[LOCKED?] COVID In FORIDA – An Update for Those Traveling to the Orange Bowl

Submitted by jbuch002 on December 25th, 2021 at 9:19 AM

I live in Fort Lauderdale and will be in attendance at the Orange Bowl for the UGA/M CFB Semi-final in Miami on January 31st. I'm a retired Physician Assistant with 22y of practice experience in Emergency Medicine. I study and write extensively about COVID.

Right now, FL is experiencing large numbers of new COVID cases. The reporting of new case numbers without context can lead to the perception that something like the Bubonic Plague is afflicting South FL. I’d like to rationally allay that view and any accompanying fear with some facts.

There are several reasons for the increase in COVID cases: With the holidays upon us, more people, even those that are asymptomatic are getting tested and more COVID cases are being detected. The percent positivity rate in Miami-Dade Co. is 15% indicating that the SARS-CoV2 virus is widely circulating. While the Omicron variant is present in S. FL and rapidly trending to replace Delta, Delta remains predominant.

During the current period of rapidly increasing case numbers (nearly vertical slope of the curve) which began accelerating about 3w ago, deaths and hospitalizations have held steady at low rates. This has been the pattern of Omicron globally and anecdotally indicates Omicron does not induce more serious COVID symptoms than its predecessors. The data is catching up and is supportive of the anecdotal picture.

Break through infections (for those with 2 shots) are producing about 30% of the new cases in Miami Dade Co. As a general rule, this number should not be applied across populations. That’s because the public is not privy to the medical conditions or immune system status of those that have been reinfected after vaccination. What we do know generally is that people who are healthy and developed an appropriate innate and adaptive immune response following vaccination are going to be spared reinfection.

Those who have been boosted account for less than 3% of new cases. New cases are concentrated in age groups that mirror vaccination rates. For example, there were 154 new COVID admissions in Miami Dade Hospitals. 101 of those are unvaccinated, 13 have been boosted (caveats apply), and 53 have had two shots. 89 are in the age group of 50 – to 89+. The rest are evenly distributed in younger age groupings. The median age of new cases is 34 with the highest percentage in the 19-34 age range (47%). 90% of those are unvaccinated. In that age group 20% required medical management.

FL in general and Miami Dade Co. in particular, are focused on effectively managing those who develop serious illness and require medical interventions. Messaging from local government is about dealing with the current increase in serious illness for new COVID cases and treating them. Public health officials and Miami Dade government are not talking about shutting down or restricting personal mobility and social contacts. The word is encouragement. Not the kind of handwringing discouragement – a fear inducing narrative - that we are hearing so much of from elsewhere.

 If you are under 50 and boosted, enjoy and use common sense by acting responsibly with regard to exposure risks. You know what those are. No need to repeat them. If you can find them, travel with self test kits. Other age groups and those with varying vaccination status need to assess their own exposure risks and act accordingly. Know that if you are vaccinated, healthy and under 50, if you do become infected with Omicron and develop COVID during your visit, symptoms will be mild and similar to the commonly induced cold symptoms of the standard Coronavirus family. Consider self testing and if positive for COVID, take appropriate actions to protect others around you from being infected by you.

Finally, if you are traveling to Miami to watch Michigan continue it’s march to the CFB NC, enjoy the game fearlessly.   

[Locked on 1/4/22, 2:20 pm.  The Orange Bowl has long since come and gone, and 'enough already!' as to the continued stalemate among those few still posting within this diary, including those who cling to "their side" at all costs]

blue in dc

December 25th, 2021 at 10:13 AM ^

For the 80% from 19 to 34 who were admitted for Covid, but did not require medical management, what does that mean?   Were they admitted for some non-covid reason and just tested positive as part of the admission proccess?

Joined: 01/22/2011

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BlueinKyiv

December 25th, 2021 at 11:42 AM ^

I also live in Broward County and just hosted a couple taking a 4-day break from working in arguably Michigan's most overwhelmed ER (Sparrow in Lansing) and can tell you that their verdict was that:

there is little difference from the current levels in Michigan and Florida (in fact, Florida is a little behind as it was in a Delta trough when the new Omicron wave hit. 

That said, I cannot pass without commenting on the OP's subtle reference to laissez fair responses to the epidemic:  

The word is encouragement. Not the kind of handwringing discouragement – a fear inducing narrative - that we are hearing so much of from elsewhere.

We are fast approaching a million dead Americans from COVID, while China has lost 4,500 lives.  I am an American vet who has lost friends and family to protect American freedoms, but safe spaces for those who have different beliefs is what is not working in fighting COVID.  

In the end, Americans should fearlessly head to the game Friday but your country also needs you to step up and fearlessly get routinely vaccinated to live prosperous and free lives with this mutating killer a permanent part of our lives moving forward. 

This message is approved by the Committee to Elect Donald Trump, the Committee to Elect Joe Biden, and the 2021 party platforms of both the Libertarian and Democratic Socialist parties. 

Joined: 04/05/2017

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Wendyk5

December 25th, 2021 at 12:50 PM ^

Until the scientific community comes up with a vaccine that covers all variants and is one-and-done, we have what we have. Nothing is permanent here, progress is happening. Two pills have just been emergency authorized. Walter Reed is working on the aforementioned vaccine. The polio vaccine wasn't built in a day. It took many years to finally develop the one that worked. 

Joined: 11/20/2008

MGoPoints: 67906

blue in dc

December 25th, 2021 at 2:41 PM ^

It is a darn shame that all the vaccines does is: make you significantly less likely to die, make you significantly less likely to get hospitalized, reduce your chances of getting it or passing it along.    For pretty much every metric that should matter for your health and the health of the ones around you, being vaccinated and boosted for covid provides significant benefit over not being vaccinated.

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

The Oracle 2

December 25th, 2021 at 4:40 PM ^

I’m in favor of you making whatever choice you want. Take 100 shots if you want. But to require others to take a vaccine that doesn’t work anywhere near as well as it was claimed it would, for a virus that isn’t a significant threat to the overwhelming majority, reveals either the irrational fear or penchant for authoritarianism (or both) of anyone who favors mandates.

What I do for my health is work out six days a week, eat well and stay lean. Given that 75% or so of those who end up hospitalized for Covid are obese, a lifestyle change would probably help them as much or more than the vaccines.

Joined: 02/25/2018

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blue in dc

December 25th, 2021 at 10:07 PM ^

What I would be in favor of is for any hospital that needs to ration healthcare because they are overwhelmed by Covid, the first criteria for rationing care is their vaccines status.   If it is so fine for everyone to make decisions with no consideration of the consequences on greater society, they should be ready to live with the consequences of those decisions.   

Joined: 01/22/2011

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carolina blue

December 26th, 2021 at 3:01 PM ^

That is fucked up beyond all kinds of fucked up. We don’t ration health care to literally anything else because of people’s own medical decisions.  If a hospital turned away a patient with life threatening illness because they needed to “ration the care” as you say, they would get sued and they would rightfully lose in spectacular fashion. A hospital cannot and should not be able to pick and choose who it does and does not care for. I cannot wrap my mind around this thought process. Go down that road and tell me where it ends, and don’t say that it’d be limited to this one thing. Things like that never stay limited to one instance.  
 

Now, I would be fine if a health insurance company were to deny coverage to such an individual. That’s perfectly fine.  But to deny care?  That’s just….very wrong. 

Joined: 02/12/2014

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blue in dc

December 26th, 2021 at 4:45 PM ^

Hospitals have literally been rationing care throughout this whole crisis.   Patients have been shipped hundreds of miles to find beds and some of them have died as a result.   And yes, I agree that is totally fucked up when we have a readily available vaccine that greatly reduces the need for hospitalization.

“During the current delta-driven Covid-19 wave, Americans are being transported hundreds of miles from their homesbecause no nearby hospital has room for them. Some of them have even died waiting for medical attention.”

https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/us-covid-19-hospitals-full-texas-alabama

Joined: 01/22/2011

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carolina blue

December 26th, 2021 at 4:49 PM ^

What’s fucked up is consciously denying care due to vaccine status, which is what was suggested. No one has been denied care because of that, and they never should be either. If the hospital is over-run and it’s not possible to give care, that’s wholly different. But actively denying it?  That’s just wrong. Very very wrong. 

Joined: 02/12/2014

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blue in dc

December 26th, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^

If the hospital is over run and care needs to be denied, how would you do it?

1. Last in gets denied?

2. Age?

3. Assessment of likelihood of survival?

They are all pretty fucked up choices.   Not clear why vaccine status is any more fucked up than any of the other options.   It is not like a random mass causality event.   Here, countless people made a conscious decision not to get vaccinated understanding the risk that placed our hospital system under.   

Joined: 01/22/2011

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blue in dc

December 26th, 2021 at 2:02 PM ^

I don’t know if I should feel jealous of you because somehow no one you care about has any types of congenital health issues that can’t be mitigated by eating healthy and working out or to feel sorry for you because it is not that you and all of your close friends and family did so well genetically, but rather because you have so few who are close to you that you really don’t know people who were born with heart conditions, autoimmune diseases or other things that make you particularly susceptible to covid.

I really could care less whether you personally ever have a serious health condition or whether your excellent health style choices immunize you from such problems.

I do however feel for all the people who do have underlying health conditions and all the medical workers who have to deal with the ramifications of the choices that you and others like you choose to make.   What amazes me even more is that you are clearly proud of the fact that you have given the middle finger to all of those people.    

From personal experience I can tell you that many of those with such pre-existing conditions don’t sit in their basements and live in fear, they take prudent precautions and do their best to live their lives.    As one of those people, I can share with you what my biggest fear is.   It is that one of my kids, who are also trying to live normal lives will, despite prudent precautions, unknowingly bring covid into our house.    While I realize that being triple boosted (and in reasonably good shape), I know my risks are still higher.    I fear dying from something that they bring into our house unknowingly and that I do die and it is a death they feel guilty about for the rest of their lives.

While you only have a small ability to mitigate that risk, the millions of people who think like you have a big ability to mitigate that risk.   They aren’t just mitigating that risk for me, they are mitigating it for thousands of moms and dads and sisters and brothers in situations much like mine.   They are also doing it for thousands of people who work in stores restaurants, factories etc, who have no choice but to accept the extra risk of exposure despite their medical risks because they need the money to feed their families.

It truly makes me sad that you think if only they would eat better and go to the gym more, all their problems would somehow magically go away.   I am guessing you have never experienced having to have open heart surgery months after your daughter was born or been unable to hold her for months because you were still recovering from having your ribs ripped apart.   While eating well and working out did make recovery quicker, there is no way it could have prevented needing the surgery in the first place.

I really wish you would reflect on people like me who are most likely your neighbors, coworkers or people you run into regularly in everyday living and think about whether an occasional vaccine shot is really that big a sacrifice.   Or maybe at least realize that every one of your covid posts is a big FU to any fellow mgobloggers who may have covid comorbitities or family or friends with them.

 

Joined: 01/22/2011

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The Oracle 2

December 26th, 2021 at 3:16 PM ^

I do feel for your situation. I also have an elderly mother who survived cancer a few years ago but is now healthy. Although she doesn’t agree with me about everything, she’s not in favor of others being required to be vaccinated, either. I did get the shot, but only because of the restrictions my employer was going to impose on me if i didn't. I won’t be getting a booster. I’m in a position where I can retire, if I have to.

I know that Covid is real, but I also believe the threat has been oversold. Two years in, it is still almost impossible to find accurate numbers that break down how many died because of Covid vs. how many died of something else while also having tested positive for Covid. This is also true for hospitalization/ICU numbers. Little effort has been made to break down co-morbidities among age groups, which would provide a more accurate picture of relative risk. I don’t think any of this is an accident.

I believe Covid has been a convenient excuse for the expansion of the power of governments. Locking people down, closing schools and businesses, and requiring the wearing of ineffective cloth and surgical masks have all been instituted as means of control, at least from the point where it became clear that none of them really worked, and that has been very clear for a long time. Time has shown there has been little difference in the impact of Covid between states and nations that have varied widely in their approaches. 
 

That it has been about control is also clear from the fact that collateral harms have been all but ignored; cancers and other serious health problems that haven’t been diagnosed, the mental health ramifications of the measures that have been instituted, the impact of lost jobs and businesses. And only a weak, narcissistic society would close schools and mask kids, a group that is at almost zero risk from Covid, to assuage the fears of nervous adults. Also ignored have been the rare but real side effects of the vaccine. Yes, people have died from reactions to it. 
 

I understand your concerns, but think about how the claims about what the vaccine can do have quickly changed. In the beginning, we were told that receiving it all but eliminated the possibility of getting Covid. Then came the booster and now multiple boosters, but vaxed and even boosted people are testing positive in greater and greater numbers, so I don’t think someone getting the shot or shots is really protecting you. I hope those you’ve received will help you, if you get it, and if a better vaccine is developed and governments stop lying, I’ll be on board. People need to be allowed to live their lives in freedom, however, and that is where most of my sympathies lie.

 

 

Joined: 02/25/2018

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blue in dc

December 26th, 2021 at 4:54 PM ^

I don’t know what you read, but it was very clear early on that the vaccine was never going to totally eliminate the chances of getting covid.    Excess mortality numbers do not show that covid deaths have been exaggerated.  

You talk about lying, almost all of your talking points are half truths.   There are a minuscule number of confirmed vaccine deaths.   The best way to get rid of masks is to get the friggin vaccine.  It is ironic that you and people like you, perpetuate the problems you blame on others and on a desire to control you,   

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

g_dubya

December 26th, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^

Wow!  So much garbage in so little space.  First, while it is impossible to get a completely accurate count of deaths/hospitalizations due to COVID, the facts are pretty clear that all of the numbers we do have are an undercount, not being oversold.

https://www.healthdata.org/special-analysis/estimation-excess-mortality-due-covid-19-and-scalars-reported-covid-19-deaths

"Little effort has been made to break down co-morbidities among age groups, which would provide a more accurate picture of relative risk"

Wrong again .... Just because you aren't aware of the effort doesn't mean it isn't happening.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

"surgical masks have all been instituted as means of control ... Time has shown there has been little difference in the impact of Covid between states and nations that have varied widely in their approaches. "

Wrong again ...

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/do-mask-policies-work-countries-with-them-had-lower-covid-death-rates-study-says/

"collateral harms have been all but ignored"

Once again, you seem to think that because you don't know about something, it isn't happening.   Collateral harms are being looked at everywhere.

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/13/what-were-some-of-the-collateral-effects-of-lockdowns
.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8138627/
.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34757223/

BTW, suicide rates are down but not sure how we know because it's being ignored, right?

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20211103/suicide-rates-2020-cdc

Finally, "we were told that receiving it all but eliminated the possibility of getting Covid."

That is just stupid.  No one told me that and if you heard that and believed it is clear why all of your information is so wrong.  You simply value "freedom" over "logic and reason."

https://eand.co/why-freedom-became-free-dumb-in-america-4947e39663f2 

Joined: 07/01/2011

MGoPoints: 1112

brad

December 26th, 2021 at 8:25 PM ^

You can't be seriously looking for information and talk like this.  There are excess death graphics and charts available everywhere.  Look around.  

You're also moving the goalposts around on vaccines.  Vaccines and boosters are keeping at-risk people from extremely bad outcomes like death from Covid.  For example, when the Delta variant rampaged through Florida earlier this year, something like 95% of those hospitalized due to covid were unvaccinated.  Delta and Omicron have both proven capable of breakthrough infections, but the rate of really bad outcomes is low for vaccinated people.

Finally, your arguments about things being ignored are all unanimously straw men.  People are still getting successful cancer treatments and probably more attention to their mental health than ever in human history, and the vaccine has not caused even a tiny fraction of the amount of death that covid has.

I'm glad that you're personally doing well, but read a little while you work out.  You'll be better for it.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 15806

Magnum P.I.

December 26th, 2021 at 9:44 PM ^

It's fascinating to me that there are people out there who really think like this. Really? Who, specifically, in "government" is champing at the bit to close down schools and businesses? I don't think anyone in either political party will win any popularity contests with their constituents by doing those things. To what end would they "control" people in this way? These thoughts seem to be borne more out of watching cable news than actually living out in the world or, moreso, being involved in civic life. 

Joined: 07/16/2009

MGoPoints: 30685

caliblue

December 30th, 2021 at 12:49 AM ^

I am an MD and the deniers continue to accuse us of overstating covid deaths. We do NOT get paid more for a Covid dx. We do NOT put cause of death as covid just because patients test positive, though if patients test positive they are far more likely to die than those who do not. If anything covid deaths are under reported since the general death rate has greatly increased in the covid era. The "excess death " number in 2020 has been calculated in detail. January 2020 to Feb 2021 there were 550-660k excess deaths over the average deaths of the 6 previous years.The only thing that changed was Covid. Go ahead , don't get vaccinated. Put out demonstrably false information and stop others from getting their vaccines. I will still do everything I can to save your life.

Joined: 11/02/2008

MGoPoints: 2146

MGoStrength

December 31st, 2021 at 11:36 AM ^

I don’t know if I should feel jealous of you because somehow no one you care about has any types of congenital health issues that can’t be mitigated by eating healthy and working out or to feel sorry for you because it is not that you and all of your close friends and family did so well genetically, but rather because you have so few who are close to you that you really don’t know people who were born with heart conditions, autoimmune diseases or other things that make you particularly susceptible to covid.

The number one comorbidity is obesity.  Number two is hypertension.  Number three is metabolic disease.  And, number four is cardiovascular disease.  The vast majority of these can be mitigated through diet and exercise.  Congenital health issues are a much smaller minority of those who suffer serious illness from Covid.  Yes, it's unfortunate that some suffer from congenital diseases, but there are many more than chose poor lifestyle habits that suffer from Covid.  It is a philosophical and ethical dilemma if one who is otherwise healthy and at low risk should be forced to undergo a treatment that is of little value to them in order to help someone else who is in a minority position of being at risk due to a congenital issue.  

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/covid19_5.html

I really wish you would reflect on people like me who are most likely your neighbors, coworkers or people you run into regularly in everyday living and think about whether an occasional vaccine shot is really that big a sacrifice.   Or maybe at least realize that every one of your covid posts is a big FU to any fellow mgobloggers who may have covid comorbitities or family or friends with them.

I can see you are fearful and that drives a lot of your viewpoint.  I feel for you.  I would encourage you to research Zeb Jamrozik.  He is an infectious disease bioethicist (PhD).  I never realized there was such a thing as the ethics of infectious disease, but there is.  Your dilemma is precisely what he studies.  If you're interested here are a few links to interviews of him from Vinay Prasad (MD MPH Hematologist/Oncologist, Epidemology & Biostatistics professor).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFRjz6w3DxM&t=2982s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MmlHVgwscM&t=29s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsxs3iYO05s&t=4163s

 

Joined: 07/29/2010

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Don

December 27th, 2021 at 9:28 AM ^

"What I do for my health is work out six days a week, eat well and stay lean."

Are you saying you're in better shape than a world champion kickboxer?

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1473065699551678468?s=20

Are you saying you're in better shape than a professional fitness trainer?

https://www.9news.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/colorado-fitness-coach-covid-19-vaccine/73-174c9d51-97ed-4693-b208-c4a2100d0666

Are you really in better than than this guy? He was very lean before getting COVID:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6963878/coronavirus-nurse-muscle-loss/

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 148387

The Oracle 2

December 27th, 2021 at 5:17 PM ^

Vaers has received thousands of reports of deaths after vaccination. While certainly not all of these were deaths that actually resulted from vaccine reactions, just as not all listed Covid deaths were actually caused by Covid, the actual number is without doubt far, far higher than the 9 you claim.

Joined: 02/25/2018

MGoPoints: 19191

blue in dc

December 27th, 2021 at 11:50 PM ^

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

As explained in the above link, the CDC investigates every US death reported in VAERS.   This investigation is where the 9 deaths attributable to vaccines comes from.  They all are attributed to J and J, so you should probably avoid that.   It should not be a surprise that a small number of people die some time after being vaccinated.  When you give 450 million shots, including many to very old people, it stands to reason that so e would die shortly thereafter because some number were always going to die shortly thereafter for reasons having nothing to do with the vaccine.  This is why the CDC investigates, to understand if the desth was related to the vaccine or due to something else entirely.

it is not without a doubt certain that the number of deaths is much greater than 9, but what is certain is that orders of magnitude more people have died from Covid because of fear of the vaccine than have died from taking the vaccine.  

It is appalling to me that there are people like you who accuse others of being afraid of covid when you perpetuate completely baseless fear of the vaccine that both kills people and perpetuates many of negative consequences of covid that you blame on the government.

As to your ridiculous assertion that Covid deaths are exaggerated, excess mortality numbers say that once again you are wrong.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

There have been about 760,000 reported covid deaths in the US.   In the same time period, there have been slightly more than 1,000,000 excess deaths.

The world would be a better place if you spent more time in the gym and making your healthy meals and spent less time spreading your unfounded, unsupported, crazy paranoid theories.

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

MGoStrength

December 31st, 2021 at 11:13 AM ^

What I do for my health is work out six days a week, eat well and stay lean. Given that 75% or so of those who end up hospitalized for Covid are obese, a lifestyle change would probably help them as much or more than the vaccines.

People are scared.  It's as simple as that.  People are scared because of poor messaging by our leaders.  Continual messaging emphasizing the dangers of the virus and need for vaccination while minimizing risk of the vaccine side effects, refusing to recognize natural immunity and that young healthy people are at minimal risk, and generally refusing to say "we don't know" when they don't has lead to a lot of fear.  It was a mistake to take kids out of school.  It was a mistake to tell people to wear cloth masks.  It was a mistake to ask people to mask outdoors.  But, the biggest mistake is the way messages have been delivered in a divisive way that has created tribalism, bickering, threats, and censorship.  And, it's a mistake to attempt to coerce people to get a vaccine they are not comfortable with.  None of these are/were effective public health strategies.

Philosophically this argument is not about if vaccines are effective or safe.  It's not about natural immunity or masking.  All those are talking points to attempt to prove one side or disprove the other.  Ultimately this is a philosophical and ethical decision.  Do you feel it's our job as a collective society to all get vaccinated in order to reduce an assumed risk to higher risk populations, and subsequently do you think things like vaccine mandates are likely to improve vaccination rates?  It's as simple as that.  

My personal opinion is more in line with yours, but you'll never convince the liberal masses here.  I don't like one size fits all rules.  Medicine is an applied science that attempts to make conclusions based on continually evolving research.  It's not black and white.  Context changes the recommendation and sometimes the risks vs rewards are difficult to balance.  Most people should be vaccinated, but not all and this policy will alienate those that vaccination would be contraindicated for.  I'd much prefer everyone get tested or everyone prove immunity.  I believe medicine requires informed consent, should utilize the minimum intervention necessary, & attempt to minimize risk to the person receiving the treatment.  I don't think it makes logical or ethical sense to coerce low risk young healthy people to get vaccinated to help at risk elderly people.  Our society generally doesn't ask young people to take on added risk to help the elderly.  Generally it's the other way around to give the young a chance to have the life the elderly have already enjoyed.  I also think the majority of those currently not vaccinated are from marginalized groups.  I don't think coercion or limiting civil liberties is an effective way to improve their vaccination rates.  This is likely to only marginalize them further and create further public distrust from them.  Lastly and maybe most importantly, I think prevention is better than intervention.  Prevention is lifestyle habits...daily exercise, energy balance (diet), stress management, adequate sleep, etc.  If you refuse to take the steps to maintain your own health and are expecting others to get vaccinated to help you that is hypocritical. 

If you want it, take it.  If you don't, don't.  Live a healthy lifestyle.  Exercise regularly.  Practice energy balance.  Realize the only person who is responsible for your health is yourself.  The same goes for everyone else.  Take care of yourself and allow others to go through their own decision making processes.  The reality is circumstances out of your control likely have a big impact on if you decide to take the vaccine anyways, most of which are already marginalized groups clinging to some sense of control when they feel powerless in a world they probably lacked the opportunities you and I have enjoyed.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

rob f

January 3rd, 2022 at 10:34 PM ^

TL;DR translation: I am a selfish person; I've never learned about being a responsible American citizen and about civic duty to my fellow citizens, and I am too self-centered to be able to develop any sense of empathy (a trait more commonly found within people who function at a higher level).

Joined: 11/11/2010

MGoPoints: 195035

Princetonwolverine

December 25th, 2021 at 6:45 PM ^

The CDC has literally said, the vaccine does NOT prevent you from getting it nor does it prevent you from spreading it any more or LESS than the UNvaxxed. They go on to say the “viral loads” are the same in the Vaxxed and UNvaxxed. The science does show the Vaxxed are less likely to get seriously ill. That’s it and still makes it worth getting.

Joined: 10/10/2010

MGoPoints: 14174

blue in dc

December 25th, 2021 at 9:07 PM ^

I would be really interested in a cite where the CDC said that.   This is from the CDC in September (obviously Omnicron was not the focus of this statement.

  • The risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Early data suggest infections in fully vaccinated persons are more commonly observed with the Delta variant than with other SARS-CoV-2 variants. However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes. Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed.

That pretty clearly states that at least for Delta, vaccines do reduce your chances of getting covid.   If you don’t get it, you can’t spread it.   

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

 

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

TomJ

December 25th, 2021 at 4:44 PM ^

Oh for fuck's sake. How ignorant do you have to be to write, "with a shot that doesn't prevent getting it or passing it on"? If you don't know by now that the vaccine both reduces the chances that you get the vaccine and (therefore) reduces your chances of giving it someone else, I don't know what to tell you. Holy shit.

Joined: 03/21/2012

MGoPoints: 1437