Harbaugh Haters Have a Point (Maybe)
I'll eat shit a little bit as a so called "Harbaugh defender" because it's become obvious even to my biased eyes that Harbaugh's teams play really tight in big games and big moments. And it's not hard to draw a line between this pattern of behavior and Harbaugh's jitteriness for lack of a better term. He's intense in a way that seems to work at the NFL level but not so much with 18-to-22 year-olds. Unfortunately, this aspect of his coaching probably isn't going away.
The "Fire Harbaugh" crowd sees this and wants to roll the dice on a new head coach, even if the odds are uncomfortably high that his hypothetical replacement will trend closer to Brady Hoke/Rich Rod than Dabo Sweeney or even Lloyd Carr 2.0. Take the blinders off and look around the country. Elite program after elite program has floundered trying to find that perfect coach. Hell, look at what's happening at Penn State! A not-so-small faction of the Nittany Lion fanbase wants to exile James Franklin, who by any reasonable standard is one of the best coaches in the country. It's easy to fall in love with the potential of the unknown.
The million dollar question in the debate over Harbaugh's future is whether Michigan's ceiling is capped if he remains the head coach. Even a lot of Harbaugh supporters seem to be arguing for his higher floor than defending the possibility that he still gives Michigan a high ceiling. Personally, I am with the Harbaugh haters who want/expect/demand a head coach that gives Michigan a high ceiling. I don't want to settle for an endless parade of 8-4 or 9-3 seasons for the foreseeable future. But I disagree that Harbaugh doesn't give Michigan a high ceiling.
Yes, the jitteriness and general chaos Harbaugh exudes is not exactly conducive to peek performances in big games but I don't think it's insurmountable. The biggest issues in Harbaugh's tenure have been failures at quarterback and a total misunderstanding of what type of assistant coach he needs to hire. And who could blame him? He had achieved wild success everywhere he went by hiring the type of coaches he has consistently courted at Michigan. It took until this season to finally hire the right type of coaches: young, energetic assistants who bring with them college specific schemes and are willing to bust their balls on the recruiting trail.
If Harbaugh has finally found his star quarterback (either a continuously improving Cade McNamara or a down-the-road J.J. McCarthy) and if he has indeed hired the right assistants this time (pending a learning curve from Mike MacDonald, who got absolutely owned on Saturday), then what's the actual argument in favor of canning Harbaugh? Anyone can say "fire Harbaugh" but name a program that isn't a mess in the entire country outside of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Oregon and Notre Dame. Even Penn State is on shaky ground apparently. And Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and Clemson have built-in advantages that Michigan simply can't match year in and year out. And the guy many Wolverine fans think could be our savior (Matt Campbell) doesn't even seem to be on the radar of places like USC and LSU. That should probably tell us something.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:04 PM ^
Agree 100
November 1st, 2021 at 7:30 PM ^
See the problem is, we don't know how the season will turn out. So we nash our teeth wondering about the worst case scenario - 9-3 with a another 3rd place finish in the division and another no name bowl, while OSU and MSU and PSU(?) finish ahead of us to play a B10 title game against a mediocre-to-good-at-best B10 west opponent and a likley playoff spot.
Or, we beat PSU, MSU loses one more and the B10 title comes down to a game against OSU at home. 10-2 or 11-1 would be a very good season.
However, 2022 is the deciding season for JH, IMO. They have to win 11-12 games and get to a New Years Bowl. MSU, PSU,, Neb at home. @ Iowa, @ OSU are the only road games where wins are doubtful. No Wisc, no non-con opponents of significance. The 2022 schedule is a 2 loss MAX schedule, given that it's the 8th year of JH, 4th of Gattis, 2nd of Macdonald, and the roster sets up well with 2 experienced QBs, 4/5 OLs return, most of the D, all of the LBers, on and on and on.
November 1st, 2021 at 4:52 PM ^
name a program that isn't a mess in the entire country outside of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Oregon and Notre Dame.
- Oregon went 9-4, 4-8, 7-6, and 9-4 from 2015-2018
- Between 1991-2012, Clemson had zero two-loss seasons and already has three this season
- In ten seasons, Brian Kelly has had six with three losses or more
Soooooo we have it bad?
November 1st, 2021 at 4:56 PM ^
Welcome to parity for most NCAA football teams
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:11 PM ^
Oregon beats Oregon St at least 8 out of 10 years. Clemson has won 6 in a row against South Carolina. If Jim could beat MSU 8/10 times, I don't think there would be near the complaining to date. We get it OSU is vastly superior though I would argue we are getting to the point where he has to beat them too. Auburn has beaten Alabama multiple times and Auburn isn't any more talented than Michigan.
November 2nd, 2021 at 6:36 PM ^
You do realize you’re comparing Oregon State and South Carolina to MSU right…
November 1st, 2021 at 4:54 PM ^
I'm a in-betweener. I'm not on fire Harbaugh but I also don't love the guys results. If there's a coach that can do better I'd be intrigued but honestly I don't see that coach yet.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:10 PM ^
An in-betweener is o.k. …..but don’t be a settler, try direct T.V.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:21 PM ^
Explain to me how that’s possible. The only way we know if there’s a coach that can “do better”, is to hire a coach and find out. I’d love to be able to see the future but that just ain’t happening my friend.
November 1st, 2021 at 9:27 PM ^
Who would you hire? We tried a outsider with a flashy offense, RRod failed and set us back. We tried a michigan man in hoke, he failed and set us back again. Harbaugh has been mediocre but above average. Who do you see wins consistently? Look at FSU, Washington, they're in the same loophole.
November 1st, 2021 at 9:40 PM ^
Sleepy, that coach you haven’t seen exists in Cincinnati
November 1st, 2021 at 10:40 PM ^
Correct!
November 1st, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
I agree with the posts pointing to Harbaugh going in the right direction. I don't just mean that in terms of his having a top 10 team and 7 - 1 record, but in terms of getting the right personnel and developing players. Yes, some players don't do well with a conservative emphasis on not making any mistakes (we have a few recent quarterbacks who appear to have fit that mold), but certainly his two QBs this year don't appear to be self-destructing.
As I am known to do on this sight, I am a proponent of getting our backup with an above 200 quarterback rating (2nd in the nation) backup JJ in for entire series at a time, but I think Harbaugh has done a good job of keeping both their heads in the game. IMHO, same with our running backs this year and last year who are now living up to their potential ... despite the game getting a little too big for Corum on Saturday. Heck even the defensive and offensive lines have probably not had their talent maximized under Harbaugh as well as this year.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:32 PM ^
Michigan is a better than average program in the big ten east. Michigan has virtually unlimited resources. If being an above average team in one division of one conference is acceptable use of these resources, then leave things as they are. And yes I realize that the big ten east is the strongest division outside of the SEC---still having a very poor return on investment given the resources of our opponents--most painfully MSU
November 1st, 2021 at 6:03 PM ^
Get you some stripes and be there for the last game of the year!!! You are the answer!!!
November 1st, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
Deshaun Watson saved Dabo Sweeney's job. Well, that and an awful ACC conference.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:01 PM ^
The folks in South Carolina aren't too pleased with Dabo these days
November 1st, 2021 at 5:09 PM ^
Harbaugh and Michigan are about to go on their best 4 year run of QB and RB since he's been there, and offensive line won't be far behind. They have great energy, and culture as a staff, and will only get better on defense with a super young coordinator.
JJ, Edwards, AA, Will Johnson and others are at Michigan because of Harbaugh, Clink, Mac, and Hart. Now is not the time to start over. Without injuries Harbaugh and Michigan are almost a near lock to get 10 wins per year the next 4 years. With some good luck, and some playmakers stepping up, there is a solid chance for a BT championship or 2.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:11 PM ^
Agree 100
November 1st, 2021 at 5:19 PM ^
I believe everyone on this offense can (and probably should) return for next season with the exception of Vastardis. Additionally, we get Bell back next year. In case people forgot, he's our best offensive player and that includes Haskins and Corum. If Anthony and All continue on their current trajectory this offense has a chance to be an absolute buzzsaw next year.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:30 PM ^
This. You really want to risk ruining a season where our offense will have 3/4 returning starters on the OL let alone another whole 2nd string with tons of game experience, a WR room of Ronnie Bell/Roman Wilson/CJ/Andrel Anthony/Sainristil, potentially 3 returning starter caliber TE's including our best TE since Jake Butt in Erick All, a RB room with Corum and Edwards (if Haskins leaves as he probably should), and a legit 2-deep at QB with Cade/JJ (if they both stay)?
Maybe let's see if they can expand on Saturday's pass happy offense with a solid run game foundation first
November 1st, 2021 at 6:20 PM ^
i want to emphasize the huge improvement in All; so frustrating the past couple years. the same can also be said of Ross on D. he's had a heckuva year too, when people like me wanted him replaced. but, as often happens, young college players do get better.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:59 PM ^
Seriously, dumping this roster and staff now sounds like it would be about one the stupidest decisions in college AD history…..…which is why it won’t happen, unless we get thoroughly beaten in the rest of our games (which won’t happen)
November 1st, 2021 at 5:19 PM ^
You couldn't just add your take to the 15 threads that is out there to bash Harbaugh or the threads in the frontpage to bash Harbaugh.
Harbaugh is just going to leave one of these days and we are going to regret. I really wish he beat OSU this year and then leave saying a big Fuck You to everyone.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:12 PM ^
I'll celebrate when he leaves. I don't care if the next coach takes us back to the Rich Rod days. We'll cross that road if/when we come to it. All you can do is give a coach 4-5 years to accomplish what he can and then take stock and move on if you aren't where you want to be.
November 1st, 2021 at 11:07 PM ^
You clearly don’t really like Michigan or winning at all if you want to go back to the RichRod days…what a joke of a take.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:21 PM ^
Harbaugh can't win road games vs ranked teams. He also seems to automatically lose bowl games. His teams seem to lose close games from self-destruction and he seems to lose games against anyone who is a peer to Michigan. How many years of these results are needed before we say it's time to try something else?
Jim Harbaugh is Bo Pelini
November 1st, 2021 at 5:43 PM ^
Harbaugh can't win road games vs ranked teams.
Minnesota 2020 and Michigan State in 2018. If you prefer teams that ended ranked rather ranked at the time of the game, take those 2 out and swap in Northwestern 2018. And then wait to see how Wisconsin fares the rest of the season, but I'm guessing they'll end up ranked too based on how the rest of the B1G West is playing.
But if you really want some context, look up ranked road wins for all teams. As it turns out, almost nobody has a decent record in that department. Last time this came up, I believe everybody but Ohio State/Alabama/Clemson had less than 5 since Harbaugh came to Michigan
November 1st, 2021 at 6:53 PM ^
Yeah, you'd think from this board that Harbaugh sucks relative to the average NCAA coach. Spoiled babies, all of them.
November 2nd, 2021 at 8:51 AM ^
I don’t think anyone has said that. But you should also acknowledge Harbaugh wasn’t brought here to be “average NCAA coach.” It’s not controversial to say Harbaugh has failed to accomplish what he was brought here to do (hence the pay cut)
Whether you think that warrants him being fired is another conversation.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:47 PM ^
And Nebraska has been kicking ass ever since Bo got fired!!!
November 1st, 2021 at 5:23 PM ^
It’s time to take out the garbage
November 1st, 2021 at 5:56 PM ^
It's not always easy
But it can be fun to enjoy life
November 1st, 2021 at 5:23 PM ^
There were two things that stuck out to me on Saturday:
Complete inability to deal with tempo.
short yardage and red zone struggles.
The good news is if this really was something a wake up call can fix, we’ll have an answer this week against Indiana.
The short yardage stuff…maybe they do need a fullback. Maybe it’s still ongoing transition pains from Gattis. The inability/refusal to sneak it is infuriating. Maybe we do need a fullback.
ive never been as excited about the offense as I was for three quarters on Saturday. It was to that point Gattis’ best game, as well as Cade’s, and we looked to have found a number 1 receiver, someone who looks like everything we hoped DPJ would turn into.
I think the team will continue to play hard. I’m not sure how much of the meltdown was “playing tight”. But the issues with tempo, not converting key third down and short…that’s how I’m judging him for the rest of the season.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:26 PM ^
Solely addressing "playing tight" in big moments:
I watched this team (i.e., not trying to re-litigate 2017 or 2019, etc.) play pretty darn well on the road, coming from behind in the fourth quarter to win in Lincoln, and then outscoring Wisconsin 18-7 in the fourth quarter in Camp Randall after taking over their "Jump Around." Obviously, Saturday was a very tough loss. Some players stepped up in the biggest moments; others had a rougher outing. I think this team has shown good resiliency on the season. Hopefully the team and its leaders rebound and rally. On to Indiana.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:26 PM ^
We need DT’s that can play in the big games and not disappear
November 1st, 2021 at 5:40 PM ^
No they don’t have a point. The game was lost based on the performance of two freshmen, McCarthy and Corum. Mistakes that they will learn from and grow from.
Mike McDonald learned from this loss too. Make no mistake they will improve defensively because of this.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:55 PM ^
Observing faults and pointing out reality is not "hateing"
November 1st, 2021 at 6:01 PM ^
I love how everyone acts like there is no other coach out there. I'm sure not many picked Mel Tucker to do what he is doing.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:04 PM ^
I dont think his teams play tight traditionally I have believe it is as simple as--Jim shows up with a more talented team he will almost always win; Jim shows up with a less talented team he will always lose. The Harbaugh team will do exactly what you think it will do, and if your players are physically able to stop it you stand a good chance.
If he is nothing else he is a protégé of Bo
November 1st, 2021 at 9:03 PM ^
Except when he plays MSU, when he shows up with a more talented team and loses.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:05 PM ^
I don't think it's a stretch to say that if Harbaugh retired right now, people would look back at his Michigan tenure as a disappointment.
Could you honestly say that if you knew Harbaugh would have the following records in his seventh year that you would have gone forward with hiring him to begin with:
- 0-5 against Ohio State (and we all know it would have been 0-6 if they had played last year)
- 3-4 against Michigan State
- Zero Big Ten Titles
- Zero Appearances in the Big Ten Title Game
Prior to Rich Rod, Michigan regularly dominated Michigan State, beat Ohio State and won or shared Big Ten titles. Every coach from 1929 on won at least one conference title. We're on the third straight coach who hasn't been able to accomplish that. So you can understand why a lot of fans are disappointed with Harbaugh's results. He certainly wouldn't be viewed as one of the more successful Michigan coaches.
November 2nd, 2021 at 4:29 PM ^
Since the creation of the B1G East,
What coach has a good record against Ohio State?
The losses to Michigan State hurt but look at the record of those State teams.
Since the creation of the B1G East who else has won a B1G East Title?
If Michigan played in the B1G West, they would be Wisconsin. A couple of more wins and a couple of appearances in Indy with no wins against Ohio State. Would that make things better? Michigan plays in the toughest division in college football. You have to factor that in when looking at results.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:33 PM ^
Your coaching comparisons are awful.
Harbaugh IS Carr 2.0, have you even looked at their records side by side? The only difference between the two is that OSU is an absolute machine now and you can’t win the B1G as a 3 loss team anymore. Take away Carr’s national championship team and the rest of his 12 year tenure looks like typical Harbaugh.
Franklin is one of the best coaches in America? He’s 65-31 (.677) overall and 40-26 (.606) in the B1G. By comparison, Harbaugh is 56-23 (.708) and 38-17 (.690) in the B1G. The only thing Franklin has that Harbaugh doesn’t is a single win against OSU that led to a B1G East title in a year where PSU lost 49-7 to Michigan.
And Matt Campbell’s name has been mentioned for both the USC and LSU jobs. There’s multiple articles from the beat writers of both programs discussing his candidacy. It’s an unlikely marriage for cultural reasons, with Campbell being a very Midwestern guy that’s not a great fit for Southern California or the SEC. But he’s certainly “on the radar.”
Overall, just a very long-winded and poor opinion on your end with some really misguided comparisons.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:03 PM ^
Midwestern guy not a great fit for the SEC is literally one of the dumbest takes I hear. Sabin, Meyer and Miles all won national championships and are all Midwestern.
10 National Championships from those 3 since 2006, 9 at SEC schools. Not even counting Sabin's at LSU in 2003
November 1st, 2021 at 7:31 PM ^
For starters, it’s Saban. Sabin is a troll, I mean journalist, at the Freep. And “Midwestern guy” doesn’t just mean guy from the Midwest. It’s a personality thing. Campbell has spent his entire career in the Midwest and isn’t a culture fit down there (or out west). Similar to how Rich Rod just wasn’t a culture fit at Michigan.
Saban is from West Virginia (hardly the Midwest) and used his multiple stops and NFL stops to parlay into higher profile jobs. His win at all costs attitude is a fit for the SEC. One could argue that he was one of the guys that headed that charge in the conference.
Meyer left the region before getting a high profile job and is more culturally (win at all costs) a fit for the SEC.
Miles also coached in the NFL before landing a Big 12 job and eventually landing in the SEC.
Campbell (personality wise) isn’t remotely comparable to any of those three. He doesn’t seek out the limelight. He’s not cutting corners or breaking rules to get ahead. He’s much more of your classic, blue collar Midwestern guy. He just doesn’t fit in at a place like USC or LSU.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:10 PM ^
Carr won five Big Ten titles in 13 years.
Oh and I know Ohio State is great, but, just for comparison's sake, Auburn has managed to beat Nick Saban and Alabama five times. Saban has won nine times against Auburn.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:24 PM ^
And in all but one of those years (the 12-0 national title year), Michigan lost 3 games. Hence the, “you can’t win the B1G as a 3 loss team anymore” part of my statement. The RECORDS of Carr’s teams are essentially mirror images of Harbaugh. Harbaugh just coaches in an era where it’s significantly harder to win the conference and you don’t get a 7 or 8 win OSU team on the schedule like Carr did.
and yes, Auburn has been able to beat Bama. Not sure why that’s relevant to anything I said, as most of Carr’s wins came against subpar OSU teams and even HE couldn’t win once Tressel started building the machine.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:09 PM ^
Lloyd beat 9-0-1, 10-0, 11-0, 10-1, and 10-1 OSU teams. This foolishness you and others keep bringing up that Harbaugh = Lloyd is not based on anything other than opinion and not actual numbers.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:10 PM ^
Well, both opinion (one with which you don't agree) and actual numbers. Harbaugh certainly has beaten MSU, Penn State, and Wisconsin, multiple times. Just not quite as often as you'd like (and OSU not at all). But in overall records, Michigan under Harbaugh certainly is comparable to Carr. That was literally his point.
I mean, you can certainly choose some disappointing trends. Harbaugh's record against top ten teams. His record as an underdog on the road. But then a Harbaugh-defender can choose "record against FCS teams."
Eh, screw it. Nobody said Harbaugh has done a bang-up job. And being disappointed in him is fine -- even calling him a failure is fine. But don't refer to "opinions" as if you're not expressing one yourself.