CBSSports - Nice Rip on Kelly & the Current State of CF

Submitted by TheNannMan on December 1st, 2021 at 3:39 AM

Dodd of all people getting after the state of college football, can’t say I disagree: 

”While we're at it,  congratulations everyone. This season's coaching carousel has indeed become bigger than the games in the biggest week of the season.

Maybe this is simply a glimpse of the future. The NCAA as we know it will soon be dead. These new contracts reflect a growing gap between millionaire coaches and the (still) underpaid labor force that plays for them.”

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/brian-kelly-selfishly-leaving-for-lsu-with-notre-dame-in-playoff-race-puts-sports-hypocrisy-on-display/

crg

December 1st, 2021 at 6:02 AM ^

The problem is the money - period.

A public university should never have its highest paid employee (by a ridiculously large margin) be a sport coach that has nothing to do with the actual mission purpose of the institution.  "Paying" the athletes isn't going to help anything - it only further minimizes & marginalizes the relevance of academics in the lives of these student-athletes (not to mention how absurd it is for the student-athletes in "non-revenue" sports).

Just look at where the greater part of this money ultimately derives - not gate sales or merchandising, but the media rights - which ultimately comes from advertising.  School activities at public universities should not be treated as a massive marketing billboard - with all the revenue generated used to further expand the monetized athletic enterprise.  How nice for the general student body that has to actually pay for school, with ever increasing tuition that can leave them racked with tremendous debt, while others get a full ride (with under-the-table-money on top of the now legal NIL money) even though they may have zero interest in graduating or even attending class (obviously not true for all the athletes, and varies by institution... but we all know it holds true in many cases).

The NCAA is not the problem, the money is.

MadMonkey

December 1st, 2021 at 6:19 AM ^

I have posted similar thoughts before and agree wholeheartedly.   I can clearly envision a future schism in college athletics related to the revenue sports where a group of P5 universities breaks off to return to a primarily amateur model for football and basketball.  This is the Ivy league approach, but at greater scale.   I would love to see such an effort led by schools such as Michigan, Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke, Washington, Wisconsin, and similar schools where the academic mission has primacy while the athletic heritage and support is constant on a large scale.

College athletics as "NFL/NBA-lite" is not that interesting and much harder to invest in emotionally.   It leads to the crazy system we have now.    

Kevin13

December 1st, 2021 at 8:46 AM ^

I feel the same way Madmonkey and wish this exact scenario would play out. Let’s keep the amateur status in college athletics and have kids who care about getting an education and still playing a sport because they love it and their school going.  If the SEC and other schools want to make an NFL lite go do it and stop the whole charade of these kids be students and going to class   Money is slowly ruining this sport and it’s just getting worse 

Don

December 1st, 2021 at 10:19 AM ^

"I would love to see such an effort led by schools such as Michigan, Notre Dame, Virginia, Duke, Washington, Wisconsin, and similar schools where the academic mission has primacy while the athletic heritage and support is constant on a large scale."

However laudable this vision is, the chances of this happening are literally zero.

MadMonkey

December 1st, 2021 at 10:43 AM ^

[However laudable this vision is, the chances of this happening are literally zero.]

Maybe the chances are a bit better than "literally zero"?  Although I will concede that the chances are very low if the assessment period is, for example, 5 - 10 years.  For example, here is the AP Top 25 from 1921:

Almost all of those schools still play football as part of the NCAA, but many went a very different direction.  Which direction was better in hindsight?   It depends on how your university defined its mission.

MgofanNC

December 1st, 2021 at 12:32 PM ^

So rally for change that will take some form 100 years from now? The world will change in so many ways in 100 years that trying to effect specific change from now to then is a complete waste of time. 

Think of all the massive ways that College Football has changed since 1921... this is just such an absurd take. 

 

Also, how does a 3-4 Illinois team get ranked at all let alone ahead of a bunch of other teams. 

truferblue22

December 1st, 2021 at 11:04 AM ^

Not to mention, Michigan Football would become so blindingly irrelevant that the Big House would look like it did after the weather break vs Utah in 2014 -- only all game, every game. 

Say goodbye to Harbaugh, Howard, and the seven 1st round picks on the hockey team. Remember the University of Chicago? Of course not, because none of us are over 100 -- which is the last time they were relevant. 

I like this idea in *theory*, but in practice we would lose all of (waves arms frantically) THIS. No blog, no games on TV, no butts in seats, no B1G Championship game, no playoff show -- nothing. 

And let's not forget how a successful football team brings more kids to the school. It's marketing for the university itself. The aforementioned University of Chicago is a premier learning institution, yet ask someone in California which school is better, OSU or U of C. They're probably picking OSU because they've actually heard of it. 

TennesseeMaize

December 1st, 2021 at 6:26 AM ^

Fans contribute to this. If you own any Michigan football swag or memorabilia, you’ve contributed to the frenzied money grab that is college athletics. This is primarily football and somewhat basketball driven, which is why they get paid the most. I venture to guess that most on here don’t own a Michigan rowing or lacrosse jersey. 

MadMonkey

December 1st, 2021 at 7:20 AM ^

You are right.   That is why my Michigan fan purchases in the past 10 years or so have been school branded items that list a non-revenue sport (track), my college major (political science), the grad library, or my college (LSA).   Around the same time, we also discontinued our families purchase of football season's tickets that had been in the family 40 years.    

None of this is meant to disparage anyone else's support of Michigan by purchasing items for revenue sports or wanting Michigan to keep up in the college sports arms race.   Who doesn't love the Nike/Jordan swag?  I still pay to go to games, watch Michigan games with plenty of commercials that feed the beast, and want our staff and athletes to be at the highest compensation levels.   

However, I also want Michigan to be "leaders and best".  Leadership often requires painful and unpopular choices.   At this juncture in college athletics, I would love to see Michigan lead a break from the current trends in football and basketball.   My guess is that we will have a lot of university presidents, boards, and athletic directors embrace an end of the money madness. 

WFNY_DP

December 1st, 2021 at 9:25 AM ^

Something like this is going to have to happen organically and university-wide from the bottom up.

 

For instance, MSU imploring faculty and staff to *volunteer* at dining halls because they couldn't staff them while then turning around and pumping a booster for $95 million (or some large subset of that amount, anyway) to pay one employee smacks of a problem that affects the entire University.

I'm on the staff of a small liberal arts university, and if we had someone in our advancement office pumping an alumni donor for something that frivolous while many of us haven't gotten COL raises in multiple years, there would be all out mutiny. If I worked at an R1 and was constantly having to write grant proposals to fund my research, and then a mediocre football coach waltzes in and gets $95 million with a stamp of approval from the board, you'd better believe I'm making a giant stink about it.

THAT is what it's going to take. If the entirety of your faculty and staff stand up and say "FUCK THIS WE'RE NOT DOING IT ANYMORE" something would change. It would take time, and something that cataclysmic won't be pretty, but that's really the only way it changes: from the ground up.

Don

December 1st, 2021 at 11:13 AM ^

I believe the resistance you envision will occur first at smaller public non-P5 schools like those in the MAC. None of those athletic programs come remotely close to being self-supporting, and are only kept alive by dollars taken from the general university budgets.

As government support for higher education at the state level continues to decline—and it will—the financial pressures resulting from operating scholarship athletic programs—particularly football— are going to produce open conflicts with the academic programs that are the reason public universities exist in the first place.

MgofanNC

December 1st, 2021 at 12:25 PM ^

As a member of a mid sized public university getting a bunch of faculty (many of whom are fairly well paid... not football HC well paid but certainly 60-100K/year and Tenured well paid) to in unison be outraged and demand change is highly unlikely. Also, who would they be yelling at? The booster can do what he/she pleases with his her money. Is the faculty meant to reject the money for the HC out of spite? 

I think it is also worth noting there are really only a handful of schools we are talking about here. Very few schools are putting up 100 million dollar HC contracts (this is mostly the elite of the P5) and many of those schools make a decent amount of money off their football programs. But even so, I don't think most of a HC's pay check is coming out of the tuition pool for these schools. I'm certainly not an expert on how these contracts are funded, but I highly doubt we can tie increased tuition cost to the new contract for X coach. 

Red is Blue

December 1st, 2021 at 9:10 AM ^

An academics first league is interesting.  It would require strict and enforceable academic requirements for athletes for both admissions and continued participation.  For that you need an oversight authority with both the will and the mechanisms to enforce those rules.  One huge hurdle the NCAA faces (besides lack of interest) is the inability to compel an enitity/individual to provide information (that is, subpoenae like powers).  Not a lawyer, but I'm geussing you could write bylaws that emulates subpoenae powers (ie force entities and their representatives to provide requested information or face seroius negative consequences).

MgofanNC

December 1st, 2021 at 6:56 AM ^

Agree that money is a big issue. I would say, though, that the NCAA is also part of the problem. Used to be that they would actually punish school that cheated the rules (the infamous death penalty). That is no longer the case and hasn't been for a long time which has lead to a wild west approach in recruiting. The leadership void of the NCAA has led to a playoff that has done a lot to break the sport, has completely bungled the NIL stuff, has done nothing to address the destruction of the conferences (which continues to be terrible for the sport). Of course, a lot of this is connected to money chasing too (none of which goes to the athletes). 

At the very least, the NCAA has just stood by while the sport rips itself apart and has made itself look entirely foolish in the process. 

grumbler

December 1st, 2021 at 8:30 AM ^

The NCAA is an association of schools, and so cannot act against the interests of a majority of the schools.  In this case, this means that rules are not enforced because the universities don't want them enforced.  Limits on transfers or salaries or whatever don't exist except where the schools want them to exist.

The "leadership void" in intercollegiate athletics exists because it was designed into the structure of the NCAA when it was created.

I'm not sure whether the schools could ever accept an arrangement like that of pro football with a commissioner appointed to act in the interest of the sport and not the "owners," but that's the only way out of the current mess that I can see.

brad

December 1st, 2021 at 8:31 AM ^

You can't and shouldn't stop money from flowing into something valuable.  If the universities banded together to take less money for broadcasting rights, that money would still exist and just be even more unfairly kept out of the hands that generate it.

Money itself is not a problem.  The institutionalized hoarding of money by coaches and administrators perpetuated by an unjust removal of rights for a high percentage of the people who generate it is a problem.  The NCAA is a sideshow to this, but it's influence is on the wrong side, so it is a part of the problem.

You're also wrong to argue against the concept of a full scholarship for athletes.  Why should athletes who provide value to their school while often coming from disadvantaged backgrounds not be given a scholarship?

Carpetbagger

December 1st, 2021 at 8:53 AM ^

Agreed, money is never the problem in itself. Capitalism is just the acknowledgement of human behavior, rather the denial of said behavior, as in most other theories.

Regulating that flow of money is possible, but the conferences gutted the NCAA so the regulation is vested in the conferences and schools, who have a vested interest in increasing the flow of money to themselves, not restraining it.

Best case would be some sort of divesting of athletics from the schools, so neither supported the other, except in aggregate, such as total college athletic profits going back to schools in some sort of pro-rata arrangement.

Carpetbagger

December 1st, 2021 at 11:03 AM ^

No one seems to care tuition keeps going up. For one thing, assuming you don't go to an expensive university for something like Social Work and Teaching (fine degrees, but poor pay), nearly any amount of money paid is worth it financially. Secondarily, how many people actually pay their own way? If you aren't paying as you go, the money is unlikely to matter.

Given no one cares about the price of tuition, there is no incentive to restrain it.

I'm assuming if athletics is severed from the institutions, that also breaks the amateurism link, so these athletes could be paid a standard wage + Tuition + NIL.

crg

December 1st, 2021 at 11:10 AM ^

There has been dramatic backlash against the rising cost of school over the past decade or more.  Many schools are having to cut budget in order to keep tuition from rising so much that it dents admission numbers.

As far as "how many people actually pay" - have you seen the numbers on the shear amount of federal student loan debt?

crg

December 1st, 2021 at 9:38 AM ^

Again - these are (mostly) *public universities* founded, by law, with a specific purpose of academic education.  They are not for-profit enterprises that should try to maximize the "return value" to themselves.  They are a *public service* by definition.

I agree that admins hoarding money to themselves is a problem - so let's address that problem instead of simply trying to add more money to the equation (while simultaneously creating a glaring disparity in how students are treated - simply because of which student organizations/activities they choose to join).  This is not a professional sporting franchise - the football team was *founded* by students on campus, just like every other student sport & organization that they can join.

To your point about scholarships - it is absolutely questionable to give select students a full ride (which, all together, can be nearly $100k/yr for some) simply because of their physical abilities.  You mention that some (and the key word is some) of these student-athletes come from disadvantaged backgrounds... which is why the scholarships should be based upon economic need.  What type of message does it give to children that they can work hard and study their a**es off and receive little-to-no financial support yet someone from the same school, with lesser academic merit, gets a full ride just because they call "play ball"?

WestQuad

December 1st, 2021 at 9:02 AM ^

 "zero interest in graduating or even attending class"

Cardale Jones aside I think a lot of or even most players want to get an education.  A bigger part of the problem is schools like UNC who cheat their athletes out of an education.  UNC should never be allowed to have a sports program again. 

It irks me that Michigan discourages the football players from being Engineering students because it is too hard to do both.  

Pro sports are a lottery, but your effort buys you more tickets.  If I was on the bubble of being able to make $1M+ a year right out of college that is the only thing I would focus on.  So yeah,  the money is sort of incompatible with academics.

crg

December 1st, 2021 at 9:43 AM ^

This is why I said this is not a blanket statement.  There are numerous great examples of kids who are damned good athletes yet also want to learn and make the most of the opportunity.  I just point out that there are so many obvious (and some less obvious) cases where they clearly are not there to "play school"... which is why there needs to be an alternate path for non-academic football career development.  Open up more starting spots for the dedicated students that might otherwise be relegated to walk-on (or club sport) spots.

Don

December 1st, 2021 at 11:03 AM ^

"It irks me that Michigan discourages the football players from being Engineering students because it is too hard to do both."

Can you cite a specific instance of the current Michigan football program under Harbaugh discouraging specific players from pursuing Engineering studies?

Buy Bushwood

December 1st, 2021 at 10:56 AM ^

The SEC cares not about your ethic.  And major universities are banging at the gates to get in.  What's crazy to me, and I say this as a lifelong college football fan, is this model of university sports teams, v. club teams in the community. I've lived all over the world and have never seen a nation that has university sports, except, to a limited degree, in South Africa. To me, the club-level is a better model. 

el segundo

December 1st, 2021 at 11:02 AM ^

I agree with everything until your last sentence, with which I partially agree.

Since Miles Brand became its president (and possibly before), the NCAA has embraced the idea that revenue-generating college sports must be a "massive marketing billboard" that generates revenue for the support of the non-revenue sports and, possibly, the university's general fund. Brand explicitly and aggressively applied this conception of the athletic department to his conception of the entire university. For Brand, money-making departments of the university (the hospital and medical system, the academic departments that produce valuable IP, the football and/or men's basketball team, et al.) should be organized to maximize their ability to produce revenue for the university, which would be used to subsidized "money-losing" departments (like all of the humanities departments and most social sciences, et al.).

The NCAA staff and leadership, including Mark Emmert, venerate Brand and have adopted his vision of college athletics as the justification for the existence of the NCAA and for its policy approaches, which, always and everywhere, are tailored to protect the economic value of the NCAA's product, not to provide "student-athletes" with a good experience. The NCAA views the maximization of revenue at all costs as a necessary aspect of its service to universities.

For what it's worth, I think that Brand's conception of college athletics and of the university as a whole is widely accepted across academia and is the source for many of the worst problems associated with contemporary higher education. I came to Michigan for grad school in the mid-80s and have lived in and around Ann Arbor for just about the entire time since. UM has changed dramatically since then, often for the worse, and I attribute most of those changes to its aggressive pursuit of revenue-generating enterprises, both athletic and academic, at the expense of its core mission of educating students and developing knowledge. 

This is why athletic departments everywhere try to ignore allegations of sexual misconduct against athletes (see Robert Anderson, MSU, OSU). This is why university administration does the same thing when there are sexual misconduct or other scandals in the academic departments or university administration (see Martin Philbert). Shameful or problematic conduct has to be swept under the rug because, above all, the university's all-important commercial functions and brand image must be protected. These are dramatic examples, but they do represent a broader problem of sacrificing the interests of students and staff at the altar of revenue.

From my perspective, the NCAA isn't the main problem; the NCAA is just one instance of a broader problem with how the university understands its purpose, and that problem is money.

Dunder

December 1st, 2021 at 7:47 AM ^

I do agree with much of the sentiment, and this isn't the only national commentary bashing Kelly.

But, I find it fascinating that (in some case by the very same authors) Riley is being lauded for his choice. If the difference is 'in the playoff' hunt then we have to convince ourselves that Riley wasn't aware of USC before Bedlam. Nonsense.

And talk about ugly, USC didn't just buy a coach they pretty much directly bought that coaches next two recruiting classes. 

If there are to be guardrails on this it involves having some mechanism to enforce dead periods and anti-tampering rules as well as restriction on recruits and transfers choices. I don't see that sort of cohesion across all of CFA ever happening. No way the SEC agrees to any such rules. 

Blue Vet

December 1st, 2021 at 7:56 AM ^

"In a way, it's hard to feel sympathy for Notre Dame, which has acted in its own self-interest for decades as a powerful independent."

In a way?! ND has stayed independent for the same money-raking reason Kelly left.

Carpetbagger

December 1st, 2021 at 8:55 AM ^

Howard, I wouldn't be surprised. The guy spent 20 years in the NBA, only he would know if he aspires to that, and he isn't going to tell us.

Harbaugh, I think if admin didn't show support he might leave, otherwise no.

Edit: but to your larger point, yes. That's one of the reasons I didn't sour on Harbaugh like so many others have.

snarling wolverine

December 1st, 2021 at 11:16 AM ^

Going to the pros is different.  A guy might want to try his hand at the highest level. 

Going to another college program, though, that’s a slap in the face.  Bill Frieder is not remembered fondly for that.

(Granted, Frieder himself went to school here, but he’s the exception that proves the rule, a coach who wanted more money and less NCAA compliance.  Most guys from Michigan accept the way we do things.)

Primo

December 1st, 2021 at 8:30 AM ^

Kelly is an ass, no doubt, but one reason why the situation is what it is is because of the new early signing period in December.  If coaches wait to move until after the entire season plays out, then they could miss out on being able to put together a recruiting class.  Something there has to give.

iMBlue2

December 1st, 2021 at 8:39 AM ^

The money getting thrown around is insane. Should be able o create some sort of trust for players that fully matures upon graduation.  

Michrider41

December 1st, 2021 at 8:45 AM ^

Make the NFL get its own minor league   The richest professional league by far is the only one that depends on college's for talent.  Get the guys that don't want to play school out of our college's and into the NFL G league.  Just think the positive effect that would have on college campuses and on college football.  The same 5 or 6 most obvious violators wouldn't be in the college playoff every year because it would level the playing field.  

MarcusBrooks

December 1st, 2021 at 8:49 AM ^

thinking about msu and Tucker and the donor who paid his big contract, interesting to have 1 person who basically owns msu's head football coach to the tune of $95 million. 

that is a tough spot msu's AD is in if that guy ever wants to influence what is going on with the program.