played far better against Western Michigan, but that was also to be expected. Runyan still got beat multiple times, and Bushell-Beatty had a couple of lapses in pass protection, as well. Hudson and Mayfield played in garbage time and both looked good. Hudson in particular was really shoving dudes around in the run game at right tackle."
From my view, this is right, better but still lapses from the starters, and two plays in particular Hudson was moving people around easily. I and I assume all M fans are praying for rapid progress from both.
https://theathletic.com/516232/2018/09/10/monday-thoughts-jim-harbaughs…
September 11th, 2018 at 9:21 AM ^
I noticed on another (free) site the same thing, and that Harbaugh said they were "in the ballpark" of the starting role.
September 11th, 2018 at 9:24 AM ^
I think he knows as well as we do there’s no way Runyan and JBB both start all year. He’s just not going to come out and say it.
September 11th, 2018 at 9:27 AM ^
This is why I don't understand people who seem to think these guys are being held out of the lineup for "reasons". I think the staff wants Hudson and Mayfield to take the jobs as much as we do but they're just not ready yet. Harbaugh's said before that they're almost there, they just need to take that next step.
September 11th, 2018 at 9:39 AM ^
Occam's Razor ftw.
September 11th, 2018 at 11:40 AM ^
Because these same people watched JOK take snaps last year because Peters wasn't 'ready'.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:16 PM ^
He wasn't ready. I think he proved that.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:56 PM ^
JOK didn't look 'ready' to me and was never going to be 'ready', so I'm unclear what you mean by ready.
Futhermore it's kind of the coaches job to get players ready.
September 11th, 2018 at 2:07 PM ^
Agree with your take. Peters should have been getting significant game-time snaps in the early non-conference schedule to get him more up to speed...and Michigan paid for this failure big-time in the end. Hopefully a similar scenario to last week plays out this Saturday and that second unit gets even more time together on the field.
September 11th, 2018 at 2:46 PM ^
Yes, Peters not being ready is a failure on the coaches part not an excuse for JOK getting so many snaps. The same thing could be going on with the tackles and plays a part in why everybody may not be willing to just trust the coaches.
September 11th, 2018 at 8:30 PM ^
Peters a year later is still not ready. What makes you think he ever will be? Especially with the emergence of McCaffrey?
September 11th, 2018 at 9:18 PM ^
Still better than JOK.
September 11th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^
I don't really understand what you mean by "reasons." The issue is that it is all a calculated decision that has a huge margin of error. Consider Bowles's decision of whether or not to start Darnold last night. The upside over Mccown is huge, but the variation is way more vast.
It seems like Harbaugh is extremely conservative when it comes to taking risks on higher upside players. There's only so much you can prove in practice, and it's completely possible that Hudson and Mayfield may shine in a trial by fire. That just doesn't seem to be Harbaugh's way. It's a calculated decision, and obviously fans are going to be skeptical of it when the low upside players do poorly.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^
I don't disagree with your take, but the problem with Harbaugh's way is, like you said, there's only so much you can get out of practice. If you don't get these guys into games, it'll take longer to get to that next step.
September 11th, 2018 at 2:14 PM ^
Exactly. And these guys (Harbaugh) should have a good sense about this...but seem not always to. I've had plenty of kids who were terrific practice players that locked up mentally in the heat of live fire. But Harbaugh and his gang have got to know this...??? Play the kids who make the plays when the lights are on!!!
September 11th, 2018 at 2:26 PM ^
I think he knows as well as we do there’s no way Runyan and JBB both start all year. He’s just not going to come out and say it.
If this is the case, then why not take the calculated risk and put them in now? If he really expects Runyan and JBB to get passed, Mayfield and Hudson must be reasonable close now. If they are reasonable close now, why not put them in the game and let them learn so later in the year they got valuable game experience?
September 11th, 2018 at 9:24 AM ^
I think Mayfield or Hudson or both will find themselves in the starting lineup before the end of the season. I think the coaches went with known guys for the first few games in order to hold down the fort until Mayfield/Hudson were ready.
September 11th, 2018 at 9:27 AM ^
I think by the Northwestern game, Runyan will be out and Hudson/Mayfield will replace him.
September 11th, 2018 at 2:22 PM ^
Yeah, I think this is true. My thought is that they are just giving the boys more time to learn the playbook, pick up reads, learn their assignments better, and hone their technique a little more, so they are prepared for the bulk of the schedule.
September 11th, 2018 at 3:41 PM ^
Assuming that your assumption is correct, why do you suppose they aren't in the starting line up now so that they might learn their trade against inferior competition? It would seem to me that if you're programming Mayfield or Hudson, or both, to be your starting tackles for the B1G season, you might want to get them ready against the likes of WMU and SMU. Or do you consider a series of downs against WMU and another against SMU, plus repetitive tape watching of those series, experience enough for the likes of Wiscy, PSU, MSU, and OSU?
September 11th, 2018 at 9:36 AM ^
I am more optimistic about the general state of the OL. Here, everyone is (overly) focused on the failures of JBB and Runyan but if you look at the film they did pretty well-in general. But I do agree, Mayfield and Hudson showed great potential and I do wonder how soon they step into the starter slots.
September 11th, 2018 at 11:14 AM ^
" if you look at the film they did pretty well-in general"
![giphy[1]_0.gif](/sites/default/files/users/user124534/giphy%5B1%5D_0.gif)
September 11th, 2018 at 2:18 PM ^
9 YPC and no sacks did not happen in a vacuum :)
September 11th, 2018 at 9:50 AM ^
He also REALLY talked up Dwumfour and that’s not looking so great. I hope the Harbaugh hype is real for these two, if they can get average pass pro from the tackles the sky is the limit for this team.
September 11th, 2018 at 10:39 AM ^
Isn't Dwumfour ill/injured?
And JH wasn't the only one talking him up..it was universal from players, coaches and insiders so I don't think he was blowing smoke...quitelikely there is something more to it than over hyping the guy.
September 11th, 2018 at 10:50 AM ^
I dont think he’s injured, are you thinking of Solomon? Brian said on the podcast that Harbaugh came back to an interview with Sam Webb and told him “ask me who I am excited about” so he could specifically talk about Dwumfour. Then the first two weeks he’s behind Mone and Lo Marshall and Kemp looks like the better 3T. At this point I hope he is ill/injured, because the hype was “bigger Mo Hurst” and we need that badly.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:09 PM ^
Something more to it = going against our OLine in practice.
September 11th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
He also talked up Evans and Onwenu two years ago as guys who were going to be really special players. Ain't seen it yet.
September 11th, 2018 at 11:28 AM ^
Da fuck??? Evans is RB 1b, and is a legit threat every time he touches the ball, be it from a handoff or catching a pass. Onwenu has been a starter for the better part of two years, now.
WTF are you smoking?
September 11th, 2018 at 11:51 AM ^
Onwenu is a journeyman with no real competition for the starting job. Evans is a good back, but that's all. Neither is anything special. Certainly not worth raving about.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:23 PM ^
Except he was in a battle with Spanellis all summer and came out on top? Or are we just making up talking points now
September 11th, 2018 at 11:36 AM ^
Evans is a very good player.... sure as heck knows how to play and is heady... Higdon rose, so its not on Evans.
Onwenu has potential but is fat and eats loads of grapes, so he isn't slimming down soon.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^
I think Evans' impact has been limited by factors outside of his control. If we take advantage of his capabilities he is absolutely a star.
September 11th, 2018 at 9:57 AM ^
Ahh, Hudson and Mayfield. They must be those too young Amish boys Brother Yoder was speaking of.
They can really pull the cart in the run game, not to mention they're real butter churners in pass protection.
Only problem is they're always a little late:)
Damn I love that simile!
September 11th, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^
I know that Yoder is not popular here, for good reason, but he talked up Mayfield from the beginning of summer.
If Mayfield is a starting tackle before the end of the season, Yoder deserves credit for correctly calling / reporting / rumor mongering (whatever you want to call it) this one.
September 11th, 2018 at 2:24 PM ^
In real life I am a Yoder and my mother was raised Amish-I appreciate your "picture" here. But the "Brother Yoder" of which you speak reminds me of a motor-mouth Amish man who doesn't know when to shut up...sometimes I am like that too :) ...some of you think more often than not :)
September 11th, 2018 at 10:24 AM ^
By the time Northwestern rolls around, I think we'll know. The ramp-up in D quality from SMU to Nebraska to NW is a manageable one to get some guys ready, in my view. Playing against Western's 2nd string isn't a good situation, in my eyes.
September 11th, 2018 at 10:30 AM ^
Their first series(TD) was against WMU’s first string DEs.
September 11th, 2018 at 11:24 AM ^
Yes, and I know they were trying, but isn't it possible that at least subconsciously they had let up a little by that point in the game?
September 11th, 2018 at 11:31 AM ^
I mean, seriously - how could anyone tell if the WMU defense 'let up' at any point during the game?
September 11th, 2018 at 11:15 AM ^
Another guy who was tossing DLs around and moving really well in mop-up duty was Honigford, #59. He looked nasty out there and got a nice couple of combo blocks showing good feet.
September 11th, 2018 at 9:31 PM ^
He seemed to know exactly what he was supposed to do which impressed me. If you're uncertain on the line you are late. If you're late, you're beat.
September 11th, 2018 at 11:20 AM ^
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September 11th, 2018 at 11:43 AM ^
I have resigned myself to the fact that MSU, Wiscy, PSU, & OSU will all destroy our tackles in pass pro. I am not looking forward to seeing Bosa & Young and I hope Patterson makes it safely through the game. We just need to beat MSU & PSU to maintain our position as #2 in the East and salvage a 9-3 record. Hopefully they can get in some work against SMU, Neb, NW, & Maryland before we get into the meat of the difficult schedule.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:10 PM ^
I don't disagree with the concern, but if you had the stomach to re-watch last years OSU game you would see JBB blocking Bosa most of the game. He had a bust or two but generally did ok.
September 11th, 2018 at 2:55 PM ^
JBB seems a hair away from being good.. he sure looks the part.. he sure does well run blocking.... who knows, maybe he improves enough to be out of the discussion.
September 14th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^
he sure looks the part
Really? Maybe when he's standing still. He does have the size. But, when you see him move, he does not look like he has the athleticism to be a great tackle.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:52 PM ^
Michigan needs to beat Wisconsin at home. The two teams are fairly evenly-matched, especially now that M has a QB and WRs. Wiscy is not THAT good. I'll be disappointed if that isn't a win.
September 11th, 2018 at 12:03 PM ^
I get what people are saying about holding Hudson and Mayfield back until they're ready, but what I don't understand is that it would seem like the best way to get them ready would be to play them more. The coaches have said many times that the best way to get better at football is by playing football.
Personally I would think starting them against these overmatched defenses would be the best thing if you really think they're going to take over sooner or later, but at least put them in earlier than the fourth quarter of a game that was clearly out of hand. The fact that most of our starters were playing well into the fourth quarter makes it seem like the coaches don't expect the younger guys to push through this year and want to get the starters as many reps as possible...
September 11th, 2018 at 12:13 PM ^
I agree with this. If Harbaugh's goal was to get Mayfield and/or Hudson ready to start instead of Runyan/JBB, he would have subbed them in with the first string OL in the second half of the WMU game. Clearly it was a higher priority to get the starting OL more reps together.
Not definitive, but it's a data point that indicates we may be seeing JBB and Runyan for a while. Maybe it will be different against SMU now that the first string OL has almost 2 full games together.