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WTKA Roundtable 1/18/2024: Jim is Gonna Jim Comment Count

Seth January 18th, 2024 at 10:34 AM

Things Discussed:

  • Seth comes on early to talk Lions.
  • Jim Harbaugh: If the NFL is willing to give him everything he'll go. If they won't he's got leverage to get what he wants from Michigan.
  • Minter: Gonna be hard to keep him. Has the chance to follow MacDonald's career path. Worth keeping? Absolutely. Please offer him whatever you can to stay because he is incredible. But what can we offer other than money that NFL can match when he's already shown he's at that level?
  • Life after Harbaugh? Michigan was the 2nd team to win a National Championship with a majority Black coaching staff (2022 Georgia) and the only one with a Black coordinator or co-coordinator. These guys are as/more responsible than Harbaugh for creating the culture at Michigan.
  • Moore (to HC), Clink, Hart (to RGC), Newsome (to OL), Elston (title bump?) are all guys with a greater connection to Michigan than they do to Harbaugh. If Jay was smart he'd stick around too (Sam thinks he follows his dad).
  • Need to think about the next 10 years of college football. Where teams are going to offer your backups $hundreds of thousands to transfer and your recruits more to sign. Someone here needs to leverage the school to make changes, and push to change the mechanism for player compensation from daddy moneybags to a share of TV revenue and contracts. How does Michigan compete in a world where you have to recruit your team each offseason?
  • If Jim stays is he here for good? No. He's a unicorn; unless he's not having success at Michigan the NFL is going to be interested, because there aren't a lot of Bill Walshs or Pete Carrolls who can have success at both levels.

[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.

Segment 2 is here. You can watch the video here:

The Usual Links:

There's a lot of people out there who have to start thinking about next season; I'm not one of those people.

Comments

MMBbones

January 18th, 2024 at 3:42 PM ^

I think we would all prefer a JH who is just like the one we have now but doesn't interview with the NFL every year. Well, that JH doesn't exist.

I don't thank any other hire we could have brought in instead of Harbaugh would have brought is to the top. 

I am thrilled with what we got with this Jim Harbaugh. Find me a better one and I'm all in!

And... if the worst happens and he leaves, his successor isn't walking into the disaster RR and JH inherited. No team with next year's D will be sub-.500. And the offense won't be too shabby either. Another NC? Not likely. But it's never likely. I'm very pleased with the Harbaugh we hired.

Joined: 08/28/2008

MGoPoints: 9990

jmblue

January 18th, 2024 at 12:23 PM ^

But it does hurt Michigan and it's ok to acknowledge that.

Is there any actual evidence of this?  Have we lost a recruitment or had a player transfer out because of any of his NFL flirtations?

If anything, it seems like the players respect him more for being honest about these things.

I agree that it's not terribly pleasant as a fan to deal with this, but after the past year he had, with two (!) suspensions, I honestly can't fault him if he did leave, though I certainly hope he stays.

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 102941

Watching From Afar

January 18th, 2024 at 12:34 PM ^

See my other comment, it's not necessarily about hurting the team in 2022 so much as it's putting the program at a disadvantage going forward.

Alabama just lost like 1/2 of its roster because Saban retired. I don't think the "come to Michigan where you will lose your HC immediately again" is a good pitch to those guys.

Gatlin Bair is still out there as one of the few remaining uncommitted recruits. Wouldn't be surprised if he goes to Oregon where Lanning has said emphatically he's not going anywhere over a program that doesn't know who their HC will be next year (or other coaches who might depart). Also their passing game is far more attractive.

Generally speaking 2025 and 2026 recruits are also impacted by this. Will a kid ever come out and say "I didn't choose Michigan because Harbaugh interviewed with the Chargers"? No, but that doesn't mean the in flux nature that is Michigan's offseasons every year doesn't have an impact.

I wouldn't fault him in the slightest if he were to leave. But I can grow tired of him not being able to just make a decision and go with it. Shit or get off the pot if you will.

Joined: 10/10/2016

MGoPoints: 16035

schreibee

January 18th, 2024 at 2:32 PM ^

There was a lot there Afar, but interesting questions. 

With Gatlin Bair, while having a stable coaching situation would seem to be a strong selling point, I think you summed up the primary reason were he to choose Oregon: they throw the ball!

Anyone who argues that Harbaugh's NFL flirtations have no effect on player acquisition/retention because we just won the NC aren't necessarily wrong, just shortsighted. It undoubtedly has to have some impact, even if it hasn't been felt yet. But I'm firmly of the belief NIL has a much larger one!

The biggest differences between this year's round of NFL interviews & the past couple are firstly, he has now achieved all his objectives at Michigan.

And secondly, it appears he's insisting on protections against the corrupt ncaa & jealous B10 coaches that UM isn't readily agreeing to. So you gotta say, while it is an annual thing, this year is very different! 

Joined: 11/02/2009

MGoPoints: 21184

KC Wolve

January 18th, 2024 at 12:04 PM ^

This stuff always annoys me. Graham is obviously a team guy and love Michigan. He isn't going anywhere. Why don't guys like him call this out? What does he have to lose by saying he has been contacted by several people affiliated with schools offering him money to leave? I'm not calling out him specifically, but at some point someone needs hammered for tampering or its only going to get worse. 

Joined: 10/09/2010

MGoPoints: 12679

alum96

January 18th, 2024 at 2:07 PM ^

If I was Ryan Day I would have let some of these underperformers like JTT go and use those funds to be buying these 3 guys from Michigan as it kills 2 birds with 1 stone. 

But with the entire OL moving on and the star QB gone along with Corum I guess we focus our limited funds on those 3 guys.

This system is crazy without a "salary cap".

Joined: 04/28/2012

MGoPoints: 82561

samsoccer7

January 18th, 2024 at 11:16 AM ^

Of course Harbaugh can go do whatever he wants.  But I'm also not gonna sit here and pretend things will just continue on this trajectory.  There is some secret sauce with how we recruit and develop players and I'm sure Harbaugh has something big to do with it.  I hope I'm wrong.  If he goes I just can't imagine us humming like we have been the last 3 years, but again, I hope I'm wrong and the staff has been the secret sauce, not Jim.

Joined: 07/08/2008

MGoPoints: 11890

bighouseinmate

January 18th, 2024 at 11:23 AM ^

I think I read somewhere that LSU is paying their new DC $4.5 million a year. That is nuts to me, but may indicate the new going pay for top college coordinators. If that is the case then Minter is worth that, even if Michigan won’t necessarily pay that much. Minter is a hard one to figure out, though, as far as college or NFL aspirations. He’s spent time in both and seems suited for the college game except I’ve read in places that he isn’t too big on the recruiting thing that college coaches have to do. That could just be hearsay though. 
 

Assuming Harbaugh leaves for the NFL, I’d love to see Michigan do whatever they can to keep Minter, while also setting themselves up for the future knowing at some point Minter is either going to the NFL or to a HC position in college. 

Joined: 12/19/2008

MGoPoints: 5001

RockinLoud

January 18th, 2024 at 11:33 AM ^

I think I read somewhere that LSU is paying their new DC $4.5 million a year

That's just nuts. I believe that's more than Hoke's salary when he became head coach, which was considered to be over-paying by many at the time (and definitely over-paying in hindsight).

EDIT: It appears Conrad and I had the same thought!

Joined: 10/12/2008

MGoPoints: 24635

readyourguard

January 18th, 2024 at 11:27 AM ^

Give Jim the contract.

Take out any silly clauses.

Even if the NCAA wants to suspend all 2024 season, sign the man.  He's earned it. 

Whoever is digging their heels on these clauses needs to be straightened out.  And I'll be $500 it's not Warde.  He knows who butters his bread.  He has one job: keep the successful head coach happy.  Warde isn't stupid.

Joined: 08/21/2008

MGoPoints: 40986

samsoccer7

January 18th, 2024 at 11:29 AM ^

He's earned something, yes.  But the University will not give him a $125 million contract and sit by idly if he gets a 2 or 3 year show cause and wait for that to run its course.  I get it.  Surely there's some middle ground.  Maybe Harbaugh doesn't want the middle ground b/c it gives him another reason to leave and say he didn't get the "bear hug".  Whatever at this point.

Joined: 07/08/2008

MGoPoints: 11890

dragonchild

January 18th, 2024 at 11:37 AM ^

Warde isn't stupid.

He kind of is though?  He's a seat-warmer and smart enough to know that, but every time you need someone who can think outside CYA, he's stuck in CYA.

He's not terrible like Dave Brandon turning everything he touches to shit, it's not nothing to make an adminstrative job boring again.  If nothing else, Brandon taught us that boring isn't bad.  But Harbaugh is neurodiverse and this is apparently more than Warde can handle and that (and the Warde cult here) really grinds my gears.  It's 2023; we're not fucking space aliens FFS.  We just don't have an appetite for political bullshit when that's what Warde is all about.

Joined: 10/13/2011

MGoPoints: 61318

schreibee

January 18th, 2024 at 3:08 PM ^

I've seen the term neurodiverse dropped in these debates several times over the past several weeks or months, but I think I just came to the conclusion it's maybe always been by you dragonchild? That hit me when you said "we"...

We deal with some of that in our family, so I relate to your frustrations!

I've never felt like there's a "Warde Cult" per se here. Those who support Warde, or tend to more blame Jim's wandering eye than Warde's management style at least, just seem like a lot of members of the middle-management class.

So they're more like the cult of everyone do your job & don't create problems! Not a Jim Harbaugh friendly group maybe?!

Joined: 11/02/2009

MGoPoints: 21184

readyourguard

January 19th, 2024 at 9:13 AM ^

The Warde cult are the faction of haters who have no clue what his relationship is with Jim, but just want him fired.  For being the 2nd worse AD at Michigan, he's been able to keep Jim for 9 years (longer than any other place the man's worked in his life), and has a national championship under his belt.

Sorry to tell everyone, but the AD's job at Michigan entails one thing: keep a successful football program.  If that means your basketball, softball, and baseball coach decide to depart, so be it.  Football is it.

Joined: 08/21/2008

MGoPoints: 40986

dragonchild

January 18th, 2024 at 11:50 AM ^

I was initially confused as well.  I don't think they mean they are more "Michigan Men" than Harbaugh is, because that's a pretty high bar.  I think it's, they are more connected to the Michigan program than they are to their boss.  So if Harbaugh leaves, they're more likely to stay than follow him or find jobs elsewhere.

Joined: 10/13/2011

MGoPoints: 61318

Logan88

January 18th, 2024 at 12:04 PM ^

This confused me as well but I think it makes sense if you add in a "to" after "than": thus greater connection to Michigan than TO Harbaugh.

Meaning they are more connected to Michigan than they are connected to Harbaugh not that their connection to Michigan is greater than Harbaugh's connection to Michigan (which is kind of how it reads now).

Joined: 01/05/2009

MGoPoints: 8078

1VaBlue1

January 18th, 2024 at 11:51 AM ^

Please explain how Moore, Clink, Hart, Newsome, and Elston have a greater connection to Michigan than Jim MF'in Harbaugh.

I haven't listened yet, so maybe its explained in the pod.  But here, now - without listening, I don't get it.  Harbaugh literally grew up in Ann Arbor while his dad was coaching here.  He played here - set records that still stand today and is considered one of the best QB's to have every played at Michigan.  His college degree says "University of Michigan".  

Hart and Newsome played here, the ooze Michigan.  Neither grew up here or had parents coaching here - not that I'd ever complain or diminish their connection anyway!  I just don't get how these guys "are all guys with a greater connection to Michigan than Harbaugh".

Maybe I just need to listen, first...

Joined: 01/31/2016

MGoPoints: 127619

taistreetsmyhero

January 18th, 2024 at 12:14 PM ^

I took that to mean they think a group of predominantly black players can connect better with a group of predominantly black coaches, which is backed up by studies in basically every facet of life that representation matters. And this is another reason to believe keeping those coaches in place will help prevent attrition should Harbaugh leave. 

Joined: 08/08/2012

MGoPoints: 39396

ca_prophet

January 18th, 2024 at 1:32 PM ^

It is disingenuous to argue that it is only about competence.  Harbaugh is undeniably competent and also a pain in the ass to work with; not every talented player will work well with him.

The goal for both the players and coaches is to hit their maximum potential.  Technical expertise is part of that - maybe the biggest part, although we do live in an age where information is far more available than it ever was before - but it's undeniable that it's not everything.

Why is it ridiculous to believe that talented players can get the best results from coaches who they work well with, and that race is a part of that?  and that sometimes, for some players, it can trump technical expertise?

 

Joined: 09/07/2010

MGoPoints: 7132

michgoblue

January 18th, 2024 at 2:06 PM ^

While I am almost always in the camp of "hire the most competent person regardless of race, color, gender, sexual orientation, background, etc." I think that there is a middle ground here and we must acknowledge that in a sport where a large number of the athletes are black, having a staff that contains a large number of younger, black coaches may help in terms of both recruiting and the ability of the players to connect with their coaches.  I am not saying that white coaches, asian coaches, hispanic coaches or any other types of coaches are unable to recruit well and connect with black players, but it is idealistic to think that having a staff that contains at least a good number of younger black coaches is not at least in part a benefit here. 

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: 32198

crg

January 18th, 2024 at 1:44 PM ^

Well... would Deion get the players he does if he was white (all else being as comparable as possible)?

Obviously he wouldn't be "Deion" without his demographic background (which goes beyond simply race), but... some people fixate on certain aspects (positively and negatively).

I have seen personally many situations where the ethnicity of the person in charge of a work environment tends to draw people of the same ethnicity (usually in the context of people with multinational backgrounds, not race alone).

Joined: 04/30/2015

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