Cry All You Want Harbaugh Haters But Warde Ain’t Firing Him
As long as Harbaugh wins 9 to 10 games a season, he’ll be here for as long as he wishes. Might as well go out and scream outside at the grass being green and you want it to be red, it’ll do just as good! Sure I’d love Michigan to beat OSU, but whining and bitching isn’t going to change what happens on the field.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:23 AM ^
Very few are asking he be fired. I think we’re all just coming to terms the reality that maybe this is as good as it gets.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:26 AM ^
That’s what I’m saying.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:34 AM ^
Then why in the world should anybody spend good money or time watching this nonsense?
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:34 AM ^
And yet here you are. Look, it’s a hobby. If you’re that dammed miserable, find a new one.
January 2nd, 2020 at 2:38 PM ^
Being here isn't costing him anything but leisure time. Cold, hard cash is what will make or break Michigan football.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
Because it's fun. Because I'm enjoying setting new traditions with my three sons that hopefully last into the next generation. Because I enjoy football. Because I enjoy watching football with friends.
If you settle into the fact that we're not OSU, Alabama or Clemson and that we're going to win 9, 10 and 11 games a year and every 5-10 years we'll win the B1G, then it will be a lot more fun for you. Try looking to make these games and seasons fun instead of bitching that the team isn't meeting YOUR expectations.
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:14 AM ^
If the current situation is coming anywhere near anyone's expectations, then they need higher standards? What part about this is fun? Looking like idiots against anyone with a pulse? Not sniffing the playoff or even the Rose Bowl?
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:25 AM ^
So instead of just bitching about Harbaugh and he needs to go. Give me a name of an upgrade at coach who we could hire? Harbaugh is a legend here winning 9 - 10 games a year. He doesn’t have the talent of OSU or Alabama and never will. So you fire someone in that situation who are you going to bring in that can do a better job. Stop the bitching and give me names. We still are better then probably 80% of the teams in the country and trust me it could get worse.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:01 AM ^
What expectations? This is what Michigan has always been - a top 15 team that can compete in with the top 5 every four years or so. It's just our bad luck that OSU has been in the top 3 for the past 20 years.
January 2nd, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
Bo Schembechler coached Michigan for 20 years and finished inside the top ten in 17 of those seasons. Gary Moeller won three B1G titles and had 3 top ten finishes in 5 years. Lloyd Carr won a national title, 5 B1G titles, had six top 10 finishes, and was 20-8 against top 10 teams.
The idea Harbaugh has returned Michigan to what they have always been is just a lie. A bold faced lie.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:24 PM ^
I’ve always felt this was the case, but seeing the numbers makes it painfully clear. We still aren’t back.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
In this century (which is now 20 years old), we basically haven't performed better than we have under Harbaugh. The stuff you're talking about is 20-50 years ago. The second half of Carr's tenure was extremely similar to Harbaugh's, the RichRod/Hoke era was obviously a disaster.
It's worth noting as well that there are no more shared Big Ten titles. Also: PSU is in the conference, which wasn't the case for any of Bo's or Mo's titles.
January 2nd, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^
"and every 5-10 years we'll win the B1G"
Maybe if we switch to the West division.....
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:57 PM ^
The coaches you are comparing Harbaugh to did not compete against an OSU coached by Meyer who sold their sole to the devil to be good. Much has changed since those days but UM has not. It’s not really a fair comparison now
January 2nd, 2020 at 1:53 PM ^
If “sniffing” the playoffs is your goal then I submit that M was inches from the playoff in 2016 and an OSU loss from the playoffs in 2018. (And Yes, I know the B1G game victory would still be required.)
So the first step is playing meaningful football in November. Check.
Next step is beating OSU. Pendind.
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:15 AM ^
Win the conference every 5-10 years? More like 20-30.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:42 AM ^
This team isn’t on a trajectory to win the big ten ever, let alone once every 5-10 years...
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:48 AM ^
I still have fun with all the wins we rack up. I remember how miserable it was in the RR and Hoke eras. But you raise a valid point. I stopped watching under Hoke because it stopped being fun and became an active irritant. Maybe you are at that point. Nothing the matter with saying “I’m out. This entertainment doesn’t do it for me anymore.”
my only request to those that make that valid choice is stop bitching.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
Perhaps you should go to a Lions game, find a season ticket holder, and ask them what it means to be a fan. You clearly don’t understand.
January 2nd, 2020 at 2:40 AM ^
“Very few?” Have you read the board today? If you had, you’d know that the Clemson guy who has shown no interest in any other job, the B10 guy who coaches on the easy side and choked away playing in the championship game, or the coach who hasn’t won the B12 are next up for Michigan.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:11 AM ^
Imagine calling two guys who won 11 games at Minnesota and Baylor chokers as if Harbaugh a) has won 11 games himself and b) hasn't been choking in the biggest game of the season every year for the past 5 years. This fan base cracks me the hell up sometimes.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:25 AM ^
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:55 AM ^
Imagine Coach Harbaugh coaching in the B1G West and not winning 11 games. That would be the floor for Michigan with that easy schedule. Michigan would be in Indy every season.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:20 PM ^
Harbaugh wouldn't win 11 games with Minnesota's resources. He can't even win 11 games with Michigan.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:29 PM ^
He'd win 11 games every year in the West with this Michigan team.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:19 AM ^
Exactly.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:09 PM ^
EXACTLY.
...and I'll say it again. Who are you going to get that you know is better.
This board wouldn't be able to agree on THREE realistic candidates that are clear upgrades from Harbaugh.
Throw $8M at Matt Rhule who may be headed for the NFL? Okay. I don't even know if that's an upgrade but who else?
Fact of the matter is...the list is Saban, Swinney, Riley, Smart and whoever coaches OSU right now.
How is Texas feeling? USC? Even ND? There are blue bloods around the country that aren't thrilled. Auburn?
LSU was ready to fire Cajun Hoke the day they hired him and then Joe Brady and Joe Burrow walked through the door.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:24 AM ^
I'm not sure what year, but eventually we'll have to beat osu under Harbaugh to keep his job. There is no way around this.
January 2nd, 2020 at 1:15 AM ^
Yeah. At some point the boosters and media will exert pressure and while the boosters don't run the show like they do at other programs, they do still have sway. Also, at some point soon Warde and Schlissel will completely own the decision to keep Harbaugh even he can't beat OSU and their jobs will be on the line. If attendance ever dipped or the fans turned against the team it would get ugly, no matter how many 9 win seasons are strung together. And there will be other stakeholders like the former players etc who do not have infinite patience. He's got to beat OSU, win some sort of trophy, or get to 11+ wins in the next two years or the seat will get hot.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:02 AM ^
Your attendance aspect hits the nail on the head. Another aspect of that would be if in 2021, vs OSU, their fans have 60-70% attending in the Big House. Apathy, like near the end of the Hoke era will be the ultimate factor.
Yes, Michigan under Harbaugh must beat OSU within the next couple of years.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:05 AM ^
Schlissel will not lose his job over a football coach. This isn't Gordon Gee. Schlissel is primarily concerned with 1) The Hospital 2) The US news and World Report rankings 3) Getting rid of fraternities (s/)
#1 and #2 he is succeeding brilliantly.
He was annoyed that he had to deal with the football situation when he got here.
The reality is, Michigan cannot flourish in the modern college football landscape. Not many can. The current playoff system has relegated College football to who is willing to cheat the most because the money is too great. I heard seats to 1/13 is now in the $2-3000 range. It would have been more had o$u won. The current rules and economics favor cheating. It's the Pete Carroll rule. Cheat your ass off, win championships and if you get caught - take a promotion to the NFL. The athletic department might have to vacate a few wins, maybe one of their championships. . . but they still keep the tax free money.
Bowl ratings are down across the board. I never thought in my lifetime I would see an orange bowl played where the attendance was at half capacity and played by a Florida team who went 11-2. Because of this, the boosters in Gainesville will go the extra mile now to make sure they have all the pieces to compete for the top 4. Why not?
Accomplishments during the regular season are now vastly diminished. A perennial 7-4 team will not be a recognized for an 8 or 9 win season like they used to. That's really sad in a way.
I haven't done the math, but look what's happening here. Harbaugh has a winning percentage in the 70% range and he is trying to recreate a culture that's been eviscerated since Bo died. People can't stop bitching. Be careful what you wish for. This is turning out to be Nebraska 2002.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
Bo 9.2 wins .792%
Lloyd 9.3 wins .753%
JH 9.4 wins .746%
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:25 AM ^
They play more games a year now. Bo would have averaged 10 wins a year.
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:33 AM ^
Maybe you have a point to be osu or clemson but not to be elite. With simply execution alone Harbaugh goes from a 10, 10, 8, 10, 9 win coach to at least 10, 11, 9, 11, 10 and while he still may be 0-5 vs osu we are all feeling a hell of a lot better. With elite discipline and execution with the same talent it doesn't take much mental gymnastics to see his teams going, 11, 11, 10, 11, and 10 wins without cheating or any shenanigans. Purely coaching, strategy and execution.
Maybe that turns them into Oklahoma where you still get beat by the clemsons and osu's of the world but this team with current talent should absolute be in the 1b tier and not 2/2b where they sit today.
January 2nd, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
You're right. And it is about execution. Let's look at a couple of things:
i can think of about 4 games we win if things like the australian punts the ball, to just one PI called against OSU in 2016, to a PI call against the pederasts in Happy Valley.
If those things change the JH's tenure would be seen very differently.
Not vastly stupid lack of execution. But a play here and there.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:11 PM ^
This post is spot on.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:54 PM ^
I agree with most of what you said but not the part about Schissel being immune. In the end, the nature of that job is very much political and public relations oriented. While his priorities are not athletics, the buy-in he needs to achieve his goals requires working with and accommodating people who have a stake in that including many who hold the purse strings. Some care not about football but many do and to the extent he asks for their money he is going to get their 2 cents on football as well. Schissel does not want to spend all of his time apologizing for Harbaugh's failure to beat OSU and win trophies rather than talking about his vision for the university. WuTang was right, cash rules everything whether it is football or fundraising or politics and if the money or political folks have a strong opinion on Harbaugh it will have consequences since those people are willing to use anything as leverage to get what they want.
We might have different views on cheating as well. While there is perhaps something to be said for following the rules that you agree to, is it immoral or unethical to subvert a cartel imposed monopolistic system that deprives labor of the opportunity to obtain free market value? For the unstated goal of enriching other parties, e.g. admin, coaches, TV, the conference etc. Pay for play involves willing parties in the football program, funding via boosters, and players earning more for their labor. Wherein the only party harm is losing games of football for other programs, some of which are already breaking those rules. Amateurism as constructed isn't going to die as quickly as some think because there is too much $ to lose to the players if it did. And the bowl system of the past is not coming back. Given that, personally, I'm 100% onboard going full SMU. It would fail of course because Michigan's culture is too opposed to accepting that path, but I have no objection to that approach in this environment.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:02 PM ^
Your last point is why I am in more favor of the athletic programs to revoke their tax free status. These athletes should be compensated for fair market value. But I think that the value that these athletes generate is actually a greater amount than in simple compensation.
The perquisites that come with being a wolverine are not matched. I have several friends from my time at Michigan who went on to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, etc to complete graduate degrees. They all told me that the most valuable thing that they gain from these programs is access to a network of extremely powerful people to help build their future. They didn't believe it was any harder than Michigan. I have friends who were on the team. All of whom were given opportunities by merely being associated with the program. And these were people who didn't flourish in the NFL.
Ultimately, in the end, it's my conviction that going full SMU is actually more destructive for the athletes than it is for the university. As evidenced by the litany of Buckeyes who flamed out after their careers. Clarett and Katzenmoyer are the immediate examples that come to mind.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:12 PM ^
"He's got to beat OSU, win some sort of trophy, or get to 11+ wins in the next two years or the seat will get hot."
Does a Participation Trophy count?
January 2nd, 2020 at 1:15 AM ^
My guess is that if the other side of that 0 ever got to 10, he would not, in good conscience, be able to continue.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:35 AM ^
I would love for Michigan to beat OSU at some point soon, but honestly, I am happy we do not have to include beating Michigan State and Notre Dame among the list of things Harbaugh needs to work on.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:26 AM ^
So questioning someone's performance, with like facts and stuff:
1-4 bowls
0-5 v osu
etc.,
makes someone a "hater" now?
mmmmkay
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:28 AM ^
It’s the same logic as saying people who support the coach and team are part of the “Harbaugh Cult.”
January 2nd, 2020 at 1:51 AM ^
I don't think you know what the word "logic" means.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:28 AM ^
That’s the thing... he’s doing just the bare minimum to get by. If we had lost to either Army or Iowa, or god forbid, Illinois, and Lord knows we were close, this would be a different conversation.
He’s a 7 or 8 win season away from being canned if he doesn’t have an OSU win before that. No one here wants to see him fired, but he’s not excelling. Today was a great opportunity to change the narrative and Patterson overthrew several open receivers. Harbaugh doesn’t have unlimited time.
January 2nd, 2020 at 2:42 AM ^
Quite a few people here want to see him fired
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:28 AM ^
I don't necessarily want to see him fired just yet but at this point can you really blame people for feeling that way? He's changed offensive coordinators 4 times, he's gone through over a dozen position coaches, he's 0-5 against OSU, 1-4 in bowl games, 2-11 against top 10 teams, and has zero B1G championships. It's the end of year 5 and he hasn't even started a QB he recruited out of high school yet. The gap between OSU and UM isn't getting any smaller in fact it's only getting bigger. There is literally nothing anyone can point to and think this is going to get better.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:46 AM ^
For me the season was summarized by Harbaugh's strategy at the end of the first half vs. Alabama. They had a 2nd-and-short and I'm thinking they would take a shot at the EZ - perfect time. The announcers showed DPJ was open, but it was just a run up the middle to burn clock. Harbaugh was playing for a FG, and yay, he got it. That sets the tone and expectations for the team. No wonder the execution was poor, the players were playing for a close game instead of an outright win. That's what we got for a coach, like it or not.
January 2nd, 2020 at 12:28 AM ^
And to the OP: cry all you want but JH ain't beating OSU ever
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:08 AM ^
2016 was the game but the refs decided differently