rym

October 19th, 2023 at 6:33 PM ^

It sounds to me like the Big Ten’s description of the allegation is misleading because so-called sign-stealing isn’t the issue. “Sign-stealing” is legal, universally done, and part of the game. We are not talking about electronic intercepts here, so the characterization of whatever M supposedly did as “sign-stealing,” a legitimate activity that sounds nefarious but isn’t, is improper and irrelevant.

The actual allegation seems to be that they had somebody doing in-person scouting of opponents during the season, presumably by attending opponents’ games and giving the coaches a call to share observations. How is that wrong and how is such a rule enforceable? Reading between the lines, this sounds like it’s once again destined to be a nothingburger “scandal” that will be promoted by Harbaugh haters, OSU fans looking in advance for excuses, and MSU fans who hope to avoid talking about their dumpster-fire program.

Ryno2317

October 19th, 2023 at 6:49 PM ^

I, unfortunately, have spent some time on Eleven Warriors today.  The following is a summary of the comments in the various threads on this issue:

1.  They suspected Michigan was stealing their signs in 2021 as that would be the only way — other than the flu and the snow — Michigan could have won; 

2.  They believe it was only due to said sign stealing that we decided to allow Haskins to repeatedly cram the ball up their ass in the second half;

3.  They believe the reason we are such a great second half team is because we somehow download and decipher all their signs during halftime;

4.  They believe that we stole signs in the 2022 game and that explains how we decided to throw the ball deep in the second half and this alleged sign stealing was the difference as they won the game except for 5 plays and the resulting 350 yards we gained.  They have no explanation, however, as to why Edwards ran through their line untouched in the 4th quarter; and 

5.  This explains why Harbaugh — who was a shit coach with no record of accomplishment until 2021 — all of a sudden started winning.  They — for some reason — ignore the fact that Harbaugh was successful at each and every one of his previous coaching gigs.

I also spent some time on the MSU site and — in addition to similar nonsense — they believe Urban Meyer is currently on campus interviewing for the head coaching job.  

insane.

JHumich

October 19th, 2023 at 6:56 PM ^

I think that it's awesome that we beat people so badly, and have such an NFL-type staff, and seasoned and smart players, that they actually think we know what they are going to run by stealing signs.

If it's really just coaches complaining that they feel like we knew what they were going to do before they did it, then that is the biggest compliment I can ever remember being accidentally given a program.

The NCAA is unlikely to last long enough to complete its investigation.

But this is, in a way, AWESOME.

umfan83

October 19th, 2023 at 7:01 PM ^

The comment I seem to see a lot is something like "how else do you explain Michigan all the sudden getting good in 2021?"  ignoring the fact that a) a lot of teams had inexplicably poor COVID sesaons and b) In his first 5 seasons as coach Harbaugh had three 10 win seasons, went to 2 NY6 Bowls, was a win over OSU away from the CFP 2 times (most likely) and in one of those games he was a correctly spotted ball from winning.  But yeah the program was trash before we brilliantly started having staffers go to opponent's games to steal signs which for some reason made them the best team in college football.

blueballsohard

October 20th, 2023 at 3:57 AM ^

Assuming we're still talking OSU, you do realize JH was 0-6 vs them to that point, right? And we were what 2-18(?) vs them in all? 

Not saying this is true but if it were the other way around I imagine you'd be able to see it. It's really not that crazy a stretch. 

 

BostonWolverine

October 19th, 2023 at 7:18 PM ^

 "They believe the reason we are such a great second half team is because we somehow download and decipher all their signs during halftime" 

 

...If this is true that's a great fucking idea. Assign one GA to watch the sideline and take notes on every single sign during the game and another one to note what happened on every single play. Have them sit down and check patterns at Halftime. Honestly. Do this. It's great.  

SD Larry

October 19th, 2023 at 8:33 PM ^

Lunacy knows no bounds.  Frankly I'm fine with OSU not realizing the were outplayed, out hustled and out coached the last couple years.  If they want to delude themselves it was or will be about signs and sniffles it is probably better for us.  So, LOL.  Thank you for the summary of the Eleven W soft fairy tales and Go Blue !

Communist Football

October 19th, 2023 at 6:49 PM ^

If you don’t feel like clicking the link:

Statement from Michigan Football Coach Jim Harbaugh

"I want to make it clear that I, and my staff, will fully cooperate with the investigation into this matter. 

I do not have any knowledge or information regarding the University of Michigan football program illegally stealing signals, nor have I directed any staff member or others to participate in an off-campus scouting assignment. I have no awareness of anyone on our staff having done that or having directed that action.

I do not condone or tolerate anyone doing anything illegal or against NCAA rules.

No matter what program or organization that I have led throughout my career, my instructions and awareness of how we scout opponents have always been firmly within the rules.

Pursuant to NCAA rules, I will not be able to comment further while this investigation takes place."

Wendyk5

October 19th, 2023 at 6:56 PM ^

So the claim is that someone on the staff may have gone to rivals' games for scouting purposes? Isn't that what watching film is for? They can get film of other teams' games. Are they saying that someone on our staff went with binoculars and was reading lips and connecting their signs to that lip reading? 

J. Redux

October 19th, 2023 at 7:12 PM ^

I think what they're basically saying is that somebody showed up at these games and took pictures / notes of the giant sign boards they hold up, and/or of the backup quarterback signaling in plays.

This would violate a clause prohibiting in-person scouting efforts, which was put in place not because the possibility of sign-stealing but rather as a cost-saving measure because smaller teams didn't want bigger teams to be able to send out an advance scouting staff when they couldn't afford it.  (If that sounds quaint -- the rule dates to 1994, which may as well be 1894 as far as athletics budgets go).

Harbaugh specifically denied as much.  He did not deny trying to figure out the other teams' signals through legal means -- and if that's what the halftime adjustments are all about, then other teams should have learned to use decoy signs or to switch them after halftime.

MRunner73

October 19th, 2023 at 7:46 PM ^

Greg Schiano of Rutgers is the likely suspect. He was bitching about something is not not right on the playing field at halftime during that game. His team was down 14-7 at halftime. Michigan would blank them 17-0 in the second half.

The NCAA closed down Jim's satellite camp in 2015 because some of SEC coaches, among others were also bitching about Jim doing these types of camps. The point is, the NCAA has been a thorn in Jim's side since year 1.

mgoblue78

October 19th, 2023 at 7:55 PM ^

The "vast network" part of this story has my imagination going, especially in light of Harbaugh's statement. Suppose a literal vast network of fans decided, lets have everyone go to future opponents' games, film their sideline signals, and then crowdsource an analysis of the signals vs the plays in the game. Heck, we could do it right here. I have no doubt it could be done successfully. If it gets posted here, is there any violation if our coaches use it?