Combing of coaches' phones has begun; NCAA interviewing M staff today
From Sam Webb's latest update ($): "I was told the combing of at least some coaches' phones has started, so the hunt is underway to see whether there was any involvement beyond Stalions himself."
In addition, Nicole Auerbach tweeted that "NCAA investigators interviewed members of the Michigan football staff today, a source confirms to @TheAthletic."
Also, Isaiah Hole says that there is an established network within the B1G whereby the designated sign-stealers on each team trade with their friendly counterparts on other teams (a remarkable development that I wasn't aware of).
I actually spoke to a Big Ten source, who gave me a quote — if other people are out there sharing anonymous quotes and these ESPN and SI articles, I can too. So, here is what I learned, ‘Every Sunday, coaches and support staff with mutual connections throughout the conference contact each other to trade not just schematic notes, but also to trade signals. Some of the top teams who consistently trade signals and have very accurate information on common opponents are Michigan, Rutgers, Ohio State, Indiana, and Purdue. Other teams who are decent at it and would always look to trade are Illinois, Northwestern, Maryland, Minnesota, and Penn State. Wisconsin was oblivious to it but is likely no longer with the new staff. Michigan State, Iowa, and Nebraska appear to be oblivious and out of the loop.’
October 26th, 2023 at 4:19 PM ^
More from Isaiah Hole:
The other note I wrote down from my conversation, ‘Each team knows who each team’s [sign-stealer] is, and they have their phone number.’ So, this is a pretty common practice, and clearly this also suggests that teams aren’t necessarily as afraid of Michigan as they are publicly proclaiming — or, I should say, anonymously proclaiming. This gives credence to, ‘Michigan is annihilating everything in its path. What can we do in order to kind of keep Michigan from achieving its goals?’
October 26th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
I agree with this sentiment....
October 26th, 2023 at 4:51 PM ^
October 26th, 2023 at 5:55 PM ^
Agreed. At some point, a writer who didn't publish a story, and thus has not agreed to keep the info confidential, will reveal the name of the PR firm/investigator that approached them with a story like this, and also find a way to tie that firm to another B1G school.
October 26th, 2023 at 6:02 PM ^
What is happening is not simply that firm and isolated leaks. Something else is afoot here. What is happening with Michigan right now is very coordinated. I don’t know entirely who is behind it or what the precise beef being exercised is, but this has been done with the timing and precision of a legit psyc-op. I have honestly considered the possibility that Michigan football is being used as pawn to cool off political tension in the US.
This shit IS NOT normal, and almost certainly not what it seems. I have never seen anything like what has transpired over the last week in the history of sports.
October 26th, 2023 at 6:28 PM ^
I don't think targeting Michigan football is going to cool down political tensions, wtf even gave you that idea lol. This is perfectly normal in a smear campaign, and when orchestrated by a narcissist this is exactly what you expect.
The first clue was they keep dropping headlines one at a time to different media outlets daily at peak news hours. Opposed to an information dump. This is being orchestrated to not only smear Michigan but is being done in an effort to destroy Michigan.
October 26th, 2023 at 7:26 PM ^
I love that you're willing to go here, but wouldn't it be just as easy for a group of former bros from Ohio with the right type of background from their glory days to do the exact same psy-op?
October 26th, 2023 at 10:20 PM ^
If you're gonna go crazy conspiracy theory, the lowest hanging fruit is that the NCAA wants to silence Harbaugh and/or destroy Michigan's credibility because both have been adamant about not paying kids untaxed earnings to play at their school.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:59 PM ^
I think at the end of this Day is basically gonna look like a b*tch. He ratted out another team/individual stretching the rules because he cant handle losing and cant handle being told hes not tough and cant handle the reality that he started on 3rd base
Honestly with Deion on decent terms with Jim apparently I wouldnt be surprised to see Deion call him out first
October 26th, 2023 at 7:59 PM ^
Some of these takes. So OSU hired a firm and Michigan just turned over computer evidence for funsies, that’s your take?
It’s just possible that it was a finding from the Weiss investigation, or the coach whose career was ruined at Michigan decided to take down the program. I’m sure the FBI and University police just missed the evidence when investigating Weiss.
Either is technically possible, but sure let’s go with UM just handing evidence to an OSU investigative firm.
October 27th, 2023 at 6:49 AM ^
Buckeye troll at it again, slow learner...
October 26th, 2023 at 4:38 PM ^
Indiana being a top-tier team with this says all we need to know about how much it helps.
October 26th, 2023 at 4:57 PM ^
To be fair they could be good sign stealers but just don’t have the talent to do anything with it. As Deion said, “You can have someone’s whole game plan. They could mail it to you, but you still gotta stop it.”
October 26th, 2023 at 5:18 PM ^
That's the point.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
This is for real? Wow. Why is NCAA even talking to UM then? OSU talks to UM about signals privately but publicly pretend like they are naive? What a douche move.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:32 PM ^
Ryan Day comes off as an utterly pathetic, desperate figure here. He knows his team is going to get destroyed next month and this seems to be his attempt at damage control.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:42 PM ^
Granted Harbaugh is a master force for the team. Sanctions might result in Harbaugh leaving next season (or being "forced out"). Michigan may be disqualified from playing in the playoffs and maybe in bowl games too.
But if anyone thinks these things will stop Michigan dead in its tracks, stop Michigan's players and coaching staff from playing scorched Earth football against every opponent they face (and doing well at it)...
October 26th, 2023 at 5:56 PM ^
+1 for Judas Priest and a top 5 heavy metal album of all time. The title track also fits perfect as well.
October 26th, 2023 at 7:25 PM ^
Not to mention Electric Eye
October 26th, 2023 at 7:48 PM ^
Yeah, I was thinking Electric Eye:
Always in focus
You can't feel my stare
I zoom into you
But you don't know I'm there
I take a pride in probing
All your secret moves
My tearless retina takes pictures that can prove
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
October 26th, 2023 at 8:20 PM ^
Great in concert too, even now.
October 26th, 2023 at 4:19 PM ^
Some of the top teams who consistently trade signals and have very accurate information on common opponents are Michigan, Rutgers, Ohio State, Indiana, and Purdue. Other teams who are decent at it and would always look to trade are Illinois, Northwestern, Maryland, Minnesota, and Penn State. Wisconsin was oblivious to it but is likely no longer with the new staff
What? What the fuck are we even doing here if this is the case?
October 26th, 2023 at 4:30 PM ^
Grinding axes, clutching pearls. You know, the usual.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:54 PM ^
Where's my fainting couch ... ?
October 26th, 2023 at 4:32 PM ^
Some of the top teams who consistently trade signals and have very accurate information on common opponents are Michigan, Rutgers, Ohio State, Indiana, and Purdue.
this does disprove the theory that having other teams' signs is a significant advantage...
October 26th, 2023 at 4:35 PM ^
Wrong.
When they said share signals you misinterpreted the facts.
What was meant was Indiana, Purdue, and Rutgers all offer up their signals to anyone who asks for them on Sundays to encourage ritualized beatings that have become a part of their program culture.
#nospinzone
#thankyousirmayihaveanotherL
October 26th, 2023 at 4:49 PM ^
That TCU sign stealing proved incredibly effective
October 26th, 2023 at 4:35 PM ^
Remember all the excuses we heard after 42-27? They just found another one, and they're pretty fucking excited.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:44 PM ^
They're going to get some delicious morsels like they always do. And they'll choke on them like they always do.
October 26th, 2023 at 4:47 PM ^
To play devil's advocate, it doesn't say other teams are doing in person scouting, just sharing the signals that they've learned. Though I find it hard to believe that if the sharing is that elaborate other team's aren't doing this.
Regardless, if this news actually hits the mainstream, what this does is greatly downplays how much advantage this gave Michigan.
My dream is finding out that most of the Big Ten is doing this and we get conclusive proof that OSU was behind the PI even though they do in person scouting as well. That's the only thing that would completely flip the court of public opinion away from Michigan and onto OSU. Seems like a pipe dream though.
October 26th, 2023 at 4:59 PM ^
If Purdue's coaching staff is telling you what they observed Maryland do in their game, or giving you the unedited All-22 of Maryland's sideline or pre-snap movement, does that mean you're using Purdue's staff as "in-person scouting" of the Maryland game?
Does it change if you "pay" them by giving them the equivalent information for Rutgers?
October 26th, 2023 at 5:23 PM ^
I’ll bite on this. How is this that different from what Michigan is accused of doing? These other sign stealers were at the games watching specifically for signals. And these dudes were in the sidelines not in the stands.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:35 PM ^
This.
October 26th, 2023 at 4:56 PM ^
This is the single biggest piece of info to date.
October 26th, 2023 at 4:56 PM ^
The guy quotes a Big Ten source.
I have 2 questions here:
- There's the obvious question "how does this guy know the specifics of what 14 different schools are doing --- what are his sources?"
- His source works for the conference, and his source supposedly knows that some of the conference schools are trading signals and information, and some aren't. E.g., his source knows that some schools are gaining a in-the-gray-area-if-not-the-black-area-of-the-rules competitive advantage versus others. Shouldn't this Big Ten person be addressing this internally already? The Big Ten's own mission statement talks about emphasizing integrity, fairness and competiveness.
Your questions at the end aren't wrong --- but they do presuppose the Big Ten source is correct. And I'd be curious on the answers to my own questions before presupposing that.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:05 PM ^
Well, NittanyFan, do you notice a trend? Nobody asks questions anymore. Look at all the spewing in the last few days. Glad someone on UM side is sharing their thoughts and not necessarily waiting for getting another source. This is the new world we live in.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:43 PM ^
An intellectually curious mind always ask questions.
There's a lot of noise and spewing out there (I'll be blunt, my intuition says that 80%+ of what Isaiah Hole said is jibberish, at best) --- but in the big picture, the below is true:
In every "he said, she said, they said" situation, a few key folks definitely do know most if not all of the truth. In PSU's case 10 years ago: Graham Spanier, JoePa, Ray Gricar (probably, and what a question mark he still remains, but nobody has seen him in 20 years). In the Mel Tucker kerfuffle: both him and Brenda Tracy. In this case: Connor Stalions, maybe a few others.
Whether we ever hear the truth right from the source? Probably and usually not.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:46 PM ^
"An intellectually curious mind always ask questions." - NittanyFan
Can't wait to see this quote hanging in middle school classrooms all over the country!
October 26th, 2023 at 6:02 PM ^
That's all fine well and good. But it's as UMForLife said, this is a PR battle. And it's as Hole said, apparently we're not doing on the record sourcing these days. So go ahead and question what you like--I'm assuming you're questioning all the anonymous sources that have come out before today as well.
October 26th, 2023 at 6:24 PM ^
You should put a question mark after truth. You had two answers, but only asked 1 question. Yes, I’m serious. And your two answers were kind of opposite. So to be clear, please make sure your posts are accurate and concise.
/s
October 26th, 2023 at 5:25 PM ^
There you go being reasonable again. I would have thought you'd have learned your lesson around here.
Also, if you're connected, could you ask Franklin's play caller to re-dial up the script he used against OSU...it was awesome, and we're nervous he will unleash it again. It would be very gentlemanly of them to retain their signals from that game as well it it's not any bother.
Thanks in advance!
PS - Isaiah Hole's sources say if you guys want to be ultra cool again (not just old school cool), you need to step up your advance on-site scouting. Everybody's doing it, other than Nebraska, Iowa and MSU apparently...dweebs...they're still inside wondering where everyone went out to play.
By the way, we're switching to Navajo Code Talkers and calling our plays in with megaphones...OSU's toast. Go Blue!
October 26th, 2023 at 5:55 PM ^
Bad day - I need to step away, I suppose. :-)
As for Franklin, my sources tell me he's torn up the OSU game plan: his analysis indicates PSU ran the ball way too much against the Buckeyes. All pass plays it is!
Unless, that is, PSU gets sacked on consecutive 1st-and-2nd downs. Then you can expect a draw play on 3rd-down-and-33. Followed by a timeout, before a punt on 4th-down-and-32.
October 26th, 2023 at 7:07 PM ^
Would that 4th and 32 be from the opponents 35 yd line or PSU’s? If it’s from the opponents then he’ll definitely punt, if from PSU’s then there’s an even chance he goes for it. 🤷♂️
October 26th, 2023 at 7:18 PM ^
I have to call you out. You missed the "if the score is 28-0, he'll kick a Field Goal after the timeout" joke!
October 26th, 2023 at 5:30 PM ^
Just so you know, Isaiah Hole is not some random guy. He’s a major Michigan blogger/reporter who runs WolverinesWire, USA Today’s Michigan blog.
October 26th, 2023 at 5:48 PM ^
I know who he is. And, at least for the moment, I think what he said is 80%+ nonsense.
FWIW, I also think 80%+ of what Jay Paterno, Doug Lesmerises, any White House Press Secretary since 2017, and Jim Cramer says is nonsense too. At least with Isaiah Hole, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, ask questions first. The latter deserve no benefit of the doubt.
October 26th, 2023 at 4:59 PM ^
Ryan Day needs an excuse for losing to Michigan.
October 26th, 2023 at 4:59 PM ^
The more info that has come out today specifically, the more this feels like an extremely calculated and targeted PR campaign that at its core has no legs
October 26th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
Trying to repair Ryan Days fragile ego
October 26th, 2023 at 5:04 PM ^
Called it!