Brian - I agree with your assessment, but where do you stand on changes
I agree with most of Brian's assessment of our football program vs. the elite.
I believe Harbaugh is a really good coach with some flaws, but he has restored us to where we essentially were in the Carr years...minus the B1G championships since OSU has gone full on elite, and the changes to conference structure, divisions, etc.
I agree that OSU, Bama, Clemson, UGA, LSU are football factories and Auburn and Oregon will continue to try to replicate the bagmen, no school model. I agree that no coach would be able to consistently go 11-1 or 12-0 at UM given the current administrative hurdles we put upon ourselves in recruiting and academic expectations we have. In many ways, I feel we are in the same boat as Notre Dame and Washington - two teams not willing to go full on football factory, but also not running the Stanford or Northwestern "student first then athlete" model. So we are very much operation in no man's land, hence averaging out to 9-4 or 10-3 seasons, unable to be elite year after year, and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle once every 5 years (2016 we were fully loaded, but Speight got injured and refs jobbed us). Therefore, we are not a "reload" program, but a constantly "retain + rebuild" program.
I did a poll on here about a month back that asked the community if they wanted to go full on football factory to compete with the elite, or if we should continue on our current path, waiting and hoping for the occasional dream season (1997), and accepting that we are a good but not great program. It came out to 60% in favor of football factory, 40% in favor of status quo + whatever we could do to improve within the NCAA guidelines. To be fair, the question was asked the week after another OSU debacle, so that may have skewed the results towards football factory due to our general frustrations as fans healing from a recent dong punch.
My question is for Brian and the writers on this blog, since I hear and agree with much of what you are saying about what college football has become. Essentially, I have 2 questions.
1) Do you want Michigan to go full on football factory and embrace the business that is college football head on, and do whatever is necessary to compete and become one of the top 5 premier programs in the country? Bagmen, online classes, essentially abandon the "student athlete" model, and just win?
2) How easy would this actually be to accomplish? Bama and OSU have been running football factories for decades. I have to believe schools like Tennessee, Miami, FSU, UF, Ole Miss, maybe Texas, etc are trying to run football factories but can't achieve elite status for whatever reason. Why should we believe Michigan would actually be successful (start winning more, and not get caught) if we tried to run a football factory?
And of course, Happy New Year to all.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:21 PM ^
Ah yes... the "DOOM AND GLOOM" podcaster...
I love people like you who walk around with bibles in your back pockets and a crucifix in your hand acting like UM football is of divine inspiration. Then you point to Bama, Clemson, LSU as if it's all the devil's work roflmao...like the entirety of the University and academic value of the institution falls off a proverbial cliff if M turns into a "football factory"...
You're completely full of shit, and I don't see any less of a value to students whether they be student athletes or not. You're acting as if the entire campus turns into debauchery, brothels, drug caches, sex slaves, and human rights violations.
You're just an idiot!
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:47 PM ^
Easy to talk shit like this when you have no skin in the game.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:45 PM ^
Point on the doll where my comments hurt you.
Just so we're clear, you're cool with fake classes, online undergraduate degrees from Michigan, the "Alabama Method" on player compensation, weed, tats, fake jobs, loaner cars and a culture that covers up player behaviour to keep them on the field "by any means necessary". This means an openness to nerd rage, ski masks, fighting hockey players, solicitation of unmarried women, traffic tickets, littering tickets, parking tickets. Oh, and steroids, a lot of pharmacy involvement.
And what's the win? Fcuking football games. Who's full of shit?
I doubt you even hold tickets.
And this fool calls me an idiot.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:54 PM ^
Newsflash, this shit has been going on in college football for decades.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:33 PM ^
Yeah, and it’s fucked up. This shit belongs in a professional league, tbh. It has no business being associated with any university. College football is fucked up.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:17 PM ^
Our basketball team seems to compete fine for the past 10 years and they have the same academic restrictions that the football team does. Seems like a lot of excuses.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:23 PM ^
I think what he's trying to say is that basketball players are better students, and/or that they don't have to practice as much...
Let's see if he responds.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:21 PM ^
How about we try to maximize what we currently have going on here first? Instead of being perfectly happy to kick another FG, how about we try to score a TD for once?
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:22 PM ^
I read a story a few days ago that stated The University of Michigan was the only power five school that did not allow student athletes to take online classes. I believe this report came from the statement of LSU’s Joe Burrows after he was asked why he went over to the student section and applauded them. Burrow’s response was “I take all online classes so I never get to see the other students”. I believe that student athletes that want to come and play at Michigan may feel that Michigan isn’t in line with other programs. It’s entirely possible that student athletes at other programs are having someone else take the online class so the athlete can pay more attention to the sport they are participating in. Plus I’ve read that John Beilein and Ward Manual approached the Michigan president and asked for some reprieve in entry qualifications and were told that nothing is changing. That’s a reason Beilein left for the NBA. Michigan can’t recruit on the same level and many student athletes, especially in football and basketball, are only looking ahead to the Pros. Many recruits want to play here but don’t want the rigors of going to class. So the alternative to is play somewhere else. The combination of going to class and admissions standards make for difficult recruiting. Thus, we get some good athletes but not as many as other schools. The records reflect the obvious. We have good coaches. We have great facilities. We just don’t have the athletes.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:30 PM ^
So what you're saying is...
Michigan isn't comfortable with technology and able to provide online classes to students like most universities. Hell, even Hopkins has online classes; who wants to go sit in a lecture hall all day where you can barely hear a speaker, and there's limited access to taking a piss or shit...
Reminds me of why people get an MBA... so they can be completely clueless in a business environment yet be a Master in Bullshit Artistry when it comes to speaking in front of people! *Thumbs Up* for backwards thinking.
FYI Hopkins has more NC's in Lacrosse than any other school has in all of its sports combined. I wonder how they end up getting all that talent and putting it on the field. Either Lacrosse doesn't require much talent, or they've been blessed by the divine. Or wait... maybe their academic prowess has decline significantly.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:35 PM ^
I read a story a few days ago that stated The University of Michigan was the only power five school that did not allow student athletes to take online classes
Actually, it was that we are the only public university in the Power 5 that doesn't.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:38 PM ^
Yeah this narrative leads me to believe that UM is behind the times... not that it holds some sort of torch of academic superiority.
I wonder if math/finance classes use an abacus, or if they've graduated to slide rulers, and *ooooh aaah* a *gasp* CALCULATOR...or even God forbid, a computer!
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:48 PM ^
I support the University's stance. Online classes by design are for people who can't make it to campus. There is no reason for an on-campus student to be taking them.
I'd like to see the NCAA curtail this practice. We should want athletes to be part of the university community they're in, not more and more isolated from it.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:50 PM ^
Naive... and antiquated at best. Lets go sit in a classroom because we've done it for years. Hell why don't we go bloodlet and grab some leaches for our pre-med courses because those will cure everything from blood born disease to sucking evil spirits out of the soul.
You're an idiot.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:55 PM ^
I tend to disagree. I studied for the bar exclusively through online lectures offered through my prep course. Whenever I had the option of listening to a lecture, I would always choose that over going to class. My friends in medical/dental school all listened to their lectures. Nothing stopped us from attending classes except that we wanted to listen to the lectures when it was more convenient. This is the new normal. As far as safeguards go, there's no way to really enforce who is sitting there "listening" to the lectures, but all the online tests have pretty stringent standards, and some make you show up for the test in person. The athletes are adults -- treat them like it.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:57 PM ^
I don't agree that it's the new normal for undergraduates at Michigan. There is a campus community here, and athletes should be part of it.
I'm sure a lot of athletes would choose to take online classes, because it's easy - you don't have to get up, don't have to face the professor. But I don't think that's a great reason to allow it.
January 2nd, 2020 at 7:10 PM ^
How is someone else doing the online class for them different than someone else writing a paper for them or doing homework for them? Just because you attend class in person doesnt mean you are doing the work. And I hate to say it but for 3 year guys attending class is probably a waste of time.
January 2nd, 2020 at 4:57 PM ^
Geez. What a cop out mentality and I am so sick of hearing about Michigan and their academics getting in the way of football and they don’t want to be a football factory. Give me a fucking break. The arrogance is astounding around Michigan football. If academics gets in the way then how do you explain the fucking basketball program? They are good every year!!! And Howard is recruiting at a higher level now than Bielan. This is absolute horse shit. Harbaugh has done a good job at Michigan but not good enough with recruiting and player development to win it all. 9 or more wins a year is good but quit this academic arrogance bullshit! Join the fucking Ivy League for Christ’s sake to win in football and shut up about bagmen because Meeeeechgan has them as well! Y’all sound foolish to the rest of the nation
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:55 PM ^
Setting basketball aside for the moment, to which I have some thoughts, I have some honest questions for you. Not trying to start a fight, just trying to understand. Re football:
1) Are there some schools that cheat more than others--ie, bagmen and sham academics?
2) Do the schools that cheat do better in recruiting and in winning football games than the schools that you believe do not cheat?
3) Do you believe Michigan cheats?
4) If so, to what extent, comparatively, does Michigan cheat?
Thank you.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:24 PM ^
1. Yes.
2. ALL big time Division I football programs including Notre Dame and Michigan cheat. It is naive to think they do not. Your talking about millions of dollars and they do anything to gain an edge and that takes precedence over some arrogant ass professor and their assignments. I don't know how old you are but do you remember Notre Dame massive steroid scandal under Holtz? Do you remember Harbaugh complaining about Michigan and their "marginal" student athletes in 2007?
3. ABSOLUTELY- Do you remember the Fab Five? How did that happen?
4. Michigan cheats as much as they need to in order to gain the edge they may need. What keeps the Big House going? MONEY MONEY MONEY.
January 3rd, 2020 at 7:50 AM ^
I'm not sure you answered number 2 and 4, and number 3 relates to basketball which I was reserving for a different discussion. Want to take another crack at 2, 3, 4 as it relates to football? Help me understand what you're trying to say.
You acknowledge some schools cheat more than others. Do the ones who cheat more have more success than the ones who cheat less? If Michigan cheats in football, to which schools would you compare their cheating, and what does "cheating as much as they need to gain the edge" mean? Care to elaborate?
Thanks.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:59 PM ^
Hard to argue at this point. It would be one thing if the only teams that beat us were the likes of OSU and Alabama...but we lost to Wisconsin this year. Badly. That shouldn't have happened. We have every inherent advantage over them.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:00 PM ^
Serious question: Why would you not want to be a football factory?
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:02 PM ^
I assume you're being sarcastic but I'll bite....It's hard to be an academic all star and a football factory at the same time. Generally the idea behind a University is academic excellence first, athletic achievement second.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:50 PM ^
Is it though? I mean, Michigan obviously takes many kids as football players that they would not take as students. Michigan has former players talking about how they are steered away from certain degrees to make life easier for football. Michigan's current coach talked about this. You have half the team majoring in general studies.
Duke and UNC manage to be basketball factories at academic powerhouses. USC and Notre Dame in football both manage. Michigan is not the only team out there playing for a school that values academics.
To your last point, generally the idea behind a university's football team is football. Michigan players pick Michigan for football. They do not enroll at Michigan, and then participate in a tryout a few weeks after classes start like this is high school or something. They are there for football. You know that, I know that, they know that.
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:30 PM ^
Generally yes, then schools began building 100,000 seat bullion producing factories.
January 2nd, 2020 at 10:29 PM ^
Give me break. You did not play college athletics at all obviously. The idea behind the University of Michigan is just like everyone else's and that is to make as much money as they possibly can. if you attend Michigan to get into Law School that's one thing but if you can contribute to selling tickets to fill the Big House in the Fall then you can major in General Studies and do what it takes to keep that stadium filled. My God how arrogant you guys are, No wonder Finebaum and Valenti rip your ass so much.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:06 PM ^
It is quite simple really. One simply believes the ONLY place a young man can play football and get an education / set you up for a future outside of football is Michigan. In the state of Michigan, it is mutually exclusive that you can be really good at football and provide a great education, or make the student athlete responsible for his or her future after football.
Graduates from football programs such as Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Georgia, Florida, etc. are doomed to a life of failure and will become a burden on the welfare system due to any ability at all to get a job and have a career outside of football. They aren't set up for success in any way shape or form like football players at Michigan are.
Furthermore, you have to TRULY believe that there isn't one single living man or woman on the face of the Earth that could possibly win more than one Bowl game in 5 years. Win against a top 15 team on the road or at a neutral field. Go better than 0-5 against their rival.
You also have to believe that your institution that cheats, is more righteous than the others, because it doesn't cheat as much as its peers.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:25 PM ^
Hey Brian,
I disagree! With some of it!
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:26 PM ^
Their Soph QB outplayed our Sr. "5 STAR" QB. Their pro WRs outplayed our supposed pro WRs. We couldn't make big play when it counted. Till we find a difference maker at QB and WR its 8-10 wins. Overachieving will not happen.
Its Bball season and PSC due at the end of the month.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:33 PM ^
I think we are only a heady QB away.... .the D impressed me last game.... and I ripped Brown's gimmick D hard.... I loved how they shot Uche in the backfield at the snap...wish they did this the past two years.....and they looked almost equal to Bama's athletes, same on offense..... a QB who doesnt miss the wide open deep wr over and over, and we win, and the narrative changes. Patterson did this all season long. Need a heady QB.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:55 PM ^
LOL Alabama and OSU each averaged over 8 YPP.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:38 PM ^
The "student athlete model" was broken a long time ago....either go Ivy League model or submit and go all in to the current climate. If you want to be the "leaders and best" in athletics, you have to play by the rules.
January 2nd, 2020 at 5:50 PM ^
I think we will become a football factory and Michigan merchandise is hot. The top kids will come here to make $$$$.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:08 PM ^
I’m not for the football factory model.
but if they ever decided to do it, I have this sneaking suspicion that the NCAA would suddenly get religion with us, with Saban being like Claude Rains in Casablanca.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:31 PM ^
People on here griping and picking apart the fact Michigan is a school first, should go look in the mirror. Think it through.
It's your entertainment. That's all it is.
It ain't important in the grand scheme.
There has to be a limit. Live with the limit you're school has on it's program, find another team to root for, or maybe find yourself a pro team.
January 2nd, 2020 at 7:46 PM ^
If it wasn’t important they wouldn’t shell out over 7 million a year.
but academics and chemistry classes and right way and blah blah blah is why we can’t win a big game that isn’t at home ever.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:57 PM ^
It is entertainment. It's also the way many schools raise funds. Kind of a strange comment for a school sports board.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:31 PM ^
You seem to assume that Michigan can’t win big without cheating
and/or
the best recruits are academically disinterested or outright idiots
and/or
the best recruits want/expect payola.
I'm not buying any of it. There's no room for improvement in any area without lowering academic standards or cheating monetarily? Nonsense!
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:44 PM ^
I have not read any comments so pardon any duplications: I simply want the NCAA to step up to the plate and put some enforceable guidelines in place that level the field of play.
1. Expand the CFP to, preferably, 16 teams.
2. Place a limit on the talent a school can bring in each year. Currently, for the 2020 class, on 247 Clemson is #1 at 311.9 and LSU is in 5th at 292.45. From there it is drops significantly with the next 15 being between 277 and 240...Texas is at #10 with 259. I say put a very hard ceiling at 260. Make Swinney and Saban and Day coach.
Just this would improve the college game by leaps and bounds for the athletes. "Alabama" would not get to stockpile excellent 4**** kids behind their hoards of 5***** recruits. And this would be so simple to execute...that is until these top five schools get caught paying millions under the table for the rating guys to list all their 5***** targets as 3 star guys.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:57 PM ^
"Place a limit on the talent a school can bring in each year."
Holy shit I've now read it all.
January 2nd, 2020 at 6:57 PM ^
"Place a limit on the talent a school can bring in each year."
Holy shit I've now read it all.
January 2nd, 2020 at 7:20 PM ^
Why do you keep coming back, Section1? You need help. Posting is not healthy for you.
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:27 PM ^
The funny thing about Section1 is that he claimed to be a long time lurker and first time poster about 24 hours ago in his very first post. Since then he's churned out about fifty comments, which is an incredible amount for someone who's just getting into the mix for the first time. Seems pretty clear he's either an alter ego of an existing poster or the reincarnation of someone who got banned.
January 3rd, 2020 at 12:58 AM ^
It is definitely him. He is honestly a very ill man. I recall that once he said that in the aftermath of stretchgate, he was "interviewed" by Mitch Albom on the radio. He was not an authority on anything related to the story, nor was he invited on. This was a stark raving mad old guy who called into a radio show and later framed it as him being "interviewed". That is the level of self-importance and delusion you are dealing with.
January 2nd, 2020 at 8:55 PM ^
We're not socialist enough, let's be more socialist.
January 2nd, 2020 at 7:51 PM ^
Is there a Harbaugh apologist excuse and/or general assumptions of all universities besides Michigan flowchart somewhere? I'm losing track, very hard to keep up.
January 2nd, 2020 at 9:23 PM ^
Lloyd’s records the year he won the Big Ten were 12-0, 10-3 twice and 9-3 twice. 3 of his championships were shared. The best coaches Carr faced? Alvarez had a .609 winning percentage. Cooper .715. Paterno .656(this is from 1993-2004 which was Carr’s last big ten championship). Nick Saban was .585 Bobby Williams was .485. Hayden Fry was .613 and this was actually higher in the 80s vs the 90s. Ferentz is .609. Ferentz has been .710 since Harbaugh took over so his teams have been better since Harbaugh got to the Big Ten.
The coaches Harbaugh has faced their winning percentages look like this: Dantonio .590, Ferentz .710, Meyer/Day .902 and .941, Paul Chryst .765, James Franklin .709, PJ Fleck .605.
.610 was the average of the best Big Ten coaches that Lloyd Carr faced. Harbaugh? .746
So you tell me whether or not the Big Ten is tougher under Harbaugh or if I’m missing some obvious coach from back in the day. Glen Mason was .529 so he would drag that average down even more. The upper tier of the Big Ten is much tougher now than it ever has been. There’s a reason they used to call it the Big Two and little eight. Most of the Big Ten used to be a joke.
January 2nd, 2020 at 11:48 PM ^
Five years from now no one will remember or care that Noah Furbush got his degree in like 17 engineering fields. But we will all remember and talk about the ‘97 championship like it was yesterday. The point is I don’t spend my time and energy and enthusiasm to play nice by some intrinsic higher purpose of being noble. Of the thousands of amazing students who come out of Michigan each year, let’s pay 25 of them to just be fucking excellent at football. I promise no ones degrees will suffer one bit.