Bad takes go here to be exposed later: JJ McCarthy
Right, so, I've had it. First JJ was underrated, and so now apparently he's overrated, because this is 21st century America and there is no golden mean. The same people that thought Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield [ed: long string of failures deleted here, highlighted by, but certainly not limited to, JaMarcus Russell], Tim Couch, Akili Smith, and Ryan Leaf were all can't-miss prospects, now think JJ is overrated.
I lost it in this pile-on from CBS Sports:
J.J. McCarthy is going to go way higher than he should
J.J. McCarthy isn't a top-10-caliber talent
...he is a late first-round pick, and any team who takes him in the first half of the first round is reaching.
J.J. McCarthy will be in drafted too high because of 'sheep syndrome'
McCarthy is a good player, one who might be worthy of being drafted in the back end of the first round. But a top-10 pick? Please.
This is a convenient jumping-off point because three different guys [Jeff Kerr, Garrett Podell, Pete Prisco) all pile on here (initially included Bryan DeArdo but he wasn't so bad).
Post all the terrible JJ assessments you've come across ('they never threw the ball!' 'muh counting stats!') here so we can find them to mock them later, like we Bills fans do with the people who thought Josh Allen was turrible.
Is that you 97.1 the ticket?
No QB in this draft is a sure thing. Nobody knows if JJ will be successful but if Anthony Richardson was a Top 5 pick, JJ can be a Top 5 pick.
Zach Wilson at #2 and Trey Lance at #3 agree
The smart money will draft JJ high. JJ is full of talent, work ethic and maturity.
Ignore the click bait aholes trying to earn a buck.
I think JJ has a ton of upside, but I do think it’s a risk going top 10. But that’s also true of any draft pick ever. I’ve seen worse piling on than these takes. And they are still saying first round. If they said late rounds (like after Penix), then I’d be more pitchfork-y.
I hate when someone says "X is overrated" or "Y is underrated". It presumes they know the actual "rating" of the person and thus can accurately assess the difference. Just say what you think of the person in absolute terms, or in comparison to something real (like an actual other person).
Unpopular opinion: people who preface their opinions with "unpopular opinion" are just trying to appeal to the righteous contrarian that lives inside all of us.
On his podcast a while ago, Bill Simmons said he hopes the Patriots don't talk themselves into JJ McCarthy. Ryen Rusello (I think) then said something to the effect of the reason JJ didn't throw more in college is because he wasn't good enough and people shouldn't make excuses for his lack of pass attempts by saying it was a system thing. And I just thought to myself, have these guys never watched a Jim Harbaugh offense? I mean, Bill Simmons admits he doesn't watch college football, but he watched the 49ers.... My own hope for JJ is that he goes into an Aaron Rodgers / Jordan Love situation where he goes to a good team, learns the offense as the understudy, and then comes in and slays. I worry about him being too slight and injury prone right now -- being a rookie starter on a bad team often means playing behind a bad offensive line that doesn't give a QB time to develop and exposes him to injury.
Pats are a freaking mess right now. I hope for JJs sake the pats listen to their fans because I don’t want JJ to go there.
Bill Simmons hasn’t said anything intelligent in about two decades.
April 19th, 2024 at 12:27 PM ^
You're probably off by a couple decades.... Simmons is a self-important dip shit!
Another issue right now is short sightedness. All the writers and pundits are going to treat any rookie QB that doesn’t have a CJ Stroud type season as a bust. Maybe Caleb and Maye will get a “give him a year or two” treatment, but the others, should they go high, won’t. And the reason is exactly like another poster said: negativity generates clicks.
CJ Stroud continues to look for gold pants
I don't know if JJ will be an all time great, an all pro or just another journeyman QB. What I do know is he has athletic ability, can throw the ball on a dime and he has one of the highest football IQ's I've laid eyes on. At the end of the day, he will lay it all on the line to win and will do whatever it takes to do so, even hand the ball of 30+ times straight. Thats a guy I want on my team.
A lot will depend on where he goes and what he is surrounded with.
I think Tom Brady would be selling insurance if the Lions had drafted him.
What the hell is a Pete Prisco?
Well, there's dumb, and there's Pete Prisco dumb. Listen to about 30 seconds of him delivering hot takes and you'll fully comprehend.
There is no reason to get frustrated about NFL QB draft grades, predictions or mocks. No one actually knows which qb's will be good or serviceable NFL QB's. All predictions are BS and it's much more of a crapshoot than anyone will admit, even with the trail of woe at the Top Five QB pick history.
JJ may be a future HOF'er and he may flame out. No one knows and it can't be predicted. For the record, I think he will last in the NFL for quite a while and there is a good chance he is a starter in the top half of the league.
Said something like this in the last JJ thread:
If you make a Big Board, I don't know where JJ goes, but I'm sure it's nowhere near #5. But the draft isn't based on the Big Board, especially with QB. People saying JJ is late first round or 2nd round struggle with understanding this.
They look at Kirk Cousins or Brock Purdy (if you project that as a JJ comp) and are like, those guys went in the 4th and 7th round! Yeah, so what? If they were in this draft right now they would go high in the first round.
Everyone could try to be like, oh, well, JJ isn't true first-round value so Imma gonna wait to draft him and get my forever QB in the 2nd where his true value is. Except then someone else will take him before that happens because he's a QB.
There are only 32 starters and you kind of have to have a Top 12 guy and it's even better when they're on rookie contracts. I don't understand why people are freaking out about JJ going Top 5.
Exactly. The best way to build a great team these days is gettng an above-average QB on his rookie contract, and spending money on the pieces around him. So teams are over-drafting QBs (knowing that they're over-drafting him, but taking the risk, because if he does work out, its a huge Win).
Remember that sports journalists’ top priority is NOT to make accurate predictions nor assessments: their top priority is to drive clicks. They’ll hype or drag anyone in pursuit of their precious clicks.
This isn’t limited to JJ McCarthy: every so often you come across an article which says that Caleb Williams - the first pickest of first picks that ever got picked first - doesn’t deserve to go first overall.
My favorite bad take is Lance Zierlein at NFL.com.
The crown jewel is: "Modest arm strength might be magnified by windup in his delivery."
lolwut
Yeah, it's mostly the same guys with dipshit opinions about other teams turning their stupidity toward McCarthy. Like, Tom Fornelli said "I like Quinyon Mitchell and his tape but when was the last time a top-level corner came from the MAC?" but seemingly not applying the same logic to Sauce Gardner, another G5 corner who sure seemed like a capable first-round corner.
One of them loves Penix quite a bit for reasons I don't understand; we saw what happens when teams get pressure on him and it's the Michigan game, the ASU game, hell even Wazzou got after him a bit. He's going to be 24 when he takes his first NFL snap, which is 2 years younger than Lamar Jackson and a year younger than guys like Herbert, Jordan Love, Tua, etc. Bo Nix is even older. McCarthy, by comparison, would be 21 and has shown an ability to scramble and make plays out of the playcall and with (relatively) limited WRs.
McCarthy feels like the 3rd-best QB in this class unless you REALLY believe that Daniels can get away with everything he did at LSU in the NFL. No Kelly-coached QB has AFAIK, but I guess there's a first time for everything. I could even buy McCarthy as #2 if you're down on Williams, who I think has the widest variance of elite-to-headcase QB in this class. But none of the QBs in this class feel like sure things, and in an objective non-needs world I'd probably draft Harrison Jr. first and welcome a HOFer onto my team happily. But that's not the world we live in and if I'm, say, the Giants and I can get McCarthy to replace what is objectively a bad QB in Daniel Jones in a year or 2 I'd jump at it.
There's a reason JJ is considered a bit of an enigma, though. Michigan simply didn't rely on him to win games the way the other QBs were relied upon, and with our stellar running backs and tight ends and award-winning offensive lines — not to mention some seriously questionable throws in the playoffs (the first pass of the Alabama game, for instance, as well as his third down pass on the last drive of regulation, and even the downfield throw to Wilson which was so close to being picked off) — our offense simply didn't need him (or allow him) to put up massive stats. I can understand why nobody's quite sure what to make of him.
He's a phenomenal athlete, however, with simply every tool you could ever want, he led Michigan to three straight playoffs and a national title, and he seems fully committed to the team's success, whatever it takes, which I would imagine NFL scouts would really value.
It's funny. I could legitimately see him being drafted anywhere in the first 15 picks ... including No.1 — except that no coach and general manager would dare risk the fan backlash by drafting him first. It's going to be fun to see where he goes and watch him in the NFL, but I'd be lying if I said I knew for sure he'd be a great success.
As for what the journalists say ... why does anyone care? Everything meaningful that can be said about these players has already been said, so their job, at this point in the process, is simply to grab attention and generate clicks about the upcoming draft. The idea that so many Michigan fans get actively outraged about this stuff is highly entertaining.
Regardless of where he’s drafted, we’ll know soon enough whether JJ will be a successful NFL quarterback.
Ryan Leaf: 1st round
Tom Brady: 6th round
In other words, these pundits don’t know jack.
I saw one just today saying he shouldn't even be a first round pick. I mentally blocked the site for all our sake's.
Bert Breer of NFL Network has been dumping on JJ. Said "spoke to a GM, I wouldn't take him in the 4th round and hope Washington does so I have better player to pick". Spilled the same BS on Boston media where he lives. Hey dipshit Bert, take off the OSU, Natty stained and smelled gear off!!!
Baker doesn't belong on that list in the OP. Mahomes he is not but much of issues can be traced to injuries. He's had some good seasons and last year's bounce back was a helluva "comeback".
I don't understand how some of the media and folks on a platforms can say and opine about notions of "hiding" JJ or "you can't blame the system for his lack of throws, he's just not that talented"....IF THEY'VE EVER WATCHED A BASIC HIGHTLIGHT TAPE.
I don't care about opinions on him not being worthy of a top-10 pick (frankly I question it myself but neither here nor there) but my gawd pals don't back it up with bullshit that doesn't even add up. The ability of JJ to make throws (roll-out, throw on the run, etc.) has been showcased enough times that not ruining our season via a Chop Robinson hit doesn't take a genius to realize that that wasn't a JJ talent/gamer issue.
I mean .......... not everyone is going to be a believer in every former Wolverine being an NFL success. And who cares regardless?
Let's say JJ McCarthy is absolutely terrible in the NFL. Let's say he makes Ryan Leaf look like a Hall of Fame candidate.
What does that matter as regards his legacy and impact at Michigan?
I get the homer perspective, the kid played at UM, had a tremendous career, national title season, etc. And he seems to be a legitimately good person.
But yeah, as a Lions fan I'm not gonna care a single bit if he gets drafted #1 or inexplicably becomes Mr. Irrelevant (unless the Lions are still stockpiling luxury picks and decide to grab him). And in neither case does it predict his future success, or lack thereof.
Why do so many people take what these guys say seriously? It’s entertainment.
You know you can just not care about any of this stuff if you want. That’s an option, too.
I wish every Wolverine success in the NFL, but do I lose sleep if someone says they won’t pan out in the NFL? Naw
All draft talk is click-bait now and forever. I haven't clicked on one mock draft or article in years.
Im putting myself down. I love the kid and hope I’m wrong about everything but he forces the ball under pressure, never threw one single ball away in college because he thinks he can extend every play, etc. if the biggest Michigan fan can take off their homer glasses, michigans offense leaves open just a lot of questions because you really don’t know. Right now he is Zach Wilson to me which isn’t a negative by any means (as I think he was put in a fairly bad situation to develop)
NFL scouts are morons. JJ has looked like the most plug and play NFL ready QB since Luck. Maye is Trubisky 1.1
Yeah what did Burrow and Lawrence ever do in college....
Mr. Irrelevant played in the Super Bowl. Tom Brady was no. 199. Commentators and scouts know nothing, NOTHING!
Reality is no one knows until they get to the NFL - by year 2 you sort of know.
I’d rather just spend my time rewatching Michigan win the 2023 national championship.
April 18th, 2024 at 10:19 PM ^
He won't sign my balls-Paul Finebaum.
Boston media is absolutely killing JJ disgusted by the possibility that the Pats are considering him at 3. Heads will explode faster than a remake of the 80's movie Scanners if he goes to the Pats over Drake "BUST" Maye. Actually that would be a great thing.... As a Pats fan I hope and pray that they draft Bust Maye. JJ is not deserving of BS and ranker of this awful fan and media base. Get ready Pats fans, by October T-shirts will be printed "Ache for Arch!"
Ah, the self-licking ice cream cone of NFL draft coverage. A bunch of journalists and commentators covering what each other says, as if it was "news" that has any meaning.
Dang, double post. I blame the poor cell connection.
Is JJ one of the top 5 most talented players in this draft? No, he's probably somewhere in the 15-25 range.
Are quarterbacks routinely over-drafted? Yes, partly because QB is the leader of your team, but mostly because having a great QB on a rookie contract is the best way to build a team these days, so teams take more risks there.
Could JJ be an All-Pro type QB in the NFL? Abso-fucking-lutely
His only slight flaw may be 50 + yard inaccuracy at times. But this could be partly fault of our WR. Put JJ with OSU WRs, I think you would see a lot more deep passing yards.
April 19th, 2024 at 10:18 AM ^
My favorite "bad take" was Mel Kiper's "I was waiting on him" and "he never did anything to show me he belongs" in the top group of QBs. He qualified it that he might have it in him, but he didn't see enough and then talked about Penix making a 100 4th quarter throws and JJ only making 30. He left out that that was because we were curb stomping people and JJ had managed the game up to that point that his services were no longer needed. He left out the one handed grab and across the body deep throw to save the game. Left out all of the precision throws that were NFL accurate and velocity. Usually like Mel for service he provides but he's wrong on this one.
April 19th, 2024 at 10:47 AM ^
I really hope he goes to Minnesota. I think that will be the best place for any of these QB's to acclimate to the NFL.
April 19th, 2024 at 10:49 AM ^
Put it on the board; JJ will have a better NFL career than Jaden Daniels.