Brian - I agree with your assessment, but where do you stand on changes
I agree with most of Brian's assessment of our football program vs. the elite.
I believe Harbaugh is a really good coach with some flaws, but he has restored us to where we essentially were in the Carr years...minus the B1G championships since OSU has gone full on elite, and the changes to conference structure, divisions, etc.
I agree that OSU, Bama, Clemson, UGA, LSU are football factories and Auburn and Oregon will continue to try to replicate the bagmen, no school model. I agree that no coach would be able to consistently go 11-1 or 12-0 at UM given the current administrative hurdles we put upon ourselves in recruiting and academic expectations we have. In many ways, I feel we are in the same boat as Notre Dame and Washington - two teams not willing to go full on football factory, but also not running the Stanford or Northwestern "student first then athlete" model. So we are very much operation in no man's land, hence averaging out to 9-4 or 10-3 seasons, unable to be elite year after year, and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle once every 5 years (2016 we were fully loaded, but Speight got injured and refs jobbed us). Therefore, we are not a "reload" program, but a constantly "retain + rebuild" program.
I did a poll on here about a month back that asked the community if they wanted to go full on football factory to compete with the elite, or if we should continue on our current path, waiting and hoping for the occasional dream season (1997), and accepting that we are a good but not great program. It came out to 60% in favor of football factory, 40% in favor of status quo + whatever we could do to improve within the NCAA guidelines. To be fair, the question was asked the week after another OSU debacle, so that may have skewed the results towards football factory due to our general frustrations as fans healing from a recent dong punch.
My question is for Brian and the writers on this blog, since I hear and agree with much of what you are saying about what college football has become. Essentially, I have 2 questions.
1) Do you want Michigan to go full on football factory and embrace the business that is college football head on, and do whatever is necessary to compete and become one of the top 5 premier programs in the country? Bagmen, online classes, essentially abandon the "student athlete" model, and just win?
2) How easy would this actually be to accomplish? Bama and OSU have been running football factories for decades. I have to believe schools like Tennessee, Miami, FSU, UF, Ole Miss, maybe Texas, etc are trying to run football factories but can't achieve elite status for whatever reason. Why should we believe Michigan would actually be successful (start winning more, and not get caught) if we tried to run a football factory?
And of course, Happy New Year to all.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:12 PM ^
My money right now is that the "new" Section 1 is one and the same as the previous incarnations.
Though it's been awhile since I've seen him post on the board, there's something immediately very familiar with the writing style and the argumentiveness we're already seeing from him.
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:44 PM ^
I said it elsewhere in another post but based on his posting history he's clearly an alter ego or a reincarnation of someone who experienced the banhammer. His first post said he was a long time lurker and first time poster and since then he's churned out an incredible number of comments in his first 24 hours on the board for someone who lurked for that long.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:18 PM ^
Uofm basketball may be using bagmen. At the very least Howard is willing to entertain certain people that seemed to disgust Beilein.
And yes I hope all Uofm sports go full on paying players and whatever else is necessary. If a kid wants to come here and be a real student, awesome, give them every opportunity. But if they don’t come to play school, that’s great too.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:03 PM ^
Agreed... and I don't understand why this is so reprehensible to some UM fans. Their ideals seem to be nostalgic and attached to a bygone era of student athletes. The game and athletic departments at universities have moved on and left us in the dust.
At one point in history Michigan was on the cusp of athletics in regards to how we structured successful athletic departments; innovating the entire genre of college football... that bar has now been raised, and we need to catch up. Our ridiculously antiquated ideals of following the straight and narrow path are the problem.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:28 PM ^
Fuck ethics and fuck rules and fuck morals. Fuck doing the right thing, ever. Tonya Harding had the right idea, she just used the wrong weapons. If you can't beat Ohio State, club Justin Fields in the fucking kneecap. Or shoot him in it. Whatever.
P.S. This is sarcasm. It's just sad when ideals and morals and following rules are "antiquated" and only winning matters. Seriously.....if you want to break a couple rules, why stop there and not just break EVERY rule?
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^
I think there's a massive difference between paying guys outside the NCAA purview and shooting someone in the kneecap...just saying
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:43 PM ^
You get it. So does SalvatoreQuattro.
lostwages does not, along with most non-alumni.
Michigan today is dedicated to recruiting kids who will at the very least show up to class and make a legitimate effort to be a Michigan student. That makes me proud of the team and the department.
If this means we never reach "elite" status in football, then so be it. I'm a Michigan alumnus first, a football fan second.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:20 PM ^
As an alumnus, I am all for paying the players. Conflating the idea of following current NCAA rules with morality or ethical superiority is a false premise.
Rules and laws are often unethical or have nothing to do with purity, and many would argue that the NCAA and the NFL have set up a morally bankrupt system that exploits athletes in an unpaid minor league training system.
Arguing that you want the student-athlete model to continue at UM is fair and an opinion shared by many, but citing morals and ethics as the reason is a straw man basis for said opinion.
Shitting on non-alumni because they disagree with your view and proclaiming it is because they understand not the virtues nor the values of our prestigious university is an empty argument formed from a false sense of superiority.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:35 PM ^
I'm not an alumni but yet I found myself in agreement with the vast majority of what he posted (AND did not feel "shit on" at all).
And yes, there is something to be said for following the rules, whether it be in football/ athletics or in life in general. I most certainly prefer our athletes to first and foremost also be students and good citizens.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:52 PM ^
I'm an alumnus and I support the players getting some kind of financial compensation. There is so much money in CFB that not paying players seems abusive. Yeah, I know, they get a scholarship, but that completely ignores the market value of some of the players.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:19 PM ^
If you think anything other than moral relativity and post modern thought is what the vast vast vast majority of professors at Michigan, UVA, every other University in the nation believe you are naive. I say, if you believe in moral relativity, then start acting like you do. No objective morality? Cool! If it isn't hurting anyone, go get some football players and make our program better.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:03 PM ^
Probably because Michigan, if it went the dirty way again, would have to vacate like Fab Five and like Louisville. UM is not Urban Meyer—they cannot lie about abuse and tattoos or practice too many hours.
Plus: you may as well stop pretending the fight song means anything if you want to bring in Nick Nolte to coach Shaq and Penny.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:58 PM ^
Moeller had four losses both years he coached, Carr's first two years were four losses each. Most of his years had 3 losses. This is who we are, minus beating OSU
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:13 PM ^
That's only half the narrative though... you're willfully not giving the full story.
It was virtually unheard of back then to go undefeated in a season, whereas more and more teams are doing that these days; and consistently.
The fact of the matter is that Michigan hasn't kept up with the times.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:35 PM ^
Who are these “more and more teams” that are going undefeated?
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:42 PM ^
College football, in particular recruiting, has changed a lot, even since Carr's last years. Alabama, Clemson, OSU and LSU were not quite the factories they are now.
It isn't just recruiting...Clemson plays a weak schedule, as does Alabama aside from 1-2 games/year. That's one thing you have to give OSU credit for, as they play essentially the same schedule as us.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:41 PM ^
imagine football being one and done. boom. bagmen advantage damaged. players leaving after frosh and soph seasons would crush the bagman teams.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:08 PM ^
Are you assuming that Bo, Moeller, and Carr ran programs as "clean" as Harbaugh? Harbaugh caught flack for being critical of Michigan's academic standards back in 2007.
Are Michigan's academic standards in 2019 more stringent than they were in 2007?
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:18 PM ^
So UM offering every recruit a free trip to RIO isn't "playing dirty"?
And where is the proof of all those mythical bagmen today (not talking about the past)? Anyone got proof? (not allegations)
Wisconsin blew us out with 2 and 3 star kids, Army nearly beat us at home with NO star athletes
End of debate for anyone with a brain- its coaching
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:27 PM ^
Proof?
The SI bagman article.
Ole Miss under Hugh Freeze pulling crazy 5* talent / Treadwell with a pic of a wad of cash and girls.
Chase Young (Best player in America, except not doing a thing in the last 3 games of the season - overly hyped by Fox commentators, but I digress) receiving a "loan" from a "friend" and missing the all important Rutgers and Maryland games.
Pryor, Clarrett, etc under Tressell
Reggie Bush
etc, etc, etc
Peppers and Rashan Gary saying they were offered $ by other schools
If you don't think certain schools are playing dirtier than others, you're really clueless.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:42 PM ^
Most people who’d support going full factory probably didn’t actually attend Michigan because being a full factory clearly goes against the school’s larger ethos. It’s a great university first. Period.
January 3rd, 2020 at 2:05 AM ^
To answer Section 1’s question: It’s because having the best recruits gives you a much bigger advantage in football than basketball.
In basketball, as Calipari has said, if the opponent hits half its threes, you’re taking an L. In football, the current state of on-field rules (regarding pick plays and linemen downfield) allow the teams with the best athletes to score 35+ every game, and it’s on you to try to match them against their elite defenses.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^
Why is it in a sport that is just as dirty if not more so Michigan has no trouble competing with the best programs in the nation but it's just not possible in football? And by not possible we're talking under this current coach right because Bo Schembechler, Gary Moeller, and Lloyd Carr all had a heck of a lot more success than Harbaugh is having. It's not a noble thing to play by the rules within a system that everyone knows is courrupt. Either Um should lead the charge to change the sytem or get on board with skirting its rules it so very clearly doesn't care about, because the excuse making from academics to bagmen is beyond lame at point.
I think it's pretty clear by now Harbaugh can beat the teams he has more talent than and can't the ones he doesn't, so no amount of coaching and scheme changes is going to tangibly make any difference. So the solution would be get a coach in here who can recruit at a higher level or one that can coach up players better.
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:00 PM ^
Basketball recruiting geography much more favorable to M than football probably biggest reason
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:05 PM ^
Please. Brian hasn’t looked at the board in at least two years.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:19 PM ^
He looks at it.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:00 PM ^
I was going to post a snarky picture about Brian’s lack of engagement but Nazi photo uploader says HELL NO YOU WON’T and I think that proves my point just as well.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:07 PM ^
Delete the trolls or delete the board.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:14 PM ^
Deleting the board would improve a lot of posters' mental health.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:03 PM ^
Not mine. I need this place.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:14 PM ^
If you don't like the post, ok. I'm not a troll...if you look at my posting history I am a huge fan, actually a supporter of Harbaugh (despite getting labeled an apologist), and I'm just curious how the community and the blog creators believe Michigan can take the next step.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:20 PM ^
Apologist!
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:01 PM ^
This is what Patrick Henry would scream if he were around today
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:09 PM ^
They are not going to answer, so I will respond with a quick thought on this. I think we are closer to full "Football Factory" than most would like to admit.
I just seriously think that Michigan has endured such an incredible string of bad timing and bad luck in the last 15 years that the culture is bad. Not bad like unsafe, or dirty, or unprofessional, but just defeated. We needed Miles, then Herbstreit happened. We needed Harbaugh the first time, and Brandon happened.
We have had some really good teams, playoff caliber teams that got a bad bounce here and a bad bounce there. We have had really good teams that were not quite Playoff caliber that should have gone to the Rose Bowl that ended up in some other bowl because of division alignment and conference affiliation that we haven't even gotten good consolation prizes. We have had fluke punts and bad spots.
Why did Hutchison get called for that penalty yesterday? Because of course he did. Why did Dobbins' fumble bounce right back into his arms a month ago? Because of course it did. Why did Levert Hill grab a Penn State receiver for no reason 20 yards away from the play? Because of course he did.
I don't think Michigan has done anything right or wrong. I don't think Michigan does anything with more or less class than anybody else. I just think that things have not gone Michigan's way in a really really long time and it has finally caught up with everybody associated with the program.
Everybody expects bad things to happen. So bad things continue to happen. I don't know what needs to happen for us to get out of this loop, but I am pretty sure it has swallowed Harbaugh whole as well.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:14 PM ^
How long until "bad things happen" changes to "they're happening for a reason" and we accept reality? 15 years of bad things happening isn't an anomaly anymore - it's a full blown trend that will continue until a massive change is made.
(And by "massive change" I'm not speaking of any one particular thing, you Fire Harbaugh trolls)
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:20 PM ^
"It" has transcended massive changes. It has lasted multiple coaches and athletic directors. The Michigan athletic department/football program of 2020 bears no resemblance to the 2007 version. I have come to the point were I actually don't think they are happening for a reason. I think they are just happening, and we happen to be living through it as fans.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:56 PM ^
We last won a Rose Bowl (for 90 years our NC game) in 1998 (97 NC season), 22 years ago.
Before that, the last NC was in the 40’s, right?
Since 98, we’ve won a few tough games, but mostly have had decent seasons (save the recent Dark Ages),and unfortunetly, ended most on a down note.
Soon, NIL will change everything as we were used too, and provide a completely different protocol for competing and winning, in ways we can only speculate.
Teams win championships be improving areas of weakness compared to winners, and playing in a true team sense. We only have to look locally at the 42 year draught the Red Wings overcame, the 33 year the Pistons overcame.
It was done through increadible hard work, TEAMwork and a esprit d’corps which happens by succeeding towards a common goal.
Be patient, keep working hard, improve every day and stay on course.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:50 PM ^
I see the trend of Hard luck blended with the full confidence to win changing with one additional element. And that is the great quarterback. Michigan is due in that area. The schemes are installed that are needed and some tweeking will enhance this. But that rpo being ran by a truly great qb will launch this team. Maybe DCaf is that guy or Milton. I suppose I am a hopeless optimist. And now that I think of it, we will need two for the injuries that are inevitable.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:24 PM ^
Agree with Kool Aid... It's not just bad luck when we're talking 15 years. The program is just not as good as the program(s) we want to compare ourselves against for a multitude of reasons (mainly OSU). Do you think Indiana and Purdue fans think they lose to Michigan every time because of bad luck or because Michigan is just a better program? I ask because Indiana : Michigan is a pretty good recent comparable to Michigan : OSU.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:17 PM ^
I somewhat buy the idea that there is a self-fulfilling prophecy here. You expect bad things to happen and they do...you play tight, get in your own head, etc.
So how did Dabo go from "Clemsoning" to their 3rd title shot in the playoff era.
If we need Jesus, Allah, Moses, or Vishnu to get over the hump, I'm all for it.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:37 PM ^
I think the harsh truth is that they're simply better. Their football graphics department is better (so have said folks that do graphics for a living). Their coaching selections have been better (we could have had Urban Meyer before he went to Florida; while he was coaching Utah; before this cheater narrative rationalization began). Urban Meyer is one of the best ever at identifying coaching talent.
Further, there was an article just a week ago that quoted Ron Bellamy (former Michigan player; West Bloomfield Hills High coach) as saying Ohio State recruits on an elite level. Bear in mind that they recruit his kids as does Michigan. He had to admit Ohio is in contact with his prospects more than any other school, including Michigan. Ryan Day calls his star running back (2021 number two ranked) at least 3 times a week. Michigan does not. That is simply being outworked; which is unacceptable.
It is delusional to keep thinking you're a better program when the clear evidence says that you're being smoked in most facets.
I could go on, but I am already bait for the neggers.
Here is the article wherein Bellamy says Ohio State's coaches are in contact with his 5 star talent more than anyone else (neg me into oblivion for linking a Freep article; I don't subscribe to groupthink bans):
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/jeff-seidel/2019/12/22/do…
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:22 PM ^
NelzQ, thanks for posting that link. Seidel is an awful writer and that piece was as bad as his usual work. But the point about OSU is interesting.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:56 PM ^
I agree with most of what you're saying except equating poor penalties with bad bounces.
Those penalties were poor decisions which reflect a non-disciplined team. And they happen too often and have nothing to do with talent level.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:21 PM ^
Bad things and bounces happen to all teams, you just take greater notice of the ones that happen to your team.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:16 PM ^
I remember when Brian actually posted on these boards. It was a simpler time. Qnyway, he is busy now, but I will pass along your message.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:26 PM ^
He tweeted yesterday a bunch of the board deludes themselves with wishful thinking by saying the analysis he provides is useless because it makes them feel bad. Been a reader here for over 10 years and I have to say he's 100% spot on. Why interact with a group who clearly can't handle the truth or reality of things. People think they want to be told the truth but really they want to be told what they want to hear so they can feel informed.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:38 PM ^
Like the analysis in the UFR after the Ohio State game?
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:18 PM ^
Why anyone would want to relive an OSU loss by skimming through 10,000 words of analysis (let alone writing it) baffles the mind.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:49 PM ^
He's one to talk about feeling bad. Dude catches a case of emo after every big loss.
January 2nd, 2020 at 3:21 PM ^
The only thing that will make these idiot posters shut up is to fire harbaugh at this point. Make it stop for the love of god make it stop