Beilein says Cavs “no longer playing like a bunch of thugs”
During a film session Beilein said the team was “no longer playing like a bunch of thugs,” only to backtrack and say he meant slugs. Yikes. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28450077/john-beilein-apologizes-cavs-says-meant-call-players-slugs-not-thugs
Im guessing Beilein wished he stayed at Michigan right about now.
January 9th, 2020 at 6:13 AM ^
If by "relatively recently" you mean in the past 30 years, ok.
January 9th, 2020 at 11:53 AM ^
More like the last 5-10, tops.
January 9th, 2020 at 6:01 PM ^
Can you provide evidence for this? I've been around for more decades now than I care to disclose in public and have never once heard of "thug" being a racial epithet (although it is certainly derogatory, but more on a personal level than by race) - until this incident.
It is certainly possible I've just been sheltered from it, but it seems that it would have made it around in some form of public media had it been in use that way for 30+ years.
January 9th, 2020 at 6:24 AM ^
Agree, but it only highlights how much of a mistake it was for him to take that job at this point in his career. He is very truly “an old timer.” Those guys aren’t trying to listen to John Beilein. His college accomplishments are of no import to them. To them, he is some old guy who thinks he is the smartest person in the room, their perception of him doesn’t even cross over with ours, at all.
Beilein’s best bet is to be bad enough to get fired (it isn’t out of the question that this is calculated to do just that, and isn’t bad enough for him to get “cancelled”) and to either retire or get a new college job. (Though this could prove problematic for recruiting). Either way he needs to get the f out of there.
Absent some other significant factors that we don’t know, I can’t think of a worse career decision than him leaving Michigan for that job. By the time of his retirement, he would have had Coach K reverence at Michigan.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:11 AM ^
Oooo yikes. awkward
that one is gonna hurt
January 9th, 2020 at 12:16 AM ^
Poor Beilein. He has an innocent mind and didn't mean it in the way many people will take it.
Thanks to that fuck face Kevin Loves antics now Beilein is a media target for NBA drama pieces
January 9th, 2020 at 6:31 AM ^
What’s kind of interesting here is the player he had supposedly “lost” already on the roster is white.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:18 AM ^
This doesn't seem to be going well.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:19 AM ^
Maybe he was making a historical reference.
Thugs were members of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India. A couple of his players were trying to assassinate his character and rob him of his career. So, in that context, it’s both true and highly erudite.
or he fucked up and used language that has loaded meaning that the pc pitchfork mob will surely blow out of proportion for the crime. Interested to see what happens.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:21 AM ^
"Thug" became a hot topic 5 years ago when this happened ...
"Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman held a press conference on Wednesday afternoon in which he addressed issues stemming from the interview he gave Fox’s Erin Andrews immediately following the NFC Championship game, an interview in which he loudly called out 49ers wide receiver Michael Crabtree as a “sorry receiver.”
In the press conference, Sherman said he was sorry the interview had taken attention away from his teammates, but he also said he didn’t believe the response to it was warranted, especially people who labeled him a “thug” after the interview. He also said he believed “thug” is now an “accepted way of calling somebody the n word.”
Afterwards LeBron tweeted to back Sherman, as well as Hank Aaron and others.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:45 AM ^
Obama used the word “thug” when he described the Baltimore riots... was he being racist? Most of the rioters were black.
Anyone can add a racist component to any negative word if they try. It’s nearly impossible to tell people’s true intentions or biases. We can’t read people’s minds...It’s better to err on the side of assuming people are innocent than to assume people are secret racists that slipped up.
Racism is a catch-22.
The more you talk about race, the more racism there could be. Race can dominate your thoughts, and it’s not healthy to see the world purely through a racial perspective... For example, if you interpret something as racist that was truly innocent and unintentional, that ironically makes you a bit of a racist.
On the other hand, the less you talk about racism, the more likely it will be forgotten, and its evils will also be forgotten... racism could creep back in a much worse form, which is why we feel the need to talk about it more.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:58 AM ^
I think the difference there is that Obama was calling rioters thugs, because that's kind of the definition of thug (a violent person, especially a criminal). Rioters are violent and criminal, so I'd say Obama used a word that's literal definition was appropriate. However, it's hard to find a reason for Coach B to find anything criminal or violent about the way his basketball team was playing -- therefore his players are left to wonder what he meant by "thugs".
January 9th, 2020 at 1:30 AM ^
Can you read minds? Because you seem to think that there is only one reason why a person uses a certain word... If Trump called black rioters thugs, I guarantee many would argue it was racist (and maybe he is?), even though it is a well defined term. My point is that you are making a leap by trying to read people’s true intentions,
Is it that far of a leap to say that someone who fouls a lot in basketball is a thug? It’s breaking the rules and it’s physical, one could argue violent at times. In basketball if you play too slow, you do tend to foul more to prevent easy shots, so it’s not hard to go from slug to thug accidentally... not saying I know what he’s thinking, just saying it’s a possibility,
For a case study, would you call MSU football players thugs with respect to their dirty hits on the field? Remember Narduzzi’s 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness game and what they tried to do to Denard Robinson. Thugs an appropriate term there? Heck, there were several dirty hits this year.It’s not the objective definition of thugs, but it’s not too far off when you are playing that dirty. I’m guessing many on here at one point or another have called MSU football players thugs at one point or another, either on this blog or in private conversation.
January 9th, 2020 at 1:00 AM ^
I cannot with y’all. This is some next level cognitive dissonance dumb ass fuckery. People rioting in the streets committing crimes and fucking up shit ARE being thugs first of all.
I don’t even feel like responding to the rest of what you’re saying. It’s stupid. And pussy. Stop trying to explain away and what about dumb bullshit.
You sound about as dumb as folks who think that if they don’t go get an STD test it will go away. No the fuck it won’t. You are absolutely not Black or Brown thinking that dumbass shit. We didn’t invent racism. And I assure you that I get absolutely TIRED of talking about it. More importantly, we get tired of living it. Then people like you on my favorite blog for my alma mater say absolutely idiotic shit that I would think Michigan fans are too smart to think or say. Or I get followed around a store. Or the valet chases me down a street accusing me of stealing the keys to MY 100k convertible another valet just pulled up for me. Foh. I can’t just stop being black. Shit gets tiring. I don’t even have the patience to educate and unpack all that’s wrong with your...dude foh
January 9th, 2020 at 1:12 AM ^
Your frustration is clear. Your message is jumbled. That being said, I agree with it. And I can appreciate why you would be frustrated.
more importantly, what car you driving?
January 9th, 2020 at 2:03 AM ^
Did you just assume my race over the internet? You don’t have a god damn clue who I am. Refute my argument rather than saying you are so above it that’s it’s not worthy of a response.
You called me a “dumbass”, “racist”, “fuckery” “pussy”, “bullshit”...Refute my argument, or STFU with your toxic internet tough guy rant and bragging about your car, which has nothing to do with any of this. I’m guessing you don’t know how to make a logical argument because you would have already done it if you could.
January 9th, 2020 at 1:23 AM ^
Bingo. The dagger in the ridiculous claim that this is racist is the fact that SIX of his players are white.
There is nothing racial about the word "thug." Anybody who thinks Beilein is racist because of this is likely only making that inference because he is white.
January 9th, 2020 at 7:31 AM ^
That was his white side coming out.
January 9th, 2020 at 5:46 AM ^
Yup. Rob gets it. Anyone who doesn’t understand “thug” is at least 10-15yrs behind the times. Probably longer
January 9th, 2020 at 12:28 AM ^
John, John, John...
January 9th, 2020 at 12:32 AM ^
Front page story on ESPN.com
Worst career move ever? Or just top ten?
January 9th, 2020 at 1:35 AM ^
Successful athletes and coaches (or successful people in general) are successful because they're driven and competitive. They think they can succeed where others have failed, or where most of the 'objective' indicators point to a greater likelihood of failure than success. Sometimes that competitiveness is what causes them to fall flat on their faces. It is what it is.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:34 AM ^
TOP DEFINITION thug A thug is typically referred to a male or female who commits crimes for personal gain through stealing, selling drugs, but especially violent crimes such as robbery and assault.
Probably not the right word to refer to his players but maybe they should get rid of the bad apples that are not buying in.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:38 AM ^
"Thugs" is not a slur. Also, his players act more like pussies than thugs so I believe him when he says he meant slugs.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:54 AM ^
Context is everything. When a white authority figure calls his black underlings "thugs" because they're not meeting his expectations, it's absolutely a slur.
BTW, your use of "pussies" above would also constitute a slur.
January 9th, 2020 at 2:18 AM ^
Would calling them lazy also constitute a slur? See my point above. Any negative label going from Race A’s mouth to Race B’s ears could be considered racist in some regard.
January 9th, 2020 at 5:20 AM ^
In this situation, no, not every negative label from one race to another is racist, but a label that calls up old stereotypes for the race you’re addressing might be racist. For example, if Beilein had said, “I’m glad we stopped playing like a bunch of cowards”, it would have hardly gone noticed. “Thugs” is a particularly loaded term because it is so often used as a pejorative euphemism for urban black men.
When I was a resident, I had spiked dreadlocks, and I had a patient tell me “I thought you were one of those thugs.” I wish I could tell you that I said something witty, like “sorry sir, the only thing I sling is tennis elbow”, but I didn’t.
January 9th, 2020 at 6:08 AM ^
“Any negative label going from Race A’s mouth to Race B’s ears could be considered racist in some regard. “
this comment and logic is lazy
and no, if JB said lazy or any number of other words this would have been a Non story
January 9th, 2020 at 5:50 PM ^
Refute it then. I caveated it by saying “in some regard.” So give me an example where it would be *impossible* to take race completely out of an insult. You are the lazy one.
January 9th, 2020 at 8:30 AM ^
Thus blog is certainly full of pussies.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:45 AM ^
I loved JB at Michigan and was glad we had him for so long.
Also. supported his right to explore the NBA but it will not last long.
Meanwhile, Juwan has my full support.
January 9th, 2020 at 12:52 AM ^
Y’all cannot be serious. I rarely actually login and comment. But just in case the tone deaf create a chorus... “Thug” is ABSOLUTELY a coded way of saying the N Word. Full stop.
Richard Sherman did not make it up. Many of you just didn’t know that until he said it. We’ve BEEN knowing. Thinking things didn’t exist before you knew about them is.... Columbus and tone deaf af. No it’s not some overly sensitive pc pitchfork blah blah blah it’s real. Many folks are just to Candy ass to admit it.
And I can’t believe Beilien... BRUH! He’s out of there. He said it. It’s kinda hard to take it back. Is what it is. And to the poster who said something about a Freudian slip...sorry but YUP. There are hundreds of other words in the English lexicon he could have chosen that First of all, probably more accurately described what was happening on the floor. It’s not even like they were playing like the Bad Boy Pistons. Second, hundreds of other words that could/should have come to mind to describe basketball. Third, he should know better and not knowing better is a sign that maybe he’s not in the right position. It is what it is.
edit: John is the most likely person to actually have meant “slug.” And also doesn’t seem to have a negative bone in his body. But he hasn’t been there long enough to build the benefit of the doubt and he kind of is a super duper old white man. I’d be willing to bet it isn’t the most natural to relate to his locker room.
And if you think that Stanford graduate Richard Sherman is a “thug” in the Webster definition, then you have NEVER met a thug in your life, don’t know what the word means, or...you want to REALLY call him an n-word but won’t. Because...a multi-millionaire graduate of one of the world’s finest institutions is not violent or criminal. He hasn’t ever even been any type of “street” at all that could lead to some kind of confusion. Keep it real. ??♂️
January 9th, 2020 at 1:05 AM ^
See, that's the problem. Richard Sherman's on-field persona is that of someone who uses violence to intimidate. And, until his rant, I had never, once in my life, thought of 'thug' as a racist word. There are plenty of thugs of every color. (Also, one can simultaneously be educated, rich, and violent).
That said -- when it was backed up so prominently, it made an immediate impression, such that as soon as I saw the story about Beilein saying it, I immediately realized that it was a problem. I'm not Beilein's target audience.
January 9th, 2020 at 1:14 AM ^
Believe it or not, putting "full stop" at the end of a sentence does not make the sentence true, nor does it substitute for actually providing evidence to prove your point.
You wrote a whole lot of words to say almost nothing. The fact is the definition of "thug" includes no aspect of race, and in practical usage it is applied to white people and black people equally.
Being black doesn't exempt you from criticism. You can't claim racism every time you're criticized and expect anybody to believe it.
Maybe the reason you feel like black people are more likely to be called thugs is because statistically they are more likely to be thugs. Look at crime statistics for any violent crime and tell me it's not true. Here are the US homicide rates broken down by offender to get you started: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables…
January 9th, 2020 at 1:23 AM ^
What is your point though ? Black people are more likely to be thugs....ok. But that has nothing to do with a NBA coach calling his players thugs.
And I do believe Beilein that he didn’t mean to say it. If I had to guess the NBA is so far out of his comfort zone he isn’t even able to speak easily in front of the team. I don’t understand at al why he went to a terrible NBA team. Makes me wonder if there was some sort of problem at uofm no one knows about. Or was it just money ? Is he getting that much more ?
January 9th, 2020 at 2:04 AM ^
So by your own definition I guess every white guy in a crowded room should have to walk through a metal detector and shouldn’t complain about it since you know... white men tend to shoot 20-50+ people at a time when they can’t handle their crappy lives and need to take a few people with them.
January 9th, 2020 at 8:48 AM ^
" The fact is the definition of "thug" includes no aspect of race, and in practical usage it is applied to white people and black people equally. "
1) It is not applied to white people and black people equally
2) Dog whistles generally have no aspect of race - that is the point.
January 9th, 2020 at 1:32 AM ^
You think you are a mind reader. You think you can tell the secret racists from the innocent slips.
What drugs are you on?
January 9th, 2020 at 2:14 AM ^
Its an unfair world if Beilein doesnt lose his job over this hurtful language. Its not like he strangled a man and left marks on his neck or went into a crowd while on tv and beat an innocent mans ass. That would be understandable, no this, this ends now with his career.
It time for justice an equality and this is the first step.
January 9th, 2020 at 2:25 AM ^
I really don’t appreciate your use of Candy Ass. It is a racist term and just because you may not be aware of the racist meaning it has taken on in the past 5 minutes does not make it ok for you to use it.
January 9th, 2020 at 5:41 AM ^
Bingo. This guy (hail2thavictors) gets it
January 9th, 2020 at 12:53 AM ^
NBA players are the lowest common denominator of American society. Bernie's tax raises should hit these guys the hardest. I can't think any group of people less deserving of their riches.
January 9th, 2020 at 1:17 AM ^
Hey guys, I found JBs Mgoblog profile.
January 9th, 2020 at 1:25 AM ^
They deserve it as much as signers, actors, and any other famous entertainer. If they produce the money they are gonna get it in a free market. Would you rather no free (or close to free) markets?
January 9th, 2020 at 1:31 AM ^
Lol. You are not worth debating against. There are several dog whistles here. “NBA players are the lowest common denominator of society?” Do tell why that is? I can think of rapists, murderers, pedophiles, companies who knowingly produce dangerous products for profit, abusers, drunk drivers etc etc.
You also do not seem to know much (or anything) about taxes OR how NBA players (and other professional athletes) are currently taxed. I wouldn’t be surprised if they paid LESS under what I understand to be Bernie’s plan. But your choice of words and people tell me all I need to know about you. I won’t waste my energy trying to educate someone so far gone.
January 9th, 2020 at 1:50 AM ^
I think you're being trolled.
As for your comment about taxes -- I don't know what current constitutes Bernie's "plan," but the one on his Senate page -- I followed a link from www.bernietax.com -- shows clearly that he wants to increase marginal tax rates on high-income individuals. (This is different from Elizabeth Warren's Wealth Tax, which looks at assets, rather than income). Anyone making NBA money would pay more in tax under the Sanders plan, unless they were able to defer / deduct more income.
January 9th, 2020 at 3:46 AM ^
Hail2thavictors...you really putting drunk drivers with rapists, murderers, and abusers ? I don’t see that as remotely fair. Maybe if someone is a habitual very drunk driver. But 99%+ of drunk drives result in no accident.
January 9th, 2020 at 8:41 AM ^
Don't equate any of those with murder. That's not fair either. Everyone murders.