Good Luck Michigan! IU is a mess.
Four days have elapsed since classes started at Indiana University. They already have eight COVID clusters and 20% of the Greek system is under quarantine.
MSU is starting to look smart going all online.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:01 AM ^
You talk about paying attention when it's obviously your failing. Your last statement is as detached from reality as is humanly possible.
This administration did put out guidelines back in March. Most states were following them, regardless of what party they were led by. It was president Trump who pushed states to reopen before they met the criteria for doing so, in direct conflict with his own scientific guidelines.
His lack of leadership has been stunning. Occasionally, he takes it seriously and listens to his experts, but then he changes direction on his own. He's shown a complete inability to accept any responsibility, to accept bad news or to pass it along to the American people. He can only tell us how great he's doing and how everything is far better than it is and a miracle is on its way soon.
He's consistently pushed for things that he believes will make himself look better, but help no one. He's doing it now pushing for decreased testing. It's the worst idea he's had and he's still trying to force it through. Remember when he wanted to keep infected American cruise passengers at sea just so they wouldn't count towards our number of cases?
You can find plenty of reasons to hate Democrats or to support Trump. But there is just no way to both sides his response to the pandemic without being willfully blind to reality.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:07 AM ^
. Zero doubt in my mind if the white house came out tomorrow and said here's exactly how this will be done it would be met with tons of 2nd guessing and statements about that's not what the science says etc .. No matter what he says you're fooling yourself if you actually think other side would comply.
Yeah, that's probably true. Perhaps it has something to do with the constant, daily, hourly stream of lies coming from the White House, and our president? Nah, that can't be it. DT said we're doing great, and so did the VP, so it has to be true.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:13 AM ^
You're a moron.
The left have basically been the ones saying, "sure wish this administration would fucking do something". This is honestly the most dishonest post I've seen on here in a while. It's been the right the entire time "let me throw an angry fit about wearing a mask!! Go Trump!" Don't try to fool yourselves, you and your party were on the wrong side on this, and that will come to light.
If you want to make the case that, "Covid doesn't impact the young, college aged student" or some other nonsense, at least that has some form of argument. It's wrong, and stupid, as plenty of younger folks are hitting the extreme end of this - ICUs, surgeries, amputations. You'd still be wrong but you'd at least have some ground to stand on. Your argument is completely ridiculous. The stance from this admin has been "do nothing this will magically go away". Now that's it's not going away the argument is "you would have never done anything anyway!" GTFO you're a moron.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
Political Discourse in 2020...
Person 1: You're a moron.
Person 2: No, you're a moron.
Person 1: Fuck you!
Person 2: Eat shit and die, motherfucker.
Ain't it grand to live in a time of such eloquence?
August 28th, 2020 at 10:00 AM ^
If Fauci had been the leader of the response, the Governors would have gotten behind him. But, yeah, no one was going to follow Pence. What is his background in infectious diseases? Pray it away is not a real solution.
BTW, local morning news is reporting >100 cases at USC.
August 28th, 2020 at 10:25 AM ^
This Whitehouse has created a huge credibility problem for itself. Ironically, this Whitehouse was uniquely positioned to push for an aggressive early strategy. Blue states were generally predisposed to such a strategy and the White House had the credibility with the areas most resistant to the strategy to push them to do it.
if this Whitehouse had been able to roll out testing more quickly, we would have been much more aware of the level of community spread much more quickly. We could have tamped down earlier and things never would have gotten as bad.
August 28th, 2020 at 11:07 AM ^
Honestly, if the president had just set out any kind of national plan and we were on par with the rest of the 1st world, he would be waltzing to a comfortable reelection right now
August 28th, 2020 at 12:14 PM ^
This! This was a gift wrapped opportunity for Trump to guarantee reelection but he choose to troll the libs instead.
August 28th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
Trump’s the president. He has the most power and access to the most resources to fight this. The results so far are shit and as a result he gets the blame. If he did not want this responsibility he should resign. You can cry and make all the excuses you want like a toddler. Maybe go cry to your mom that its not fair. Hopefully, she will slap you upside the head and tell you to grow up as well. I and most others don’t give a shit about your pathetic excuses for Trump. The results speak for themselves.
August 28th, 2020 at 12:04 PM ^
President Donald Trump can’t help but sow division, even at a time when Americans are largely united in supporting stay-at-home orders and social distancing to slow the spread of the coronavirus. Just after 11:21 am Eastern time on Friday, President Donald Trump posted a trio of tweets endorsing the so-called liberation of a trio of states with Democratic governors from measures they’ve taken to slow the spread of coronavirus. These posts — which are among the most dangerous of Trump’s tenure — appear to have been inspired by a segment he saw on Fox News minutes earlier. “LIBERATE MINNESOTA!” Trump began, with two further tweets saying “LIBERATE MICHIGAN” and “LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd amendment. It is under siege!”
It took me 4 seconds to find some reciepts for you. This was in the middle of April when he was calling to liberate a number of states with stay at home orders (all of which have Democrats in the Governors office, coincidentally).
August 28th, 2020 at 12:11 PM ^
This is such a dumb take. A plan that not everyone would follow is still better than no plan at all. This could apply to democrats as well if it makes you feel any better.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
1) The vaccine does not need to be 90% effective
2) Yes, this IS the best we can do
August 28th, 2020 at 7:44 AM ^
"At this point it's extremely frustrating that this thing is so damn stubborn." It's not "this thing" that is so damn stubborn-it is us. The rate of compliance with simple, difference-making measures remains at a level that continues to put most everyone at increased risk. That "this thing" remains alive and well defines our pathology as much as it does that of the virus.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:29 AM ^
Been saying this for months but facts went out the window for many and emotions instead took over.
No state or plan has shown they have the perfect plan to stop this virus despite numerous attempts. The United States death rate isn't even in the bottom 10 worst yet many are convinced we somehow are doing things all wrong. Most are failing to look at the numbers with any context when comes to testing and population which doesn't surprise me at all considering how awful most people are understanding statistics (known this from years betting sports profitably).
I've lived in 5 different states from Oregon to Michigan for multiple weeks at a time last 6 months and mask use seems to have picked up considerably imo yet it's had no positive effect on case count but yet again many are convinced this is the main reason we haven't got this under control. Just as many examples of areas doing well that are against mask use (and yes I wear a mask trying be team player) as there's no consensus opinion in science across the world on how to best handle this virus.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:39 AM ^
One thing wanted to add about masks is I was able to get my hands on an n95 mask back in early March and wore it the first few months. It was miserable, hot, uncomfortable, etc... Started to notice everyone wearing the light blue type ones later on so eventually switched to those and there's no way in hell those could be even close to as effective as n95. In fact I'm convinced those paper thin blue ones most wear now are completely useless. Takes about 20 seconds of use to tell there's definitely a major difference between the two. If you truly wanted to see how effective mask use could be you'd make ONLY the n95 mask allowed and then we might actually see some noticable changes in case count.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:17 AM ^
I don’t get your point. Of course N95s are more effective, but not everyone can get one and something is better than nothing. If you want every single citizen to wear an N95 that requires federal government assistance and this administration hasn’t shown the slightest interest in containing this.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:29 AM ^
You’re right. Trump hasn’t taken any moves to contain this. He certainly didn’t stop foreign travel VERY early in the process and get skewered for over reacting by the media. That never happened.
?
August 28th, 2020 at 7:34 AM ^
Cool. A travel ban. Travel bans aren't effective in containing viruses OR travel, as noted here. But it sure feels good when you want to blame a bunch of foreigners. I'd say most everyone outside the US is having the last laugh right now.
August 28th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
Why is this the only thing his supporters can point to as to what he did to contain it... it’s one thing and even if we give him points, that was months ago.
Also I’m gonna say this again, if you’re a leader and you think your making the correct decisions, you don’t worry about what the haters say. You show some conviction and make the call. That people keep bringing up how his political opponents criticized him just goes to show what fucking babies they/he are.
it’s like a state fan saying how awesome a 3-9 season is cause of that one cool highlight play, which ultimately had no effect on the outcome of the game. It’s still a lost year.
August 28th, 2020 at 1:48 PM ^
I really hope no one is laughing, but I guess some may find pointing at higher death rates between the US and other countries is a great punch line....
August 28th, 2020 at 8:01 AM ^
You mean the 'travel ban' that stopped only Chinese nationals from entering the US, but still allowed other countries citizens in at will and also allowed US citizens to travel to/from China at will? And wasn't implemented until one week AFTER the airlines self-imposed flight restrictions to/from China? That 'travel ban'? Or the one that came six weeks later, with the same 'restrictions', for Europe?
Spare me further gaslighting, we just had a solid week of it. That shit only works on the weak of mind. Those that are predisposed to the principles of race-based power and money hoarding don't need to be gaslighted.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:05 AM ^
If denial keeps him warm at night, that's fine for him. It just won't help any of the rest of us here in reality.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:45 AM ^
Correct - he didn't stop foreign travel.
He stopped Chinese nationals (unless they had immediate family in the US or a green card). Everyone else? Come on in.
... and he did it after the virus was already established in the US.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:09 AM ^
"He certainly didn’t stop foreign travel VERY early in the process and get skewered for over reacting by the media. That never happened."
In your effort to be sarcastic, you actually ended up with the first true statement you have posted in a while.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:36 AM ^
You're right, he didn't. Because his stupid attempt at a travel ban was way too late, and designed to allow 10's of thousands of people still travel from China and Europe back to America.
August 28th, 2020 at 10:46 AM ^
After wearing a heavy parka for 20 minutes it was heavy and very warm. So I switched to my regular jacket and after 20 seconds I could tell there's definitely a major difference between a heavy parka and my regular jacket. Therefore a jacket is completely useless in keeping a human being warm.
Does that sound silly? Do we think a jacket is as effective as a parka? No. Does that make it useless? Be honest with yourself for once in your life.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:15 AM ^
California's numbers have not been high but when comparing them to Michigan, it is important to realize that Cali has four times the population of Michigan. Cali's mortality rate is roughly half the rate of Michigan's, although treatment techniques have improved considerably and a large portion of Michigan's deaths were early in the pandemic.
When doing comparisons it is important to look at the demographics as poverty and high densities of people living together increase spread. Ditto for regions with big cities versus areas of low population densities as well as the education level of a population.
Without a national plan of containment to keep numbers down to a level where contact tracing is an available method of controlling spread, without a vaccine and/or a highly effective therapy, it is a crapshoot.
August 28th, 2020 at 11:40 AM ^
If you look at rates (cases/deaths per 100k residents) CA hasn't really been one of the bad states at all, despite being very densely populated in most areas and being one of the earliest hit. LA has had a hard time (but again, not as bad as NY, Detroit, Chicago, Miami, Phoenix, etc) and San Diego and San Francisco have been poster children for big city COVID spread (or lack there of).
CA is 19th nationally in cases per 100k, despite being a state where the vast majority of the population lives in very dense areas. CA hasn't handled this perfectly by any means, but they've done better than most.
August 28th, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
Super important post. Drove down to SD a few weeks ago and despite giant crowds of maskless people infesting the beach, they're still on their way to reopening schools and getting back to normalcy because they essentially have it under control.
It's amazing how bad people are at reading and understanding statistics. I suppose it doesn't help that many practice the art of lying with them.
August 28th, 2020 at 7:01 AM ^
Does High Blood Sugar Worsen COVID-19 Outcomes?
Yes. It involves the population eating much less sugar.
Sugar both drives inflammation AND allows Covid-19 to enter cells via ACE2 receptor sites.
The average American eats 3 pounds of sugar/week and is very fat (~ 30 BMI).
Covid also likes to reproduce in fat cells.
Unfortunately, most people would rather die than give up sugar. (it's addiction).
August 28th, 2020 at 7:58 AM ^
John P. A. Ioannidis is the patron saint of people like you, isn't he? Lots of bitching and complaining, no concrete plans. How 'bout you make a plan? Show your work at a detailed level. What exactly should we do?
Pointing out that the economy is being ruined is stating the obvious. You don't get any points for that.
August 28th, 2020 at 8:56 AM ^
Here in Massachusetts, it looks like we are successfully flattening the curve.
We got hit hard at the beginning of the pandemic, similarly to NY. The response was a strict quarantine for about a month before the Gov. and mayor started rolling out a phased opening plan. Since the initial spike, people in the state have universally taken things seriously and masks are almost universally worn if you are indoors. People wear masks while they are walking alone. The majority of homeless people even have masks. On top of that, the phased opening we've had here has been very gradual. Restaurants opened up for outdoor dining but we still haven't opened up bars (nor should we). Things are returning back to normal, most people are going back to work and we more or less have our normal lives back albeit with a mask.
I think Mass has been a model state for how they've handled the pandemic. The state didn't rush things back open (like California) and almost everyone respected the rules of the pandemic (social distancing, wearing a mask in public at all times, choosing your social interactions wisely).
We will see if another spike comes as school starts (since Mass has a ton of Universities) but as of now, we have flattened the curve. It's possible, you just need buy in and commitment.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:50 AM ^
This has been NYSs experience as well. It’s been beaten in the northeast and we are opening schools for every other day instruction. Sports start 9/21.
it can be done if it’s done smartly and slowly. It may return at some level in the fall with schools going back but there are plans and thresholds for closing back down if that happens.
August 28th, 2020 at 11:19 AM ^
I think it is still somewhat of an open question on the Northeast. If we look at death rate per capita we see that top four is NJ, NY, MA, CT. If we look at total cases per capita NY is 7, NJ 9, MA, 17 and CT 26. So cases look better but we have to qualify that with all those states being hit early when we had less testing capacity which creates a substantial chance the case undercount there is higher than the states that were hit later.
This all gets to the question of how much of the Northeast curve is a result of massive spread of the virus early creating a higher level of immunity vs. the public health measures.
Perhaps a better question around all this is, what does success look like? While I see some things as a success in some states, I still view schools only partially open as a major failure. It appears you disagree and that’s fine. It does make me think back to our history in Vietnam, another highly divisive issue in our country. We never really had a consensus around what victory looked like which led to a disastrous strategic approach. Maybe asking for a good plan to combat this is not the right question. Perhaps we first need to ask what victory over Corona looks like. How do we define success?
August 28th, 2020 at 9:06 AM ^
Probably because California is a state not a country. Combined with evacuations due to wildfires and the fact the hundreds of thousands of poor workers who live in cramped conditions continue to go into work because California farms feed a 1/4 of the country.
There is a pretty easy plan to tamp down cases, a nationwide real lock down for a month, increased and improved testing and a nationwide plan.
August 28th, 2020 at 10:51 AM ^
Honestly, if we went full authoritarian, called in the Army and National Guard to deliver food to every household, mobilized every spare doctor and nurse to do rotating two-week shifts in epicenters, and shut down everything that could be possibly shut down without total societal collapse and pressed pause on the economy, for six weeks, COVID would be essentially stopped.
It'll never happen, though.
It would've been a lot easier if we didn't half-ass our shutdown back in March, but that's the choice: a slow burn or rip the band-aid off.
August 28th, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^
I appreciate you talking about a plan other than, lets just keep doing what we are doing better, even if I don’t necessarily agree with it. One thing many of us can agree on is that the current approach sucks and a major factor in this is our terrible leadership. Its great to bitch about it but how about we do something about it.
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Don’t only focus on the presidential race. There are of course other federal offices up for election but also pay attention to your state/local races. This pandemic has shown us that in an emergency good leadership is important at all levels. When you find a good candidate at any level who you think can help us get though both Covid and other challenges do what you can to support them. That school board election nobody cared about starts to be a lot more important when they are making decisions about how we will operate our schools in this environment.
August 28th, 2020 at 2:20 PM ^
Ah, more Leftist propaganda allowed by the mods.
#NoPoliticsExceptWhenItsTheLeft
August 28th, 2020 at 3:05 PM ^
There seems to be a rather extensive Trump defense up thread that has not been removed.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:57 PM ^
Thanks. Which one? Looking at the board and not seeing anything readily apparent that would defend Trump.
August 28th, 2020 at 6:18 PM ^
I don't see a lot of people posting that 2+2=5 either.
August 28th, 2020 at 5:47 PM ^
CA hasn't been aggressive at all. At least, not in comparison to what other countries have done. So if you're comparing to states that are literally doing nothing, ok, it's been a little more aggressive that than.
I'm in LA county and basically the only things we can't do is indoor dining and large indoor gatherings. And since it's CA, all that stuff has just moved outside. Tons of outdoor dining (its crazy to see patios swarmed with people), barbers have just moved chairs outside, even massage places with tables outside.
I went to visit family in central CA earlier this summer and there were doing NOTHING. No masks being worn even by workers inside of stores and businesses.
Our initial shutdown was half assed compared to European countries and now we're like at pretty minimal closings.
August 28th, 2020 at 12:26 AM ^
MSU has been very aggressive from the start. From their mandatory mask policy, to quarantining full football team for two weeks, to going all virtual.
August 28th, 2020 at 2:14 AM ^
I see two different ways to look at this, either you have a full campus and accept that kids will get covid but treat it like a flu and figure kids will get over it mostly ok and take the herd immunity approach, or you go 90% online and have a reasonable chance of stopping the spread.
I expect UM will end up just like every other open university campus with a slew of cases.
I'm just some no name alumnus, but if Schlissel or any any school administrators think they can have an open campus and still contain this, then I have lost all faith in their ability to administer a university and think it's time to move on. Totally inexcusable to have that lack of insight into your student body and foresight into what the consequences of an open campus will be.
August 28th, 2020 at 9:45 AM ^
Yes, eventually you have to open campus. And once you do this will most likely occur. The only thing you do by going online is delay the inevitable. I was never an on campus student, but I would guess most of you were. Did you all forget what it was like?
Personally, I'd much rather these kids get the Covid, if they haven't already done so, on campus, when they are away from their parents, who are much more likely to have negative outcomes than they are.
August 28th, 2020 at 10:04 AM ^
The fucking ignorance on display from you guys, daily, is just astonishing. You have no desire to learn anything, or hear anything that doesn't mesh with what you wish to be true. People like you are exactly why we're where we are right now WRT covid, and you still refuse to acknowledge that FACT.
Just blatant stupidity, nonstop. Please stop.
August 28th, 2020 at 12:02 PM ^
I mean, I've know your posting history, so this is probably useless to point out facts, but you are aware of the mortality curve for the Covid right? It's very steep. 0.01% is the number I remember for 15-24 from some time back. 45-54 is 0.5%. Those would be the parents.
These numbers may be slightly different now, but a rudimentary search in Google is as useless as to be expected in 2020.
College age kids who socialize are going to get it, I'd rather they get it somewhere away from their parents.
August 28th, 2020 at 12:30 PM ^
Why does it only have to be about death rate? When someone gets sick, more happens than whether or not that one person dies. C-19 is FAR more contagious than the flu/cold - so more people are going to get sick at a much faster pace. That, in turn, begins to affect job performance and attendance - which effects a business' product. Which, by definition, affects the economy. It also affects health care - more insurance spending, more PPE used, more supplies that may be running low, less access to providers because more people are seeking the same resources. There are well documented evidences of long term effects that are not readily associated with the flu/cold.
If it were as easy as comparing 'person gets sick - either survives or dies', then sure, death rate is a great measure. But its more than that. Stop conflating the overall impact with whether or not one person has a better chance of dying than another.
August 28th, 2020 at 1:59 PM ^
Actually, the Covid is not far more contagious than the Flu, it's about the same as the cold, because it is a cold (coronavirus), albeit a pretty deadly one. The only reason this Covid spreads so fast is because it has far more hosts to spread to, because its NOVEL.
I really don't understand why you people don't get that a certain percentage of people, and who knows what that number is, are eventually going to get this coronavirus. Or at least that it will have the same penetration percentage as all the other common cold type viruses.
Are you all just incapable of accepting this? If so, you are no better than those idiots who think the whole thing is a hoax.
August 28th, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^
More bullshit. To use my posting history as grounds to say it's useless to point out facts is pretty fucking rich, dude. It's like all you guys play the same game, whatever you're saying about someone on the opposite side is 100% guaranteed to be what you are doing.
You're not a very good human being, and pure cancer to honest discussion.