Beaumont Hospitals to lay off 2,475, cut 450 positions
So after the CEO effectively shuttered the Wayne site last week, and it was obvious they were hemorhagging cash, I feared this was coming.
My sister is currently awaiting word on her status, but more broadly speaking this is a bad, bad sign.
April 21st, 2020 at 12:15 PM ^
I sure hope you're not an avid sports fan cause those baseball players making 30+ million/yr while the average player makes a paltry 4 million must chap your a$$ all the while playing a game
April 21st, 2020 at 12:48 PM ^
That has literally nothing to do with the question I asked.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:53 AM ^
Agree.
CEOs rake in 940% more than 40 years ago, while average workers earn 12% more
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ceo-pay-in-940-more-than-40-years-ago-workers-make-12-more/
I don't think CEOs just drink champagne and golf all the time, but they have the same 24 hours in a day. Most probably work 2-3x as much as the average American. Obviously their work is more important than the average employee's, but I don't see the justification for astronomically higher salaries.
I just don't understand how a bunch of dudes on a football forum seem to gleefully defend CEO salaries. Is this part of the American dream? Do people believe their time is coming? One day they will be the CEO making millions?
April 21st, 2020 at 11:51 AM ^
Because I know how invaluable a capable CEO is to a large corporation, which in turn allows people like me to have job security and make a good living. Slash his salary, and a less competent person comes in to fill the void.
April 21st, 2020 at 12:39 PM ^
This exactly. I have zero desire to be a CEO, even at their salary.
Everyone on here bitching about CEO pay probably logs off for the day at 5pm and then works again starting 8am the next day.
CEOs are on the clock 24/7, they don't have a life. Most people would last 1 week in these jobs.
That's fine - but what if he's overpaid? Even if he is competent - is he really worth 900% of the average salary so you and others can have job security? That might not be the most efficient use of resources. And how do we know that a lower paid person is less competent? That might not necessarily be the case.
There are plenty of very expensive and very incompetent executives out there. We shouldn't buy into this myth that they're all efficient and brilliant decision makers. I also don't understand why corporations try to cut costs with everything else but executive pay. It's like there's this assumption that if you pay them more they'll do a better job.
CEOs have enormous influence on the companies they manage. They might not be drastically better at managing companies than you or me, but the extra little bit they do provide can equal hundreds of millions of dollar in revenue for their companies. They necessarily command a sizable percentage of that as salary, otherwise they'll bring their $100M in incremental revenue to another company that's willing to pay them better.
Harbaugh makes 50x most high school football coaches. Is he 50x better at coaching? Of course not. But if having Harbaugh as coach means you get two more wins than you would have with a run-of-the-mill high school coach, that can equal tens of millions in additional revenue for the athletic program.
Harbaugh gets a huge multiple of the average coach's salary not because he's a huge multiple better but because he provides a multi-million dollar value to the athletic program. The same is true for most other executives.
Just a bunch of boot lickers that think that one day they will be making millions, so this stuff directly applies them.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:57 AM ^
Do you even know why CEOs pay has exploded recently? There are all sorts of studies that have shown that public disclosure of CEO pay has been the catalyst for massive increases as companies compete on salary for the best CEOs.
When salary was private information, this had a partially damping effect.
It's another case of the government fucking up anything it touches: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/8/17212796/ceo-pay-ratio-corporate-governance-wealth-inequality
April 21st, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
So the Dodd-Frank Act, signed in 2010, is the reason for this disparity? Hmmm...
April 21st, 2020 at 11:17 AM ^
Good ole Gringrich/Reagonomics enabled by Bill Clinton fucking us til this day.
April 21st, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
It wasn't enabled by Clinton. It was actually continued by Clinton
April 21st, 2020 at 12:22 PM ^
I don't want to persuade you that Gingrich/Reagan were correct, because I despise political parties. I only say this as a way to convince you that your very obviously partisan view seems preposterous, and that you may want to reconsider. You're throwing out reason and logic in buckets to fit the world into your political view.
Because here's the thing: Reagan was 40 years ago, and Gingrich hasn't seen power since the 90's. The period since Reagan has seen 16 years of Democratic presidents and 16 years of Republican. The House since Gingrich has been dominated by Dems then Reps and now Dems again. Anything you say about Gingrich could be offset by the other side hollering about Pelosi, except she's still around.
The point: you are very partisan, but you don't seem to understand your party's accountability for the graph above. They all allowed it to happen. You can't assign Reagan/Gingrich with some mystical power to enact policy that those in your party cannot undo. They all made the choices to get this country where it is. You guys are to blame, those guys are to blame. Both sides are mess, it's seems ridiculous to believe in either party at this point.
Uhh didn’t I say enabled by Bill Clinton?
Then you find out this guy, Vermin Supreme, who consistently wears a boot on his head, is leading the Libertarian Primaries.
Thank you.
Also the disclosure rule had nothing to do with it. And guess who fought that rule tooth and nail? Big business and corporate executives.
April 21st, 2020 at 12:50 PM ^
Whenever there is this discussion about CEO incomes arises I have to respond with an allegory.
Corporation Evilus Bigass needs a new CEO. There are two remaining candidates.
Candidate A makes his pitch to the board and says, hire me for $5M/year and I can increase corporate profits by $10M per year for 5 years
Candidate B makes his pitch, and says I can increase profits by $40M for 3 years, but I will cost you $20M/year
From a fiduciary perspective the board has no choice but to take Candidate B even though it contributes to the "wage gap"
Now you can get into the arguments about how realistic the claims of the candidates are, and that is a source of several business flameouts, but the fact remains the compensation packages for corporate execs are not related to wage earners in any real construct. They are based on a perception of performance. Also, most of them are not in dollars anyway, but in the form of equity instruments like treasury stock so that has a radically different impact than taking casj out of th etill
I love how you acknowledge that perception of performance is often bullshit, but then completely discount it like it doesn’t matter. From a fiduciary perspective, what should matter is actual performance, not perception of performance. If it doesn’t, that is a big part of the problem.
Entitlement much? So, by your logic this economy would collapse on its head if we did not pay CEOs in the millions. AND to boot, you think one man, generally just a shrewd business man with likely an MBA, giving the effort you described above is actually worth 10-20x more than the cardio surgeon that has a far more complex, difficult and important job.
congrats society, your brainwashing is taking hold well.
Yet CEOs in other economies run just as large multinational companies, just as successfully... for significantly less compensation.
Out of curiosity which country has better run companies than the US? And by what measure?
He didn't say better, he said just as well. Are you saying Germany's companies aren't run as well? They certainly have much lower CEO compensation. If so, how are you measuring that?
Absolutely. So many issues where Americans just like to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Nope, we've got to give CEOs insanely large compensation packages. We wouldn't want to turn into a Germany when it comes to business for God's sake.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:09 AM ^
"And the trees are all kept equal with hatchet, axe, and saw."
Too bad you envy those who work harder than you for higher wages.
By the way, I'll let you in a dirty little secret: even in "socialist" countries, there are wage disparities. Wage gaps don't go away just because you change your economic system. The difference being that, under national socialism, a far greater of the populace is equalized in their poverty (USSR, China, North Korea, Venezuela).
Better be careful what you wish for; you just might get it.
I don't think anyone is arguing for eliminating wage gaps altogether. No one is denying there are gaps like this in other countries - of course there are. But what we're arguing is that these massive gaps between executive and average worker pay are unreasonable, disproportionate and unsustainable.
We don't envy those who "work harder". We find it hard to believe that someone can work 900% harder than everybody else.
Nobody is claiming they work 9000% harder.
Does Lebron work 2000% harder than GR3? Clearly not, but that doesn't mean Lebron should have his salary cut down to GR3's.
Well actually - JDA said that those CEOs do in fact work harder than everyone else and that's why they're worth so much. And that's why we "envy" them. I say their worth - especially in relation to the average worker - is debatable. Of course, they don't really do a disproportionate share of the work and these companies literally couldn't function without hundreds and thousands of other people. So, how do we reward the top execs at a rate proportional to their value?
Again - I'm not calling for equal pay (Lebron should of course make more than GRIII - how much more is the question - but then again that is not really an apt analogy because that is player-to-player rather than exec-to-employee). What most of us here are saying is that CEO pay is way out of proportion to what it used to be and should be.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:19 AM ^
Yes, this. To the extent it highlights the massive gap between the c-suite and working level, it can help. Income inequity absolutely must be addressed.
I saw Warde Manual took a 5% pay cut on his $900K+ salary and it seemed preposterous.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:22 AM ^
Why does it matter to you what somebody else makes? Manuel making less does not automatically equate to somebody else making more.
The greed and envy in some of the people here against people who work for what they get is preposterous.
You don't help society by punishing success.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
I'm not a socialist by any means. I agree with the comment above about CEOs having their lives consumed by work. I agree they should make large sums of money.
Not at the levels they are now, relative to workers. They have gamed the system and rigged it in their favor. The haves will always do this to the have nots, but in the US it's gone to obscene levels.
Attributing my view to envy or greed is inaccurate. I grew up with a fortunate background, took advantage, and have done well for myself. I see lots of opportunities to make room for more people to do the same. Some part of that solution needs to be reducing the elites hoarding 90% of the world's wealth.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
yes.... it sickening that CEO's who are responsible for the operation of the entire corporation make more money than the janitorial staff..... equal pay for everyone! <sarcasm>
demonizing those who've achieved success is the preferred tool of those who haven't.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
Who the fuck is saying equal pay?
It should be appropriate pay. Look at Japan if you want to see more level headed ethical wage structure.
April 21st, 2020 at 12:22 PM ^
Isn't Japan one of the most expensive places in the world to live? I'll take whatever our market dictates for the cost of labor in all positions. Pretty easy concept.
April 21st, 2020 at 10:53 AM ^
CEO’s talk about vision for the company, they don’t execute the operation at all
We all work for what we have, so relax. But most of us don't have the ability to essentially set our own salary. It's not greed and envy to point out that a lot of people in this country make too much, they are definitely not worth that much and its probably not the best use of resources. And this has been a contributing factor in inequality for years. Those are all facts.
And yes what someone else makes matters - especially if its in the athletic department of a large state university or in publicly traded company. Because yes that money can and should be used to pay others, especially others who may be underpaid.
Jesus, no one is punishing success. The question is how much should we reward it, potentially at the expense of others who may be deserving. It's not that hard.