EMU getting whipped by Bradley
EMU is currently down 30 to Bradley with about 7 minutes to play. Bates with 13 points on 5/13 shooting and Farrakhan with 6 on 3/10. Just one game, but a major back to earth moment for EMU and probably a pretty big red flag for Michigan's defense.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:50 PM ^
Meanwhile, Izzo just absolutely fucking crushed Calipari.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:07 PM ^
The game went to 2OT.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:10 PM ^
The talent disparity there is insane. Kentucky just ran endless isos and MSU ran actual plays. Switch the coaches and that's a 25 point win for Kentucky in regulation.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:25 PM ^
I honestly don’t know if I saw Kentucky run 1 set play. Their bigs don’t even pass out if the post very well. Calapari is a clown
November 15th, 2022 at 10:58 PM ^
I'm not sure Izzo would have any idea what to do with that level of talent. His best teams are like these ones where they're super-experienced and run exactly what he wants.
Calipari gets a bad rap at times as a coach - he winds up having a bunch of teams that look lost on the first half of the season but turn it on in the second half because he takes these 5* freshmen and gets them to be reasonably competent as a team later in the year. I wouldn't want him as a coach but Izzo has a long history of squandering great talent when he tries to do the Calipari thing. It's hard
November 15th, 2022 at 11:24 PM ^
I think Cal is good at a lot of what he does, but the on-court stuff isn't his forte and I think some of that is just a choice he makes to put teams together that don't share a lot of experience but have boatloads of talent.
There isn't a single coach who hasn't thrown up some bricks and underachieved when they've gotten a lot of talent.
November 16th, 2022 at 12:40 PM ^
Yeah, I think Calipari's approach is one he's adopted but isn't necessarily the most efficient. But he's also gone to four FF in 13 years at UK and a handful more Elite 8s and Sweet 16s.
I agree there isn't a coach who has wasted a bunch of talent, but Izzo for whatever reason feels like a guy who periodically tries to play with the big boys talent-wise and seems annoyed when these 4.5*/5* kids don't arrive as 4th-year starters recovering from a knee injury and really handsy on defense.
November 16th, 2022 at 6:38 AM ^
I agree. Everyone is talking about this great class he has coming in next year. He does better with this type of roster he has now.
November 16th, 2022 at 7:59 AM ^
I'm not much of a college basketball savant much less know anything about true X's and O's, but my understanding of Calipari and how he runs his teams, generally speaking, is that he just recruits a bunch of one and dones and essentially just asks them to go out there, make plays and out-talent the other team.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sure how far off base I am with that considering he hasn't made a Final Four in a little while and he's got a talent advantage over almost anyone who goes out onto the court.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:55 PM ^
It’s not hard to out-coach Calipari. It’s hard to out-recruit him. LESS WITH MORE™️ should be on their jerseys.
November 16th, 2022 at 8:30 AM ^
When i think of 'less than more', Mack Brown and Tom Izzo are the first 2 that come to mind.
November 16th, 2022 at 12:47 AM ^
Crushed? The game went to double overtime, moron.
November 16th, 2022 at 8:29 AM ^
crushed? CRUSHED?!?!?!
November 15th, 2022 at 9:51 PM ^
UM will struggle this year baring a miracle on D and sudden playmakers at the guards.
It is what it is at this point. Hope for the best.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:01 PM ^
Unfortunately my instinct is to agree. I was surprised to hear one of the guys on the podcast say something about being good on defense last year (UM was 74th in D on kenpom). Not much evidence so far that it will be much better this year.
I am hopeful that the last 4 minutes of the EMU game will show Llewellyn that he can be and needs to be much more assertive.
Long way to go though.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:15 PM ^
Howard and staff have a guard development problem. Now that all the residuals from the Beilein era are gone we're gonna see what he can really do as a coach outside the paint. So far it's not looking good.
November 16th, 2022 at 1:44 AM ^
So far? The guy is ending every season better than what we did for an entire decade to start this century. We got Beilein with decades more experience than what Juwan has. How is he going to be the best out of the gates?
November 16th, 2022 at 9:58 AM ^
Why are we still comparing him to the performance during the down years of the program? There was a decade long regime since then that was very successful. No one is claiming he should be fired. We're talking about concerns from a fan perspective. Is this not a fan discussion board?
November 16th, 2022 at 8:46 AM ^
Or you could turn this on its head and say that former guard Howard Eisley--soon to be an HC at another major u--has done a masterful job, in mere months, of turning three successive mid-major guards into successful practitioners for Michigan and getting to four successive Sweet 16s. It's all a little more ad hoc than it used to be, which is why Tom Izzo MAY succeed this year with a seasoned group of not-incredibly-talented, but disciplined, players. If you think that Juwan and co. have no desire to find a guard they can develop over the longer-term, you don't really follow anyway. But you can study the recruiting boards and see who they're talking to currently.
These snide anonymous poster comments that suggest that--at a glance--the commenter, in his august wisdom, sees obvious holes that coaches who are spending the day round thinking and talking and working on the issues don't. . . leave a little bit to be desired.
November 16th, 2022 at 9:56 AM ^
Did I question whether the coaches are thinking about this and trying to coach up the players? No. Did I question if he WANTS to find a guard to develop? No. That's a ridiculous statement. And I don't care who they're talking to in high school, I care what those players do when they get here. They've consistently recruited top 50 and even top 20 bigs, and a little bit lesser PGs that have either transferred out or not lived up to the hype, which the staff obviously recognizes since they've brought in transfers to fill the holes 3 years in a row. That's not sustainable and it's showing. The Sweet 16s are phenomenal. Love it. But guard play wins championships. That's how we got to the finals both times in recent memory.
The guard play last year was bad. Without Eli Brooks, a Beilein guy, it would have been downright terrible. This year it's not looking great. I'm seeing a lot of dumb turnovers. Is it early? absolutely. I'm talking trends. We had stellar PG play and great shooting for basically 10 years of Beilein. You can't tell me there hasn't been a dropoff in 3pt shooting, ball security, and just overall ability to run the offense and feed the stars in good situations. Two years ago all we heard about was how Michigan was incredible at finding creative ways to feed the post. Last year Dickinson had a big dropoff because ball movement and entry passes were lacking, at the same time as 3 pt shooting taking a steep dive. Love Juwan, but this is an area that has been lacking. What did I say that's wrong?
November 17th, 2022 at 10:02 AM ^
You might have been frustrated by the failure to snag Collier, dunno. But I hope you got a chance to watch last night. Things are rarely quite as bad as they look in the worst times, or as great as they look when you're winning big but. . . looks like we could be okay. We had recruiting miss after miss and gnashed our teeth with Beilein, believe me. And X with other teams sagging off him, missing three after three. . .
I stand by what I said.
November 16th, 2022 at 1:53 AM ^
Yes, been saying it since last year. Michigan was legit bad at defense last year and lost their two best defensive players (Brooks and Diabate).
This year is going to be the worst defense Michigan has had in over a decade. Might be worse than any defense John Beilein ever had (his worst was his first year in 2008 when they were 129th in kenpom).
They have no one to defend the perimeter. They don't have a wing stopper. They don't have a rim protector. It's going to be ugly.
High scoring games though!
November 15th, 2022 at 9:52 PM ^
MSU also downs Kentucky in 2OT. Ruined the evening.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
Nobody does less with more than Calipari
November 15th, 2022 at 10:13 PM ^
This game would of bothered me in years past. I just brushed it off to MSU is actually a good team this year. Kentucky had man chances but kept crapping the bed late.
Also crazy how refs just let Izzo run onto the court during the game. Commentators don't even say anything. Izzo is literally inches from Kentucky players during live play.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
Also watching the refs give Izzo the game on a silver platter. Why did they stop that 5 on 4 for Kentucky? Also, the dude just fell over and they call a 5th on Oscar.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:55 PM ^
That was an obvious moving screen. He literally stepped into him. Walker absolutely flopped though.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:01 PM ^
It may have been but I feel like you let that go in that situation. If you call it, at least call the foul on Sissoko when Tschiebwe went up for that shot in the post.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:59 PM ^
Kentucky looked basic and lacking in creativity. Despite all their “talent.” Staee is built the right way, unfortunately. A lot of experience. Good guard play. They will be a tough out this year. Somehow the tiny angry troll from above the bridge continues to find guys willing to play for him.
Its a shame Michigan won’t take guys like Tyson Walker. He has solid size, handles it well, shoots it well and wasn’t a grad transfer which means he is around for more than one year. Our willingness to only take grad transfers means our guys have to learn the system for half the year and then when they get it rolling they are gone.
November 16th, 2022 at 1:59 AM ^
Not really sure what to make of MSU yet. They've faced two pretty one-dimensional teams in Gonzaga and Kentucky, and they haven't had to really worry about an outside threat. Gonzaga shot 22% from 3 and Kentucky 28%. I'll see how they compete with a team that can actually get hot.
November 16th, 2022 at 7:43 AM ^
@MilkMan I need your level of MSU hate. They played essentially even with 2 Top 5 teams.
Whatever caveats apply, MSU is gonna be a big problem this year.
November 16th, 2022 at 12:10 PM ^
I didn't say they weren't good. They look really solid and a tough out, especially for a team like us who can't shoot consistently. It's cbb in November though. If you want to crown their ass, crown 'em. Your logic is that they played even with these top 5 teams based on preseason rankings. I don't see them as a top 5 team at all.
November 16th, 2022 at 7:56 AM ^
I think its pretty safe to assume that they are a good team. The Sissoko kid has improved alot and he can cause havoc with his ridiculous athleticism and size. Then they have some weapons and shooters.
Not sure how this MSU team with everyone returning isnt ranked preseason and we are. Thats kind of a joke.
November 16th, 2022 at 8:32 AM ^
2 one dimensional teams? I would hate to see what you would say about MIchigan's team if you were being objective.
November 16th, 2022 at 12:08 PM ^
I don't know what to make of us either. The defense will be a huge problem. Looks like we have no consistent shooting yet again too. And yeah, both Kentucky and Gonzaga didn't look like they could threaten from the outside.
November 16th, 2022 at 1:57 PM ^
To be fair, Gonzaga was playing on a boat. That game was always going to be a mess in terms of outside shooting.
November 16th, 2022 at 4:00 PM ^
Very true. To my point, wouldn't that favor the "underdog" in that scenario?
November 17th, 2022 at 1:16 AM ^
Did you watch Gonzaga tonight? Interesting.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:54 PM ^
Izzo is the most overrated coach in my lifetime. He lucked into one national title. He isn’t any better than Tubby Smith or Steve Fisher.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:09 PM ^
Look, I don't like Izzo at all but this is a baaaaaad take.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:15 PM ^
Seriously. Take the maize and blue glasses off.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:25 PM ^
I think he is definitely better than Tubby Smith. Steve Fisher went to three final fours and won a national title in 8 seasons at Michigan so not a terrible comparison. In Izzo's first eight years, he went to three final fours and won a national championship. When it comes to Coach K or Roy Williams, those guys are much more accomplished than Izzo.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:33 PM ^
Fisher also had a real nice run at SDSU.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:32 PM ^
Izzo has been to what, 8 final fours? That doesn’t happen by accident. But he does get a lot of mileage off the one NC he got a generation ago.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:41 PM ^
His best days were from 1999-2010. He was elite in the early 2000s. He was close to elite in the late 2000s. In the past decade, he has still been pretty damn good but they aren't the program that they were. Two final fours in the past 10 years. Same as Michigan.
November 16th, 2022 at 12:18 AM ^
These Izzo comparisons are exactly what everyone used to say about Lloyd
November 15th, 2022 at 10:48 PM ^
He has won exactly one more NC than everyone in here and had played in as many NC games as Beilein. He’s been around a long time and has won a lot, but he has turned a lot 4 and 5 star recruits into 3 stars and has done a lot of less with more. Let’s not forget the incessant whining and player blaming (and occasional player assaulting).
November 16th, 2022 at 1:46 AM ^
Correct. Steve Fisher wouldve been Izzo’s nemesis if the rollover never happened.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:56 PM ^
I feel like that’s a bad sign for Michigan. Going from EMU is good and likely a tournament to maybe they’re not. MSU almost beat #2 and just beat #4 I’d say they’re pretty good which is interesting for an Izzo November team.
November 15th, 2022 at 10:07 PM ^
This might be a little bit of a different situation for MSU than a normal November in that they are basically playing no new players at all, so there's probably less of a learning curve.