Beilein says Cavs “no longer playing like a bunch of thugs”
During a film session Beilein said the team was “no longer playing like a bunch of thugs,” only to backtrack and say he meant slugs. Yikes. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28450077/john-beilein-apologizes-cavs-says-meant-call-players-slugs-not-thugs
Im guessing Beilein wished he stayed at Michigan right about now.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:16 PM ^
When white people refer to black people as "thugs" it has a specific intended meaning. I don't think that Beilein meant it that way, a third of the team is white, and there was a time in which "thug" only conveyed proclivity for certain behaviors and had no racial connotation and he is an older guy.
But that time has passed. To 90% of people reading this right now, you look only to be defending racist beliefs and stereotypes. The other 10% staunchly agree with you already so there is no need for further reinforcement.
January 9th, 2020 at 2:47 PM ^
I just looked up monkey and boy on Webster’s site. Neither of those entries included the fact that they are both racist slurs. Webster isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. If I had an OED subscription I would look those words up and I’m nearly certain they would mention the racist ways those words can be used
January 9th, 2020 at 7:30 AM ^
Nope.
January 9th, 2020 at 7:47 AM ^
How in the hell does being a thug have anything to do with a person's race? Stop trying so hard.
January 9th, 2020 at 8:12 AM ^
Because racists who still want to participate in polite society have co-opted the word as a replacement for the n-word. How about you try a little harder?
January 9th, 2020 at 8:52 AM ^
When do you hear white guys referred to as thugs?
January 9th, 2020 at 9:11 AM ^
I've heard it very often in that context - especially wrt to hockey games. The "enforcers" were always called thugs or goons (sometimes even affectionately by their own fans) - and certainly had no racial connotation.
January 9th, 2020 at 10:06 AM ^
I was going to say exactly this. How would you describe the Broad Street Bullies or Claude Lemeiux? Darren McCarty? All those guys were thugs on the ice.
January 9th, 2020 at 8:08 AM ^
"Thug" is not a racist term. The most general use of it (for about a century or so) is roughly equivalent to "goon" or "tough" or "bruiser", among others and has been applied to people of all races/creeds/genders when those individuals tend to resort to violence, aggression, and physicality to accomplish their objectives.
People tend to forget that the origin goes back to the Thuggee group in India: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee
January 9th, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
Thug is not inherently a racist term.
Thug is very often a racist dog whistle.
January 9th, 2020 at 9:14 AM ^
I guess I learn more everyday that I am out of touch then. I am a hockey fan. The term "thugs" was used quite often to describe teams that gooned it up rather than playing skill hockey. And no way is anyone using that term in a racist way in the hockey context.
Thugs to me has always been a term for people that are more interested in roughing it up and proving toughness more than anything else. If you or others have adopted that term in a racist way, that's on you/them.
I get that if the term becomes widely recognized in that manner then we should avoid using the term. But I don't think that's the case in common usage and in Beilein's case, I don't think he would understand it that way. Using the term thug in the context of basketball I viewed as a substitute for play like some people described old time Pistons basketball where the principal "villain" was Bill Laimbeer. Absent something else, to me it doesn't mean anymore than using the term to describe a roughhouse hockey team.
January 9th, 2020 at 9:08 AM ^
No no, he's racist now, that's how this works
January 9th, 2020 at 9:19 AM ^
No one said he was racist. I even specifically said I don't think he is racist, but it is a racist term, and that's why there is an uproar, and he was forced to amend his statement.
According to Meriam-Webster's dictionary definition, a thug is "a violent criminal." Obviously, this definition leaves the word open to define people of all ethnicities. However, given the frequent ways this word has been used to describe Black Lives Matter protesters, the 17-year-old murder victim Trayvon Martin, and sadly, almost every black victim of police brutality — there is an undeniable racial charge to the word. When you consider the people who are called thugs — groups of black protesters, victims of racist violence, teenagers minding their own business, and flip the racial element, you'd be hard-pressed to find examples of white people being called thugs in earnest by the media (or really by anyone).
Several prominent activists and black writers have written about the phenomenon of thug replacing the n-word in modern culture. In a popular press conference back in 2014, the Seattle Seahawks player Richard Sherman explained his feelings about the word.
"The reason it bothers me is because it seems like it's an accepted way of calling somebody the N-word now. It's like everybody else said the N-word and then they say 'thug' and that's fine. It kind of takes me aback and it's kind of disappointing because they know," Sherman said.
January 9th, 2020 at 11:12 AM ^
Fair response except that you would not be hard pressed to find examples of the term used with whites. As I noted elsewhere, Bill Laimbeer was called a thug many, many times and hockey players are quite frequently called thugs. We used to call wrestlers thugs back in school in pickup ball because they played as athletes without skill and with the purpose of playing the game to intimidate the other side.
I fully believe that is the context of his statement here. I am glad to have an awareness now that the term has taken on a racial context so that I don't commit the same mistake but there is a large segment of the population that has no idea of its use in this manner and would not use the term for that purpose.
January 8th, 2020 at 11:26 PM ^
Wonderful person and coach, but he doesn’t seem to have the skill set to coach pros.
January 9th, 2020 at 2:20 AM ^
Won't down vote you, but she's an OSU fan so screw her and John legend
January 9th, 2020 at 8:17 AM ^
I downvoted for precisely that reason.
January 9th, 2020 at 9:02 AM ^
Seriously?
January 9th, 2020 at 1:24 PM ^
I just saw her on the between two ferns movie and I think she's nothing to write home about. The knowledge that she married an OSU slappy and that she's the queen of social media virtue signaling doesn't help her cause.
January 9th, 2020 at 2:36 PM ^
That's funny. The choice was for the expression, not actual person or her background.
I could see if I commented that I wanted Beelzebub Urban to coach the football team or something... like a crazy number of people (that shouldn't be higher than zero) have stated.
January 8th, 2020 at 11:27 PM ^
Thought it was a weird move for both parties from the beginning but really didn’t think it would go anything like this.
January 8th, 2020 at 11:28 PM ^
Shoulda stuck to college kids. They might possibly be willing to put up with that shit.
January 8th, 2020 at 11:53 PM ^
I’m sure the players that liked him so far will stick by him. This for sure will further fracture his relationship with the players that haven’t been a fan of him since he arrived in Cleveland.
January 8th, 2020 at 11:30 PM ^
Thoughts and prayers to the players affected by this, hopefully with counseling they can move on and try to put their lives back together.
”The Cavaliers players left the room initially stunned and were increasingly disturbed as they dispersed out of the meeting, league sources said.”
January 9th, 2020 at 5:01 AM ^
I heard they are all seeking immediate eligibility with other teams.
January 8th, 2020 at 11:33 PM ^
Wow. Won’t even make it to the all star break. That went well.
January 8th, 2020 at 11:47 PM ^
What a schmuck.
Cleveland: Not even once.
January 8th, 2020 at 11:50 PM ^
Yeah not sure how he keeps the locker room after that.
I made a drastic job move a decade ago that I thought was the right move and 6 months in I was like wtf did I get into.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:18 AM ^
If he "loses the locker room" over this then his locker room is full of children (it is)
January 9th, 2020 at 6:04 AM ^
Not sure if serious, but lots of people understand 'thugs' to be a racialized term. I don't think discourse about racism in the US is at a place where people can recognize that there is a difference between being socialized in a racist society, which is what's behind Beilein's slip here, and being a virulent racist. He put himself in a position where he needs to lean on the former thing to make it clear that he's not the latter thing. But even acknowledging the former thing is virtually unthinkable for most people I see talking about this. That's why he's trying to pretend he meant 'slugs', and I don't think that's going to impress many people.
January 9th, 2020 at 1:54 PM ^
Excellent points. I hope we do get to the point where we can make distinctions between “incidental racism” and virulent harm.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:03 AM ^
Well. We all suspected it, but didn’t want to admit it.
But JB is in the klan
Edit: Jeez, adding an /s just to be sure people know that my OP was sarcasm.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:06 AM ^
Is “thugs” a secret racist dog whistle?
By the way, he called 6 white guys thugs too.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:14 AM ^
Richard Sherman thought so: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/richard-sherman-thug-is-accepted-way-of-calling-someone-n-word/
I'm not saying that I agree -- but neither am I the head coach of a team in a sports league that's predominantly black, and with a fan base that is majority non-white (source: Wikipedia). Part of Beilein's job responsibilities include knowing this kind of thing.
January 9th, 2020 at 2:45 AM ^
Richard Sherman is an ass. Thug is an Indian word that equates to ruffian. You can misconstrue it however you want though.
January 9th, 2020 at 4:47 AM ^
Sorry, no. Words can take on new meaning culturally despite the dictionary definition.
Am I saying "Thugs" is tantamount to an N-bomb? No. What I'm saying is that the word "thug" has evolved (or devolved, really) culturally to be associated as a pejorative in the black community.
This is due to its continued use by white people in describing reasons to fear/not engage with/discriminate against black people.
I have no opinion one way or another on Richard Sherman, but the community the epithet affects gets to decide what a slur is. Not everyone else.
January 9th, 2020 at 5:33 AM ^
For me growing up in California thug always meant a type of "person", not race specific. You could be a white thug, mexican thug. I find this blown out of proportion from my area. Thug for basketball was basically street ball, out of control, unnecessary fouling. I found this story strange but I guess east of me it's more racist. Never once considered it racist.
January 9th, 2020 at 9:18 AM ^
Thug characterizes a person's behavior, not their intrinsic characteristics.
January 9th, 2020 at 6:06 PM ^
Yeah people were called thugs when I was growing up. This was in the UP so
January 9th, 2020 at 9:17 AM ^
“Thug is an Indian word that equates to ruffian. You can misconstrue it however you want though.”
I think this is a specious argument. A swastika has an Indian origin too, but if you show one on a flag in your office and you cite its Indian origin as your defense in using it, you’re going to be in for a rough ride.
My point is not to find moral equivalence between the acts of calling players thugs and using swastikas; my point is to say that the use of words and imagery can stray a very long way from their origins.
January 9th, 2020 at 7:38 AM ^
I don't believe that the entire English speaking population should be held to Sherman's ignorant understanding of the language.
January 9th, 2020 at 7:54 AM ^
Sadly, if one person feels it’s racist, then it is these days.
January 9th, 2020 at 8:42 AM ^
No, it's a completely non-secret racist dog whistle.
January 9th, 2020 at 11:25 AM ^
Evidently not to some of us (and I suspect a huge number) it is. I understand that it can be used as a proxy to mean other things but it's pretty clear (at least to me) that most people do not use the term in that manner. Any number of terms could be used in the same manner. I guess the difficult part is deciding when something is no longer acceptable to use. I don't think it's fair to infer intent of someone's use when general use is not established.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:08 AM ^
I assume there's a negative racial component to using the word thug that I'm missing. I always equated it's use with words like punks or bitches. Not language that you want your kids using but also not the stuff you'd expect to get bleeped on tv either. Seems like the kind of thing the players would use to try and get him fired since they already don't want him there.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:27 AM ^
I’ll say two things to this.
1) Yes - thugs is absolutely coded language used against black men. It started in the 90s but really took off about a decade ago when it became clear certain radio and tv folks were clearly using it in places their predecessors had used worse.
2) People might consider this a freudian slip. One thing I’ve learned about instances like this is that you’ll LIKELY get a pass if you happen to have goodwill with the folks it happens around. We’ll log it into our memory banks, but we’ll kinda let it go. Absent that good will... good luck.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:09 AM ^
Feel like this was a South Park episode. Taking the job in Cleveland seemed odd from the beginning.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:10 AM ^
I mean, here's where him being a total square should help him. It was an innocent mistake. It's only relatively recently that "thug" took on a racial connotation. Before that, it was basically synonymous with "brute" or something along those lines. Yes, by now, he should have learned to stay away from it, but cut the old-timer a break.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:29 AM ^
Note that 'brute' would not represent an improvement here.