Anyone else concerned about the Army game?
The other issue, is the lack of home field advantage. Nobody is going to yell "you suck" to the Army and I think people won't scream their asses off on important 3rd down plays. Even the chanting/ screaming when they have a fumble/ pick will be muted.
If the fans feel this way, how do the UM players feel?
Ask the guys from 2017 who played Air Force. Didn't seem to slow Winovich, Gary, Hurst, or Bush down any.
The "you suck" chant provides little (if any) home field advantage. Crowd noise is the primary factor in home field advantage and for the majority of the crowd, they will treat Army just like any other black and gold school (see UCF for a recent example).
I am worried about the triple option against a lot of new defensive starters. That is multitudes more tricky to deal with than a slightly muted home crowd.
The Big House will be rocking. No worries on that front.
I'm all for kids doing crazy things, but the 'you suck' yell is unnecessary and stupid. Most of our fans over the age of 35 don't know what it is anyway.
i don't think that's true. I'm 35, and the "you suck" was going strong while I was a student. That one has been around a good while.
Yup... classless, and tacky at best. When DID that become a "think"?
Didn't start going back for games until 2012/14 and I remember the first time I heard that, made me wince. It's something Sparty or OSU would do...
Keep it classy M
Some of you dorks should start being fans of yachting or golf. This is football - a game where primarily low income kids give themselves CTE for our enjoyment and the chance to get more CTE in the NFL.
A "You Suck", or even (god forbid) a "Fuck You" chant is meaningless.
a "Fuck You" chant is meaningless.
Today's board would have a collective meltdown at what happened in 1991 v FSU. 60 minutes of "fuck the Seminoles (or semenholes)" to the cadence of their tomahawk chop -- with middle fingers extended.
I was a srudent right in the middle of that . . . good times. Other than team playing badly.
Please go back and watch every game against a service academy played in the last, oh....15 years? There are a lot of close games in there with very good Michigan teams that had no business sweating a service academy, at least not on paper, but struggled anyway.
The games are always nerve wracking due to the unique nature of their triple-option offense that isn't something the team is necessarily geared toward stopping from a scheme perspective and perhaps also from a talent perspective (i.e. a bunch of top-notch pass rushers won't help you much here).
Games against service academies are very typically high-risk, low-reward endeavors (FU Dave). High-risk because if you don't take the time in practice to counter their schemes, you are rolling the dice on getting upset. Low-reward because when you do win, everyone goes "meh, service academy."
Personally, I can't sleep very well the night before any game, so yeah I'll worry but not until September. Enjoy you Friday in May boys and girls and have Margarita tonight tomorrow and Saturday. Lay off of them on Sunday because we have work the next day.
For me the concern comes from the fact their strengths match up perfectly with Michigan's glaring weakness. They are a service academy that Michigan routinely seems to struggle with, and they have rush offense that returns a lot of experience and will be facing an unproven, inexperienced, and YOUNG Michigan DL. So there's a good chance they'll be able to hold on to the ball for a good 35-40+min in the game. They had it for almost 45min in the Oklahoma game.
And yeah, yeah time of possession is meaningless, but as good as Michigan's revamped offense might be, if the defense can't get off the field that's gonna be a problem.
I'm only worried about our knees with that bullshit blocking scheme. Seriously, if I was every P5 team I would refuse to schedule them while they play that brand of football.
No they don't. I was gonna put a diary on this together but Open Live Writer doesn't work, but they return like 12-14 if I remember correctly.
Army lost 7 defensive starters alone. That was a 15-second Google search. I love this place.
Yeah, according to ESPN they return seven on offense, six on defense. Why does everyone keep saying they return all their starters? Where the hell is that coming from?
If Army is anything like Air Force, they rotate heavily and thus that may be a source of confusion. That said, Academies ALWAYS have high turnover as they necessarily rely on playing Juniors and Seniors, it is the rare Sophomore and even rarer Freshman that rises to prominence on an Academy team.
Ditto, right here.
They're actually only 102nd in returning defensive production, so about the same attrition on that side of the ball as us. ESPN has them as returning 13 of 22 starters, but ESPN is sometimes off here (ESPN has us at 13 of 22 as well, but I think we are 14 or 14.5 really if you count Stueber starting the last 3 games).
They lose their top tackler in James Nachtigal, and they lose 4 of their top 10 tacklers who combined for 198 of their 627 team tackles last year. Those 4 top tacklers also combined for 16 of their 26 team sacks last year, so they lose a lot of their QB pressure pieces. They also lose a 950 yard rusher.
So yes, while they return most of their offense, they do lose some key contributors. I would say they're actually a lot like us. Offense is almost all back, but they've lost some playmakers on defense.
Yeah, I think Michigan will win because of that. But only if the defense is able to hold them at bay while the offense pours it on against an inferior team.
It needs to be the opposite game plan they've had the last few years. Instead of leaning on the defense to suffocate them and play conservative ball control with the offense, they are going to need to be aggressive and look to score often and hope the defense can get enough wins.
Basically try and win the game 45-31 instead of 20-14.
I agree, but I still don't think Army gets 20 points. Not an official prediction, but I'd guess it's something like 42-17. I just don't see it being too close, and I think by the end their defense will be dog tired.
The game is 128 days away, so no I'm not concerned. Ask again in 122 days.
It's May 2nd.
The Army game is September 7th.
Call me crazy, but I kind of want to see how the summer and fall camp turn out before I commit to an answer on this one. I realize that will be seen as weaseling out answering, but on the 2nd of May, I haven't the data to form an opinion.
What! Not having a knee-jerk reaction, but instead waiting until you have more evidence before offering an intelligent opinion?
This is the internet, dammit! It's no place for rational thought.
You're crazy
Yes, but a good early test. In a bout of excitement for some available tickets I decided to make this my kids first game, 7 and 5. In retrospect them watching me nervously pace, stand, clap for what is likely to be a tough game wasn’t well thought out.
Sure. But I'm "guessing" that Army has much greater reason to be "concerned" about Michigan.
Yet for them there is nothing to lose and a huge amount to gain. For us it is exactly the opposite. Which is why it is always bad to play service academies.
The other issue we should never forget is that the academies cut block ferociously. So there is a much increased risk to injury to our defensive line.
Week 2 - so only a week to prep for their offense? I'm sure D Brown will prep plenty for them through the fall.
As with a lot of service academies and these old school wing-t/wishbone based offenses, it always seems to take a quarter or two to get the hang of it. Eventually if everyone keeps contain, the better players start to take over.
A few years ago they prepped for the Air Force game a few weeks before the season started so yes they will have more than just one week to prepare for Army's unique offense.
Triple Option? Just 3 options?
#SpeedInSpace!
Our three options are better than their three options.
[that should be on a t-shirt. like the ones they sell next to the tracks near Hoover]
Let's see:
Returning a boatload of starters, took Oklahoma to OT on the road last year, we have one week to prepare for triple option with an extremely thin DL, they will very likely be ranked to start the year, they put up 70 on Houston in a bowl game, they have a very good coach, and oh yeah, none of them will be even remotely intimidated walking into the Big House. I wouldn't be either if my day job was training to fight and kill terrorists.
So yeah....I am concerned about that game. Army will be coming into that game not just expecting to compete, but expecting to win. That game may very well come down to the final minutes of the fourth quarter.
As an Academy grad, I say this with love and respect for what the Cadets go through on a daily basis, it's not easy(that said its not harder than going to class while maintaining a full time job at a civilian institution, something I know a ton of people on the board have done) and it certainly comes with different expectations.
BUT
Their day job is going to class and then football practice, with MAYBE a little marching practice thrown in for good measure. What they are manifestly NOT doing is any sort of combat training, outside of maybe some heavily controlled summertime activities. The fun stuff doesn't start until after graduation.
He is correct as I was there when Wariner was there. We had a good team, even almost beating Alabama in the John Hancock bowl. There was no combat training lol.
Well, there is Camp Buckner after plebe year. While I wouldn't call that combat training per se, it is a familiarization to combat training. It certainly is true that the real combat training comes during their officer's basic course after graduation. West Point is first and foremost a university, and a great one, too.
Surprised that a Big 12 defense struggled with a triple option? OU had some dumb mistakes and missed a FG to win at the end before taking it in OT. Houston had quit on their coach before the bowl game and was a 4 loss team with no good wins. I’m not saying army can’t play us tough - they might - but I think you can look as much at Army’s loss to Duke and limping victories over the other service academies, Hawaii, and Miami of OH and say they really played one good game last year and OU was probably my not prepared for them.
This is a total concern troll.
Michigan can get into a mud fight with no problems and service academies have given Oklahoma fits for years.
In order to beat them you have to shut down the up the middle runs by the fullbacks(the foundation of the Triple Option) with your Defensive Line and then have fast linebackers and good tackling safeties to get to the edge and handle the QB and the pitch man(Looks at roster > Sees Carlo Kemp and Donovan Jeter at DT, then checks linebacker and safety depth charts). Yep we're okay there. Army's dirty secret is they don't throw the ball and if you'll recall the Air Force game from a few years ago, Air Force scored on a pass play.
Army is a fine team, but this is going to go like the '15 BYU game, a murderizing of the team everyone decided to be concerned about in the offseason.
Remember a year ago when the concern trolls were telling us we should worry about the Nebraska game?
Maybe they had us confused with MSU?
Yes and no.
Ed Oliver didn't play in that bowl game and Houston had already thrown Applewhite under the bus. They were a dysfunctional team that had kind of given up.
Their best result the entire season was the loss to Oklahoma. Otherwise they played teams like Liberty, Hawaii, Lafayette, Colgate (FCS), Navy was 3-10, and they lost to Duke.
OU score on 4/8 possessions, all in under 4 minutes. They also had a failed 4th & Goal at the Army 1 yard line and threw an INT at Army's 15. The were carving Army's defense apart.
The problem OU ran into was their defense sucked and was coached by an idiot (Mike Stoops - who was later fired). Army held onto the ball for 45 minutes, mostly through 4 drives of 9+ minutes (some eclipsing 10) and 8+ plays (1 went 13 or 14 plays IIRC). Army was 17/26 on 3rd and 4th down conversions which is just nuts. They basically went 3-4 yards every play.
Michigan has to replace 4-5 guys who matter against Army. Bush, Winovich, Mone/Marshall, and Gary (Long doesn't matter as much because they don't pass). The coaching here is significantly better (and has seen triple option teams) and part of beating triple option teams is playing your assignment, something Michigan can do and OU did not do.
I don't doubt it will be an uncomfortable half or 3/4 of a football game, but Michigan should win by 2 scores. The offense will put up points and the defense just has to not be Mike Stoops-Oklahoma levels of bad.
I was significantly more worried about this game before we changed offensive coordinators, primarily because there could have been a total of 8 possession combined leaving little to no room for error. Now, not so much since we should have a faster moving, higher octane offense that everyone doesn't have to be perfect on every play. Can still see army getting 14-21 points though.
No, the only teams that scare me are the ones with elite spread offenses. You know, the ones that can run slants and crossing routes with receivers that run sub 4.4 second 40s.
If the shiny new offense goes three and out a few times to start the first half, then yes, Michigan will be in a lot of trouble. Otherwise, hope the cut blocks from Army's O-Line don't take any D-Line starters away for the next game at Camp Randall.
Metellus is the biggest weakness on defense, since they are triple option, hopefully he won’t be exposed easily
??
Gil or Ross not being able to process stuff as fast as Bush and get to the ball carrier is a bigger problem. Metellus generally doesn't bust on plays by completely screwing up his reads. He gets out ran by guys like Paris Campbell, but I don't remember a bunch of plays go for 15+ because Metellus ran after the wrong guy.
Metellus is one of our best players on defense. Not sure what you’re watching.
I watched him get dusted regularly against legit offenses last year. Who cares that he had a pick six against SMU? Come on. He got dusted in the spring game regularly and at one point tackled his own teammate which led to a touchdown. He is not good. We are in big trouble if he is one of the better players.