entertainment factor: high [watke]

World Cup Postmortem Part 1: A Look Back Comment Count

Brian December 8th, 2022 at 12:41 PM

Hey folks, for obvious reasons I was unable to get out any USMNT content before the World Cup. Complaints can be sent to Sepp Blatter, who will fart on them and then light some money on fire. I did want to get my takes off before the 2026 cycle starts, so.

The US came and went in the World Cup, finishing second in their group after a 1-1 tie against Wales, a 0-0 tie against England, and 1-0 win over Iran. The Netherlands beat the US 3-1, and everyone's just kind of sitting around wondering whether they should be satisfied. Ha, no lol: 70% of people are sitting around wondering that and 30% of people are screaming about Gregg Berhalter bringing Cristian Roldan.

Let's evaluate the performance. First we should ask what a reasonable expectation is.

HOW MUCH TALENT, REALLY?

Sure why not

This is widely regarded as the most talented US team ever. I don't think that's entirely clear, and if it is indeed things aren't that much different. Take the 2010 team, which got out of the group on the famous goal against Algeria and the went out to Ghana in the round of 16. (In terms of performance this is the closest recent analogue; 2006 got farther and while 2014 got as far they played miserably and lucked out.) Let's look at the starting lineups by putting them in approximate bins. These players are in roughly equivalent situations:

Important players at also-rans in top five leagues.

  • 2010: Steve Cherundolo (Hannover 96), Jay Demerit (Watford), Clint Dempsey (Fulham), Michael Bradley (Borussia Mochengladbach).
  • 2022: Antonee Robinson (Fulham), Tim Ream (Fulham), Tyler Adams (Leeds), Yunus Musah (Valencia).

At Milan but not playing.

  • 2010: Oguchi Onyewu.
  • 2022: Sergino Dest. (Dest has ~4 games worth of minutes this season.)

Important players in the French League.

  • 2010: Carlos Bocanegra (Rennes).
  • 2022: Tim Weah (Lille).

EPL goalies.

  • 2010: Tim Howard (Everton).
  • 2022: Matt Turner (Arsenal, but the backup).

Very good career MLS players:

  • 2010: Ricardo Clark (Houston Dynamo legend temporarily failing to break through at Frankfurt).
  • 2022: Walker Zimmerman (Nashville SC).

Those guys are all relatively close in talent level. That leaves just three starters each worth discussing.

One is the "lol what" striker. In 2010 the US was picking between Robbie Findley and Edson Buddle after Charlie Davies's car crash. This year it was Jesus Ferraria, Haji Wright, or Josh Sargent. I think we can call this a wash.

One is Landon Donovan and Landon Donovan 2.0. Donovan was at LA Galaxy because he just wanted to stay at home but is the best player in USMNT history. Christian Pulisic is on track to match him. This is also a wash.

So then you've got Weston McKennie at Juventus, where he's not quite a locked-in starter but is clearly an important player, versus Jozy Altidore in the midst of his horrible no-good season at Hull. Clear advantage 2022.

[After THE JUMP: evaluating performance in four games]

Depth is by definition depth but I don't think there's much difference there either since 2010's bench had field players at Bolton, West Ham, and two at Rangers including Demarcus Beasley. (I know Bob Bradley had installed a very effective system with Davies in the roster but looking back at this it is completely insane that Bradley decided to try out the who-dats at striker instead of just moving Donovan up and making Beasley a starter.) 2022 responds with Leeds, a glass cannon at Dortmund, a 19-year-old at Mochengladbach, and then a serious dropoff. 2022 would have murdered someone for the opportunity to bring a pre-injury Stu Holden off the bench.

The 2022 team has the flashy transfer values but that's because in 2010 these guys were almost all established professionals close to their ceilings. The only guys who had significant runway left were Altidore, then 20, and Bradley, then 22.

The upshot: the 2022 team was not a paradigm shift in terms of talent in the player pool. The youth revolution only got the US back to where it was before Klinsmann ran everything into the ground. It's the next cycle that promises to move the US from a country that has almost exactly eleven guys who can hang at a world-class level to one with a talent base that can expect more than four games.

Meanwhile, the performances were better. The 2010 team needed an all-time gaffe to tie England and drew Slovenia, then went out to a team considerably worse than this Netherlands team. Meanwhile we're about to get into 2014...

HOW DID THEY PLAY?

It's been a while so I'm not sure if these memories persist, but games against world powers used to be agonizing exercises in just trying to get the ball. I find the enduring popularity of Jurgen Klinsmann utterly mystifying—just look at the replies to this Taylor Twellman tweet—since Klinsmann tanked one World Cup cycle and the one time he got to the World Cup, the results were superficially the same as Berhalter's but felt massively different. The USA got out of the group in 2014 but spent almost all of the Ghana game on the back foot and were essentially Costa Rica in a group finale against Germany:

The US had their worst game ever in a World Cup in terms of possession. Germany controlled 67.5 percent of the possession, the most they have had in the tournament so far. It was also the most the US have ever given up in a World Cup game. The previous record was the 2002 quarterfinal when Mexico had 66.3 percent possession against the US. … For much of the game, the USA were unable to get out of their own half. Germany had 525 touches in the opponents' half, while the USA had 189.

They only made the knockouts because Portugal beat a Ghana team that skipped training sessions after their federation tried to cheat them out of their pay. The knockout round game against Belgium saw Howard set a World Cup record for saves. The path forward from that was hard to see, and it wasn't much later when the US was played to a standstill by Haiti in a Gold Cup match, then deservedly lost to Jamaica in the semifinals.

Now we get into the realm of Fancy Stats. Many dismiss these when they do not line up with their priors, but in a low-event sport like soccer I think they're critical if we're trying to sanity check any of our beliefs. And hoo boy, soccer fans have some beliefs. You will not find a single Michigan football fan with a take like "they can't run the ball" or "Blake Corum is bad," but after a major soccer game you can hop on r/ussoccer or (back in the day) the bigsoccer.com message boards and find literally every take under the sun. There will be people swearing up and down that player X was man of the match while at the same time others rant about how he should be dropped forever. Fancy Stats are helpful when we try to argue against people who say things that are patently insane. 

Anyone saying that this was not a positive US World Cup is patently insane. On the surface, 2-1 against Belgium and 3-1 against the Netherlands are kind of the same result. But watching those games felt entirely different. One felt like watching one guy defend the Alamo from a ravenous horde of waffle-throwing maniacs. The other felt like trying to open up the world's biggest Christmas present only to be shivved in the back by a Bass Pro Shop.

I rather prefer the second, and vastly prefer how the US set up and performed in this World Cup than their most recent outing. The Athletic's John Muller has the definitive 1,000 foot statistical overview of this. I highly recommend getting an Athletic subscription; for those that don't, the upshots are that while US possession was 53%, middle of the pack and on par with 2010, the field was tilted in the opposite way that it was in 2014:

field_tilt

That is a stat that passes the sniff test, with Spain, Argentina, Germany, Brazil, Portugal, England, and France leading the way, and then the little ol' USA next. The Netherlands is the only team generally considered world elite to not slot in at the top. The US ranked even higher in the percentage of possessions that reached the final third, another stat dominated by world elite teams (and South Korea?) and had one of the best counter-pressing success rates in the entire tournament.

And then?

Well, then they crossed the shit out of the ball.

cross_entry_share

In and of itself this is a stat with much less grouping of elite teams—you can see France and Portugal down at the bottom and Brazil sort of idling around the middle. It does tilt towards crossing being bad, and that is the developing consensus at the highest levels of club soccer. It is especially bad when one of your games is Jesus Ferraria versus 6'5" Virgil Van Dyke.

All this paints a picture of a team that got almost everything right, especially relative to their talent level, but did not have a coherent plan for breaking down a bunkered defense. YMMV on why this might be. I do think Berhalter bears some blame here. Big, burly target striker Jordan Pefok should have been on this roster, especially when it goes 26 deep. It seems like Plan B when you can't break the bunker is to just meathead up; Berhalter was too committed to Plan A to bring Plan B. In retrospect, you've committed to Tim Weah as a right wing and you've got Jedi Robinson at left back; those guys are always going to be byline guys. You're going to be crossing.

But how much was that going to matter? I don't think it was likely to turn the dial too much. Pefok is one-dimensional and is playing for a mid-level side, where he was on a serious goal drought. Not a game changer.

More broadly, I don't think the pool really provided an answer. You have to start MMA in the midfield, but none of those guys is going to do much to unlock a defense. Adams is a superior defensive midfielder but lacks any regista traits. Musah is currently prime Darlington Nagbe…

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…and while McKennie excels at late runs into the box and got the hockey assist on the Pulisic goal against Iran he's more of a play finisher than a play starter. You've got Pulisic, yeah, and then you've got Dest, but Weah is more of a vertical counterattack guy and striker's a big nothing. Two guys isn't enough.

I hear the ghostly cries: "what about Gioooooooooo?" The question is: who are you taking off for Reyna? The team is built around MMA. You're not taking off Pulisic, and Weah was maybe the team's most effective attacker. The answer in the second half against The Netherlands turned out to be playing without a striker, which didn't really work any more than having an ineffectual striker. I would much rather have played Sargent, who was decently effective connecting the rest of the team on his limited opportunities; he was not available.

Asking someone to do something they don't do at the club level is the kind of thing that sounds good in theory and usually ends in disaster. To me this is like one of those fourth down decisions that is massively consequential but if you punch it into a go-or-not calculator it turns out to be a coinflip. Berhalter didn't really have any good answers. This was maybe 20% his fault.

In summary:

Even if the US is not there yet, they played differently than they ever had at a World Cup. They did not look like they were just trying to hang on. They got booted by a more incisive foe in the round of 16 while playing them largely even. That is a paradigm shift, unlike the talent on the roster.

HOW THEY FAILED

Another way to look at the performances is to look at how things went badly, when they went badly. There were three main ways things went horse-shaped that I don't think are primarily coaching issues, and then some things that do trace back to coaching.

Second-half meltdowns against Wales and Iran. The US lost its pressing impetus in the second halves of both these games and started giving up chances. Against Wales this eventually led to the PK and an equalizer. Against Iran it resulted in 20 minutes of clenched rectums nationwide but nothing else.

This was in part tactical. Berhalter wanted to kill Wales on the counter in the second half and the US spurned opportunities in ways that are more PASS THE BALL TO THE OPEN GUY than anything coaching related…

66th-minute sequence was particularly notable. Wales pressed. The U.S. skipped a line, and won a second ball, just as any coach would have scripted it. Brenden Aaronson found Pulisic in a gaping pocket of space at midfield, and with Tim Weah streaking in behind the Welsh defense from the right.

image

But Pulisic didn’t see him.

Or he couldn’t get his feet right. Either way, he picked the wrong pass, and turned a 3-v-3 into a non-dangerous situation.

They're in the positions. You've got Weah streaking, and it doesn't happen. Player more than coach.

Against Iran they had a second goal ruled out by the barest of offsides margins and then ran out of gas in the second half. A lack of depth reared its head, especially with McKennie not quite in game shape after an extended pre-tournament layoff. Dest was not 90 minutes fit because he hadn't been playing, and the US had nobody near the level of either guy. Pressing is a team-wide activity; pressing while you've got a couple guys who aren't totally on point is also known as suicide.

So they had to drop back, and gave up their biggest strength, and soak pressure. Better transition play against Wales makes this a brilliant gambit instead of black mark. See: "Louis Van Gaal masterclass" discourse.

The best team goal in the history of the Netherlands. I mean, ok.

The Netherlands’ opening goal in their 3-1 win over the U.S. was beautiful and the most passes leading to a World Cup goal for them since data records began in 1966.

When one goal in the round of 16 gets a whole ass article on the Athletic, you tip your hat. As I was watching this my thought process went something like "Wow. Wow. Ok. Wow. This seems bad. This is bad. THIS IS VERY BAD."

Outside backs failing to mark guys for reasons that are beyond tactics. The second and third Netherlands goals were Sergino Dest and Antonee Robinson massively busting, in the parlance of football. Both guys had plenty of opportunity to make basic soccer actions that would have prevented goals—or at least made them vastly more difficult. That sucks, but I don't think either error can be laid at the feet of coaching. There's a reason Dest got chased from Barca and isn't playing much at Milan, and that's it. We have seen similar things from him over the course of his career. He's by far the US's best option there but has a fatal flaw.

Robinson… I don't know. Just the worst time to have the worst play of your career. Again, not a thing that you can reasonably fix by picking someone else or screaming "HEY MARK THE GUY WHO IS IN THE SPOT YOU SHOULD BE". This isn't U8s.

Berhalter issues. Inserting Shaq Moore, and then inserting him again, was baffling. Joe Scally may be 19 but has been a Bundesliga starter for almost a year, and there were opportunities to integrate him. The aforementioned lack of a target striker.  Continuing to use Pulisic as a set piece taker despite a whole year of evidence he doesn't do much. A complete lack of set-piece danger in general.

WELL?

Berhalter gets a B+ for this cycle around these parts. He picked up the shattered pieces of the corpse left by Klinsmann, integrated a new generation of players, recruited three important dual nationals (Dest, Robinson, Musah), won the Nations League, won the Gold Cup, took the CONCACAF mantle back from Mexico, and did all this with a lineup that almost never actually got to deploy MMA and Pulisic at the same time. He got the US to Pot 2 in the World Cup draw, managed a tough group—Iran was the top point-getter in Asian qualifying and 3 other Asian teams got through; Wales got through a Euro group with Switzerland, Turkey, and Italy last year—and played The Netherlands about as evenly as the US did in their best-ever World Cup performance, the 2006 quarter against Germany.

In the end they deserved what they got.

I don't think someone else would have done meaningfully better. It's notable that foreign observers were generally very enthusiastic about the USA's performance, describing it as almost as organized as a club team, while the MLS-sux crowd on twitter just rails about every marginal decision while ignoring the larger picture.

As for what this means for Berhalter's future with the USMNT, I'd be fine with continuity here. I would not be torn up if he was replaced. I do think that the US coach should probably be American since this country's system is so different than everywhere else in the world. If I was in charge I would extend Berhalter through (hopefully) the 2024 Copa America and then re-evaluate then.

Comments

uminks

December 8th, 2022 at 12:50 PM ^

I lost my interest in soccer when the Detroit Express folded. I always looked forward to Trevor Frances joining for the team after the English league was complete. Oh well.

Hab

December 8th, 2022 at 12:59 PM ^

The thing I remember most about the US play was that, in the final third, a significant majority of first touches were absolute shit, making their next play a rushed effort to do what they wanted in the first place (which he was now out of position to execute) or a contested attempt to regain possession.  In all of these situations, it cost the US precious time that allowed defenses to organize or transition.  Weah in particular stood out as guilty of a poor first touch.

mgoaggie

December 8th, 2022 at 5:41 PM ^

Weah's touch was really polarizing for me. I remember a long ball that he cupped and brought in magnificently, leading to a good possession in the attacking third. Then the next time with the exact same switching ball, it skidded under his foot and out of bounds for possession. It's whiplash.

Needs

December 8th, 2022 at 1:03 PM ^

This is clearly the US's best, and deepest midfield, which is why the US can play so differently and stay on the front foot. We've never had a midfield that can boss the game against higher level sides and now we do. You could see that against England where MMA basically rendered one of the worlds 3 best young midfielders (Bellingham is up there with only Pedri and Gavi) almost totally ineffective. You could make a similar argument (well, not depth, but quality) for the two outside backs. CD was a step down from the best US teams, wing attackers is a push.

The general consensus in the smart English media (guardian, athletic's English soccer staff) is that the US showed much more quality than they have in the past, but by the time they got to the 1/16th game, the midfield was "knackered," and had a hard time staying with the Dutch when they decided to go forward. I think he only place you can really criticize Berhalter for his initial lineups was not figuring a way to rotate that midfield 3 so that they stayed a bit fresher. Obviously, he was limited at the 6, because Acosta's a big step down from Adams, but he could have worked Aaronson and Reyna in as starters in one game to save McKennie's and Musah's legs (Musah, in particular was dead on his feet at the end of Iran and both he and Adams had a hard time tracking runners against the Netherlands). Of course, that could have backfired and the US doesn't get out of the group.

None of Berhalter's subs really impacted the game positively, and Shaq Moore was a consistent giant down grade, but a lot of that seems to be the limits of the pool. He also waited too long to put on a sub or change tactics against Wales when they changed tactics at half, but I'm not smart enough to figure out the solution there (take off McKennie and go to three at the back?)

I generally think having the same coach for more than one cycle doesn't work well, but it's also not a particularly attractive job, given that there's not really a guarantee of high level matches until the next World Cup (US soccer should be doing whatever it takes to get an invite to the next Copa America).

stephenrjking

December 8th, 2022 at 1:12 PM ^

I don't think there's any evidence that Reyna was fit enough to play more than 30 minutes. I think we would have seen him if he had been so fit.

And that has knock-on effects: you can't use Aaronson early because you need him to come in later and be fresh, and there are two or three different spots you might need him to play, since Mckennie couldn't make it past 60, either. 

It's a thin roster; you'd hate to drop key points because your best 11 unquestionably hinges on having your three excellent midfielders on the field together and you sat one of them to try to be fresher for a different game. 

Needs

December 8th, 2022 at 1:23 PM ^

Reyna had played several full games for Dortmund in the run up, but he easily could have picked up a knock in training given his history. I lean more toward there not being a clear place for him in Berhalter's system/Berhalter sees him as a wing attacker rather than an 8. Aaronson's fitness is such that he's basically incapable of running himself out, he covers more ground for Leeds that almost anyone in the EPL (though I thought he was fairly poor, for his standard, in the WC).

The real problem, anyway, is no cover for Adams or, given how they were playing him, Musah. One real emphasis in the next couple years has to be figuring out a little more depth at those particular positions (whether the US is playing a single or double pivot)

Rotating the squad's always going to be a calculation of standing in the tournament and expectations. If you think you have to burn the squad to get out of the group, that's what you do (and this was probably the right call). Had the US not dropped points against Wales, they would have been in a better position to do so. I think it did cost them against the Netherlands, though.

m9tt

December 8th, 2022 at 2:19 PM ^

Chemistry (or familiarity) is also a big deal. I know it sounds like a silly thing, but Reyna was MIA most of qualifying and the summer window... and when the windows to execute get really small, it's often the little things like knowing where your teammate will be and what run they like to make and where they want the ball played speed up your play. 

rugbyjosh

December 8th, 2022 at 2:37 PM ^

Just hopping on to say that the first paragraph feels particularly spot on. Brian's line "It's been a while so I'm not sure if these memories persist, but games against world powers used to be agonizing exercises in just trying to get the ball" really resonated with my experience. I've watched the USMNT with a non-zero level of sophistication since like 1998, and for a long time it seemed like a miracle if the US could even string more than two or three passes together without turning it over. Now? They're playing genuinely breathtaking soccer at times. Not often enough, and I don't think the baseline performance is nearly high enough yet, but there's genius and continuity there and it's awesome to see.

stephenrjking

December 8th, 2022 at 1:07 PM ^

Re-evaluate after Copa sounds fine. In the end, the team looked fine, and the biggest challenges are personnel-related. And GB has done a good job getting good talent into place, so it's not like we can fault him for the absence of good defensively oriented fullbacks to use as subs, or the "good rooms available" vacancy sign at the 9.

I guess I would think that there is a need for some more tactical flexibility. What Berhalter wants to do depends quite a bit on having the right guys to execute it. You have depth at winger, but the instant you take a hit somewhere else (or a guy just isn't fit enough to run for 90) there are holes on the field. 

But then, that's US Soccer. It's not France, which has 8 million terrific CBs they can plug in, has guys like Kingsley Coman playing backup winger, and might be the WC frontrunner with what you could argue is 3 of their 4 best players out with injury. 

Of course, the US isn't Germany, either, but Germany doesn't know who to put up front any more than the US does and didn't perform any better in the tournament. 

Turns out that filling that #9 role can be tricky, even for nations that have a lot going for them. Brazil looks good, but their clear first-choice striker is Richarlison, who has never scored more than 15 goals in a club season. Spain just managed to score 0 goals against Morocco, *including penalties*. 

It's a tough business. 

Needs

December 8th, 2022 at 1:28 PM ^

Berhalter's been really good at convincing promising young players with options to commit to the US. (Dest, Musah, Weah, Slonina) Hopefully he can continue that trend with Folarin Balugon, which could really help address the number 9 issues (young Arsenal striker on loan at Reims who's doing very well in Ligue 1. Can play for the US, England, or Nigeria).

swn

December 8th, 2022 at 1:12 PM ^

Love your soccer content. I'm a fairly casual fan (don't watch much club play), but my thoughts on the four games were the obvious and desperate need for a striker, the corners by Pulisic were consistently bad (especially since they apparently had a coach dedicated to set pieces), and the second Dutch goal completely changed how that second half was going to go.

I guess the good news is even if this team isn't way more talented than past ones, they are very young. Are there any promising strikers in U17 etc? 

stephenrjking

December 8th, 2022 at 1:17 PM ^

Probably not HS. The best players are already going to be in academies or at minimum on serious travel teams by then. 

The good news is that the USMNT doesn't need to find him. A professional club with a serious financial interest in producing talent and a network of scouts and contacts has to do it. US just calls him up when it is clear he can do the job.

But don't get too hopeful; we've been hoping for that 1 out of 300MM+ for a couple of generations and he hasn't popped up yet. 

MgofanNC

December 8th, 2022 at 2:52 PM ^

He's popped up just not in soccer. We are a Football and Basketball and Baseball and even Hockey nation before soccer. How many goals would LeBron score or Debo Samuel (random example there), etc. We are a nation full of athletes and eager to support and develop them just not enough to go around it seems. 

jg2112

December 8th, 2022 at 3:21 PM ^

Soccer is this nation's 3rd sport, at worst. As far as participation and viewership it's probably the 2nd (basketball might be first for participation, only gridiron gets more eyeballs). For large portions of the population this is THE sport.

I do appreciate the "If Only LeBron Played Soccer" argument. Haven't seen that in a bit. The answer to how many goals LeBron would score is: it depends on whether SoccerBron has been playing soccer since the age of 4. If yes, he probably would have been a good player. If not, he'd have no chance against Stones, VVD, or Varane.

But most importantly - he'd have a build like VVD, not a power forward.

alum96

December 8th, 2022 at 3:35 PM ^

There is literally no player in soccer with a body type like Lebron I can think of.   These guys are running 6-8 miles a game. With 1 break.  NBA players its like 1.2 miles for a point guard.  With loads of breaks.

I just hate this argument.  It's not about what is being watched by 45 year old dudes.  And by the way EPL is on TV every weekend and well watched.  Yes football is king yada yada. 

2M kids play soccer. Bball is 4M.  Baseball 3.5M.  Hockey is 300K.  Football is under 1M.  Yet football is king in the country (fair play) and we have the best ones on the planet yada yada.  We have more than enough kids playing soccer and there are loads of very high end athletes.  In fact for many years the argument was at the top level in the US system kids were reliant on their athleticism over skill development. (Since clubs are about winning and fast kids or over sized strong kids at age 11 can dominate things)  So when they got to adult stage and lost the athletic edge the US looked like dung since the other countries had the skills. 

p.s. some of the best players in the world are all of 5'8-5'9 145-155 lbs.  You have the freaks out there but that is a lot of the size of mids in many countries - very successful players. Mbappe who could be called a "freak" athlete is all of 5'10 160 lbs.  Neymar 5'9 150.  It's about skill.

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

December 8th, 2022 at 4:21 PM ^

It's not about whether kids play soccer.  It's about where they play it and when.  Most kids, when they play a pickup game of any kind, they're not playing soccer.  They'll play football, or basketball, or sometimes baseball, but rarely soccer.  Whereas in most other countries, their kids just go out and kick a soccer ball around, and they just develop the natural foot skills instead of naturally developing the ability to throw a spiral or swing a bat.  They play soccer in some rec league, sure, but how many of them live and breathe it?

Also, I agree that the "what if LeBron was a soccer player" argument is the wrong tack.  The right tack is this: our Lionel Messi probably played basketball as a kid (or baseball or hockey or football) and wasn't very good.  He might've played D-III sports and then gone on to a career as an accountant.  Our best soccer players aren't playing in the NBA or NFL - they're playing a sport other than soccer, not succeeding to any great extent, and we never know who they are.

Needs

December 8th, 2022 at 4:58 PM ^

This probably varies a lot by location, but from what I see with my kids and their friends in NYC, soccer was the overwhelmingly most common after school pickup sport they played into junior high. As they got a little older, basketball became more frequent (it takes a fair amount of strength to get the ball to the hoop and jumping into a NYC pickup game takes some skill), but soccer remained equally prevalent into high school with some random touch football games woven in. There's almost no "sandlot" baseball, even though there are some fields. That's the sport that only seems to happen in "official" settings. 

Similarly, soccer jerseys are worn about as frequently as football and basketball. Almost no baseball at all.

MgofanNC

December 9th, 2022 at 1:16 PM ^

China and India have over a billion people each and they aren't even in the WC. It's not about population or how many kids you have playing X sport. It's about the emphasis the culture places on being good in that sport and how they develop those players. Women's team has greater support and top end athletes playing soccer and sticking with it through the highest levels. But on the men's side a lot of those top athletes go to other sports. We dominate the Olympics in Basketball (when our best pros decide to play) because we better develop top end athletes in that sport. That's the point I'm making here. This isn't meant to be about fucking Lebron literally who, I agree, is not an ideal person for any soccer team. It's meant to be about top end athletes not choosing to play soccer at the highest levels because our culture doesn't value soccer like it does the other sports (the ones the 45 year old dudes watch). 

Hensons Mobile…

December 8th, 2022 at 6:03 PM ^

Hi MGofannc. You’re taking negs from sad soccer fans who can’t wait to tell you that LeBron is not built like a soccer player. But that’s just the red meat they love to attack so they can ignore your larger point:

If soccer was the main sport here—like everywhere else in the world—we would be much better at it.

Not that hard a concept.

steviebrownfor…

December 9th, 2022 at 10:56 AM ^

its a completely useless point grounded in american exceptionalism.  the only reason to bring it up is to say "we could be the best if we wanted to" which isnt even true.

For instance, Croatia has a population of less than 4 million and are currently tied with brasil at half time in the quarter finals.  US youth soccer registers 3 million players annually.  so we have 75% of the population of croatia playing youth soccer right now and still can't compete with countries like Croatia.

read Grant Wahl's piece on this if you really care, but its one of the most tired and stupid hypotheticals & most American soccer fans are sick of seeing it crop up every 4 years.

https://www.si.com/specials/greatest-sports-what-ifs/planet-futbol/2017/lebron-james-soccer-player

Hensons Mobile…

December 9th, 2022 at 11:36 AM ^

I do care and I will read Wahl’s piece.

But apparently this is a harder concept for some than I realized.

It seems inarguable and self-evident that if the only sport the US cared about was soccer that we would be better at it than we are. That doesn’t necessarily mean we would be #1.

The kids registered in youth soccer right now are not as old as Modric so that seems like an irrelevant point. But one day those will be the kids playing…if they don’t play baseball instead.

The sport is not ingrained enough in the country for us to ever really compete at the highest level. I mean, here YOU are playing the population game (i.e. we have as many kids playing soccer as Croatia has people).

It’s not population. It’s culture and you can’t flip a switch on that.

How does Wimbledon get its grass so green? Well, you start with a 100 years of rain.

Hensons Mobile…

December 9th, 2022 at 11:44 AM ^

That Wahl url only had 4 paragraphs that didn’t say much other than reinforce my point:

It's a moot point in the end. In the U.S., soccer will always have to compete against the other big sports for players. As soccer continues gaining popularity in this country, it's reasonable to think the talent pool will grow in lockstep, so that it's less of a middle/upper-class sport. 

 

Maybe it used to have more to the story? Seemed like it was cut off.
 

MgofanNC

December 9th, 2022 at 12:56 PM ^

Glad you saw the larger point at least. This wasn't meant to be me wishing that literally LeBron played soccer (I played my entire life and now coach; I know what soccer players are built like and how the game is played in terms of conditioning etc.). But yeah, we produce a ton of great athletes and develop them in their respective sports. Most of them don't play soccer. 

wolverine1987

December 8th, 2022 at 1:22 PM ^

One of the few things Klinsman got right opinion wise was his constant refrain about how top American players and potential international players should all be in Europe and not MLS. 

M Ascending

December 8th, 2022 at 1:24 PM ^

Thank you for this shoulda-been-labeled-OT article.  We are a football school -- the kind with the weird ball that bounces funny and doesn't roll straight. I recognized exactly two names in the article: Pusilic and Donovan Landon. I would have recognized a third if you had mentioned Paylay.

 

/s

BTB grad

December 8th, 2022 at 1:37 PM ^

On crosses: a lot of those are the result of the many set pieces we had that Pulisic kept wasting over and over again. I don’t know how Berhalter didn’t pull him off that duty. I don’t even know if we got a single shot on goal from our set pieces. 

steviebrownfor…

December 9th, 2022 at 9:49 AM ^

there was a half-chance that Tim Ream had against the Netherlands.  Pulisic sent it to the middle where McKennie played a ball to Ream's feet that almost bounced in. 

But in general Pulisic is horrible at set piece delivery.  He's obviously a great player but someone else needs to be taking set pieces, I agree.  Reyna is great at them, Acosta is pretty good as well.  As far as players on the pitch maybe have Dest take them?  I'm not sure who it should be but it shouldn't be Puli.

BLUEintheface

December 8th, 2022 at 1:37 PM ^

While USMNT spent a lot of time in the box, they never were able to do anything with it. Opportunity after opportunity squandered.  Wasted bad touches and too many passes.  Finally Weah makes that strike against the Netherlands where I yelled finally.  Teams like France and Brazil are not afraid to strike the ball at goal and the US keeps trying to pass and cross their way to a goal. The lack of a stricker amplifies this problem.  

I am not sure what the deal was with corner kicks. Pulisic does not give a good ball, but there must not be anyone else that can do better.  We kept hearing about this special corner kick coach but did not see any benefit of that.

Overall though, things look very promising with a talented and athletic core. USMNT had to come back from a deep hole and Burhalter has achieved that!