Signgate The Seventh: It's All Bullshit
It's All Bullshit. Let us start with this: all of this is bullshit. Bruce Feldman is quoting coaches who think Connor Stalions was worth 21 points a game, Allan Haller is piteously moaning about how MSU players were in danger because Michigan may or may not know what plays they're running, and various Big Ten coaches are up in arms about the Threat To Competitive Integrity.
Bullshit. All of it.
This all came out, Stalions got suspended, everyone is fully aware that they should use wristbands against Michigan, and Vegas reacted by shoving all their Michigan lines towards Michigan. And nobody is using wristbands except the one school in the conference that has mastered Writing and is now able to build a library:
Notice JJ had to go to the wrist band.
— Due# (@JDue51) November 5, 2023
My anonymous source tells me that’s a reaction to *someone* sending Purdue video of our signs prior to the Big Ten Championship game last year.
Allegedly pic.twitter.com/mZZz0r2FDs
Haller's crocodile tears are doubly ridiculous since the only danger anyone was in in the M-MSU game was Braiden McGregor when he got speared in the helmet. And after a couple of drives of performatively having the quarterback get the call from the sideline, they just went back to signals. If it was really that dangerous, Haller should be fired for Endangering His Players. But it's not. It's bullshit.
If any of this was true, teams would not dare to signal in plays at all:
"People don't understand the seriousness of it," said another source. "How it truly impacted the game plan. To truly know if it's a run or a pass, people don't understand how much of an advantage that was for Michigan."
There was anger interspersed throughout the call, as one source described the sentiment as: "Every game they played is tainted."
Nobody in football really believes this gave Michigan the kind of material advantage that taints the season, not when Michigan has blown out every opponent on the schedule. But give James Franklin an opportunity to spout off anonymously in an attempt to placate the Penn State fanbase staring down another beatdown at the hands of Michigan or Ohio State, and he's going to take it.
This conference has an entire division failing the Brian Ferentz test. The other division has two of the worst P5 teams in America, Rutgers, a Maryland team that just lost to Northwestern, a Penn State team that can't move the ball against anyone with a pulse, and M/OSU. Maybe this conference's problems are not solely due to one low-level Michigan staffer with grandiose ambitions.
[After THE JUMP: rumor du jour.]
On to the rumor du jour. That would be that the Big Ten is fixin' to suspend Jim Harbaugh indefinitely tomorrow. This is ludicrous but I believe it. This post on the message board…
According to my source, Harbaugh will be suspended indefinitely on Monday. The university is preparing a lawsuit against the conference and asking for an immediate stay on the suspension. Grounds for the suit are violation of conference rules on investigations and irreparable harm from the timing of the suspension. My source works for the law firm representing UM in this case. The firm is working this weekend to determine whether to file the suit in local, state, or federal court as reaction time is critical.
This is about to get real.
…corresponds with a post Sam Webb made yesterday morning, and similar rumblings from Josh Henschke. There have been similar reports in the wider press. One bright side is that it seems like anything other than a Harbaugh suspension is not being considered:
There was talk, for instance, of any penalty not impacting players directly. A suspension of head coach Jim Harbaugh may be the most likely and “cleanest” penalty if one were handed down, one source said.
For 2023 it appears the fight is over Harbaugh and just Harbaugh.
UPDATE: I've been told the earliest this could happen would be Wednesday.
What then? As mentioned in a previous Signgate piece, Michigan has no intention of showing its belly to anyone on this. Santa Ono's letter to Petitti is polite but reads like an expensive lawyer went over it to lay out the various arguments Michigan will make to a judge in the event the Big Ten does something drastic:
"We, as would any other member of the Big 10, deserve nothing less. Our students, our coaches, our program — all are entitled to a fair, deliberate, thoughtful process. We are aware that other representatives of the Big10 are demanding that you take action now, before any meaningful investigation and full consideration of all the evidence. That is not something our conference rules permit. And we both know it is not what any other member would want if allegations were raised against their people or programs.
"The Big 10 has not informed us of any investigation of its own, as would be required under conference rules. And, to be clear, oral updates from NCAA enforcement staff do not and cannot constitute evidence, nor do we think the NCAA would ever intend for an oral update to be given that meaning or weight.
"The best course of action, the one far more likely to ascertain the facts, is to await the results of the NCAA investigation. But if you refuse to let the NCAA investigative process play out, the Big 10 may not take any action against the University or its players or coaches without commencing its own investigation and offering us the opportunity to provide our position. That is not just required by our conference rules; it is a matter of basic fairness."
Raj has some concerns that the commissioner doesn't actually have to have an investigation, but he's also the one who dug up the actual bylaws, and while the language is vague it seems like interpreting the part where they say the commissioner has the discretion to "pursue, or choose not to pursue" an investigation as "the commissioner can hit you with the ban stick without an investigation" is like the various Michigan lawyers who have gone over the NCAA rules with a fine-tooth comb in an effort to exonerate Connor Stalions as the world's greatest loophole exploiter. IMO, anyway. I am not a lawyer.
It seems like it would be enough to sue with, in any case. Webb has a piece up that interviews a Law-Talkin' Guy about said Ono letter and how it applies:
"You have to show that there's a likelihood the moving party will prevail on the merits. Now, this is the most important thing about what Ono did. In my view (it was) a very smart thing. He said, ‘look, you're not following your own procedures if you act.’ That's really a good hook to argue… that it's a good reason to preserve the status quo in terms of prevailing. Because it's unprecedented.”
Joe Simon, the law-talkin' guy, also brings up the fact that if there is a lawsuit both parties will have to go through discovery. This means everyone gets to ask everyone else for relevant documents and depositions, which will be extremely annoying, time consuming, and costly. And if Michigan's gone through their stuff and is confident the paper trail ends at Stalions, that's all upside for them.
A united front. Sounds like this isn't happening if Schlissel is still around, and that Michigan is unified in their opposition to being handed an in-season punishment for penny-ante crap:
I don't know if there is anything I am more proud of professionally than bringing @SantaJOno to Ann Arbor. #goblue
— Jordan Acker (@JordanAckerMI) November 5, 2023
Michigan on the offensive. The other piece of the story has been bubbling up in obscure references from insiders on Twitter and in pretty-much-as-obscure posts on the paysites. It seems clear that Michigan has some… stuff. They're going to start releasing that stuff. What exactly that stuff is not fully known, but if this guy who runs a reasonably successful independent college football site and just happens to be an OSU guy is aware of who the firm is…
I know exactly who the firm is. I know it isn't day's brother, and I don't know (and feel reasonably confident that none of the Michigan message board reporters know) who they signed an engagement letter with at all.
— Matt Brown (@MattBrownEP) October 29, 2023
…a dollar says Michigan does too. And maybe they have something that would tie that firm back to OSU. As Dan Wetzel points out, none of that would do anything with Michigan's case with the NCAA. It might help with the Big Ten since the sturm und drang from the conference is so extreme and looks set to suspend Harbaugh (or at least attempt to) based on no investigation at all. Live by the vibes, die by the vibes.
I've been as critical of Michigan as anyone.
— Aaron Torres (@Aaron_Torres) November 3, 2023
But the idea 13 ADs get to sit on a call with the commish (and 13 coaches before them) and call for an unprecedented ruling, with no real investigation, without Michigan being allowed to defend themselves?
Absolutely ABSURD
Two other things that have been hinted at: one is that Stalions got hacked and CommitCrimes.docx, amongst other things, were obtained illegally. Two is that Michigan may have evidence that someone taped their practices. Circumstantially, Michigan put up a privacy screen around their outdoor practice facility this summer.
Josh Henschke has another two or three things that he "knows" Michigan has evidence of, and a little bit of it is outside the paywall. Isaiah Hole has also been asserting that Michigan was going to start releasing stuff.
Back to Haller. Repeat after me: Michigan State is the most shameless athletic department in America. There's chutzpah and then there's this:
The most powerful message, according to sources familiar with the call, came from Michigan State athletic director Alan Haller. He mentioned the alterations Michigan State needed to undergo in order to prepare for its Oct. 21 game against Michigan after receiving a call Wednesday of that game week about Michigan having Michigan State's signals.
Haller worried about players potentially getting hurt because Michigan players, in theory, knew where they'd be going on plays.
He also referenced last year, when he said the Big Ten forced Michigan State to suspend numerous players after the tunnel incident in Ann Arbor before the league finished investigating the incident. He pointed out that it was hypocritical that this year, with Michigan under investigation, the league is now waiting for an investigation to unfold.
This last paragraph is a flat-out lie. Michigan State suspended the tunnel players. The Big Ten did not act until a full month after the assault, when they fined MSU 100k and suspended Khary Crump for the first eight games of 2023. That month-long investigation was about eight Michigan State players being filmed ganging up on two Michigan players in full view of multiple cameras.
It is probably true that the Big Ten asked MSU to suspend the players, but they were not forced to. In MSU's case getting the suspensions out of the way for a season that was already a 3-5 debacle in the hopes that 2023 would be better was the logical thing to do in any case; the Big Ten was doing MSU a favor. Michigan can point to this as an example of the procedures the Big Ten followed just last year, and surely the suspension of eight players including starters was much more relevant for the teams on MSU's schedule than the fact that they should just frickin' use wristbands is for the teams on Michigan's.
Etc.: It's frosty out there.
November 6th, 2023 at 5:06 AM ^
A material breach of contract likely exists already in the way the B1G has handled this with Michigan - and is certainly true if punishment gets handed down outside due process rules.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:52 AM ^
This.
A credible threat is enough to shut this $4!+ the F down. It constitutes a $1 billion-per-year self-own by the conference. The conference can't let it happen, period.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:52 PM ^
I fully agree. Damage is done, a league full of cowards, it should be on the table
November 5th, 2023 at 8:38 PM ^
Nope. Everything is on the table and you can't stop the blathering by a weak ass post dude.
We're not dummies and... You're smarter than this!
November 5th, 2023 at 8:57 PM ^
Assuming Michigan lands on its feet. It would be outrageously funny if pressing this bs ended up putting a big dent in tv revenue or even cratered the B1G. Unfortunately OSU would have options ( like joining the SEC where they culturally belong) but teams like MSU would be screwed.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:43 PM ^
Apparently you're not smarter than that.
The B1G needs Michigan way more than Michigan needs the B1G.
If Michigan left, Fox, et al, would sue the B1G and cost the conference millions, if not billions, while Michigan was free to move on to the highest bidder, of which there would be plenty.
It's asinine to not put that on the table while Michigan is being railroaded.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you. And that is what the B1G is doing right now, and has been doing. It's long past time Michigan at least considers leaving.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:32 PM ^
as if it’s as simple as a phone call to another conference commissioner.
I can guarantee you that it is 100% as simple as picking up the phone and calling another conference commissioner. There is not a conference in the NCAA that would not move heaven and earth to bring Michigan aboard.
I’m no lawyer, but I would imagine Michigan would have a pretty strong anti-trust case that would allow Michigan to exit the conference with little to no financial penalties.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:15 PM ^
I can't see Michigan leaving the B1G.
I am all in for the idea of "leaking" the possibility that Michigan would consider or be open to overtures from other conferences, or even the concept of independence. Again, I doubt anything would ever come of it because Michigan/SEC is SUCH an awkward fit, but it'd be fun to watch the squirming.
An incredible compromise would be Michigan and the four new B1G West Coast teams courting Stanford, Cal, even ND... maybe a few others (UNC/Virginia) and creating some new coast-to-coast conference with high academics and numerous Olympic sport programs.
Again, with the caveat I don't think any of this happens, it's fun speculation.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:49 AM ^
I'm pretty skeptical antitrust law would provide the out. If it did, FSU and Clemson would have already used it to leave the ACC. But I do think there would be legal arguments to be made, especially given the Big Ten's complete disregard for due process and the formalities in its own bylaws. Worst case, though, we just have to wait until the end of the TV contract to leave, and that result is still catastrophic for the Big Ten. They need us more than we need them.
November 6th, 2023 at 9:54 AM ^
Correct, antitrust isn't the route. It's a straight contractual issue.
Credible threat is all M needs.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:22 PM ^
Fielding Yost and the other administrators didn't have much of a problem leaving the Western Conference for nine years instead of agreeing to eliminate athletic scholarships or maybe continuing to agree to severely limit the number of games a year teams would play or maybe some other heavy handed conference requirement added at the time. It's not entirely clear which requirement was the deciding factor. Penn became the annual rival. That's the precedent. Going somewhere else nowadays would surely affect a lot of TV revenue, and possibly some contracts with the networks, so the threat this time is powerful.
November 6th, 2023 at 1:29 AM ^
It won’t happen dude. OSU wants Harbaugh gone and the B1G is fulfilling their wishes ! Harbaugh will not be sitting out 2 seasons waiting for the NCAA to decide on a punishment! I will hate the B1G forever if they let OSU get away with this. I will no longer consider OSU a rival. Loosing Harbaugh will likely diminish our football program. Recruiting will be taking a big hit!
November 6th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
I disagree. I think at some point, we have to ask the question of why we continue to do business with Ohio State and Michigan State when they, and to a lesser extent some other teams in the conference, treat us like the spawn of Satan. It goes way beyond the boundaries of a sports rivalry, and I honestly believe that we don't act that way in return. Michigan-Notre Dame is such a better example of what a college football rivalry should be between two like-minded schools. Plus OSU and MSU wouldn't know what to do with themselves if we were off the schedule. Hating us is their entire identity.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:29 PM ^
If you leave the conference, then you allow the bullies to win! I appreciate that the University seems ready to stand up against this nonsense.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:32 PM ^
This isn’t middle school. This is a business move. Winning brings $ to the university. Sabotage of a great season and potential of derailment of an entire staff is taking $ out of the pockets of he university.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:34 PM ^
And take a $30M pay cut? You serious, Clark?
November 5th, 2023 at 8:50 PM ^
Don't know where you got this number from but in business, everything in negotiable. Michigan is in rarefied air that could open up TV contracts and distributions. FFS we could make more money as an independent Eddie.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:26 PM ^
I used to laugh at the arrogant over estimation of importance Texas fans had for their program. Many of these “Michigan should leave the conference” posts sound like Texas fans.
The B1G has the best payout and TV model in college sports. You don’t just walk away from that because you’re mad. That’s cutting off your nose to spite your face.
In a situation like this, use your position as the currently premier program in the conference to get a long term advantage. Push for rule changes which are advantageous to how Michigan runs it’s program which will really hit OSU and any other cheating school where it hurts most, their ability to cheat.
November 6th, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^
You're not wrong re: the money. But that's an argument for a middling team in the conference to make, not one of two cash cows that hold all the leverage. And financially, I think Texas is doing pretty well for themselves with the SEC move.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:10 PM ^
So let me get this straight:
You want to leave the Big Ten because it has no integrity, and your idea is to join the ACC with Clemson, Miami, Florida State, and UNC--who have brazenly broken rules and essentially nothing has happened to them? And who's TV contract share is probably worth about 40% of what you're getting now? Good luck with that.
Or maybe we go to the SEC, a conference well known for its strict adherence to rules and high academic standards, as well as its social and political culture so much like the midwest--a perfect fit for Michigan.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:23 PM ^
Yes, but I don't recall the rest of the ACC going scorched earth on Clemson for kicking their asses. Nor the SEC on Bama for that matter.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:15 PM ^
Fuck everyone in the Big Ten. Ohio State and Michigan State were allowed to be brazen cheaters during the duration of Tressel, Meyer, and Dantonio. Not of a fucking peep from anyone. But this has them in a united front? Fuck'em.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:49 PM ^
Yes, that's the rub. If it was Stanford or Rice behind this, I would look down and shuffle my feet.
But that it is OSU and MSU pushing this is an outrage. They are standing in a pile of manure up to their necks, shouting about how our aftershave stinks.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:46 PM ^
This is exactly why they're a united front.
A common tactic for businesses, organizations, political entities, is to make or create a culture where members do bad things, then, when/if the time comes to break rank, the powers that be have those bad things to hold over your head.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:49 PM ^
Yep, this is why I'm exciting to see Michigan finally grows some balls that I (and most of us) has been obviously waiting for.
November 6th, 2023 at 2:29 PM ^
Thank you. This is what people are not grasping
November 5th, 2023 at 7:16 PM ^
time to open up a can of whoop ass on PSU, Maryland, and OSU. Leave no doubt.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:16 PM ^
I’m beside myself that today’s saywhateverthefuckyouwant with no regard to truth, fact checking, or shame is being perpetrated by OSU MSU and the B10 against this team and harbaugh. I am so glad UM is not laying down for this and hope they continue to fight. I’m just hoping that they don’t keep fighting with one arm tied behind their back or even “left handed”. Let ‘em know you’re a righty too!!
November 6th, 2023 at 11:58 AM ^
So far, Ono seems to be exactly the guy we would hope for in a situation like this. He is smart enough to know this is way more than suspending Harbaugh. That it is a full on assault of the university and he is not going to roll over and take it. Bravo!!
November 5th, 2023 at 7:17 PM ^
This conference has an entire division failing the Brian Ferentz test. The other division has two of the worst P5 teams in America, Rutgers, a Maryland team that just lost to Northwestern, a Penn State team that can't move the ball against anyone with a pulse, and M/OSU. Maybe this conference's problems are not solely due to one low-level Michigan staffer with grandiose ambitions.
This is the biggest issue the conference has. But because they have this TV money coming in -- thanks to UM/OSU/ (maybe) PSU -- these other schools think they have a right to complain. Everybody at Fox should be on Team Michigan since The Game has produced the top rated game the last two years. In fact The Game 2021 outdrew all 2022 games except The Game 2022.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:59 AM ^
Imagine the ratings this year when it comes out that Ohio State did, indeed, hire a PI firm that lead to the NCAA investigation. Ohio State lead the charge to get Harbaugh suspended and oh, by the way, it’s #1 vs #2. Wow!!
November 5th, 2023 at 7:17 PM ^
If we can prove OSU filmed our practice that would be almost as satisfying as winning the natty this year.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:49 PM ^
Fuck that noise.
I want that damn trophy in Schembechler Hall.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:00 PM ^
Can we have both please.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:58 PM ^
No, I'll take the national championship
November 5th, 2023 at 8:34 PM ^
If OSU filmed our practice and shared our signals and Michigan has proof of this and shared it with the Big Ten, than I expect the Commissioner to announce that Ryan Day will also be suspended "indefinitely" until the NCAA can look into the matter, if they are suspending Harbaugh.
The Head Coach is ultimately responsible and no need to wait for an NCAA investigation to start or for all the details to come out, right?
November 5th, 2023 at 7:28 PM ^
I would really love to hear one of these jackasses try to defend the "stolen signs = more injuries" line of thinking. If you have a good running play, maybe I tackle you after an 8 yard gain. If I steal your sign, maybe I tackle you for a two yard loss. How is the injury situation any different? It's the same number of tackles, the same number of blockers and defenders crashing into each other... it's all the same.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:37 PM ^
Someone I know replied to this photo on FB(he is a MSU slappie and those who listen to Detroit sports radio know him) when another person posted this in response to Wallers bs that this "guy has already been suspended"
In other words..their response is going to be along the lines of, well he got suspended so he paid the price, or some sort of bullshit
November 5th, 2023 at 7:51 PM ^
I would like to commission a study of looking at the injuries to offensive players that all of our opponents have suffered over the last three years as compared to the norm across the Big Ten.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:20 AM ^
Didn’t you hear that Wyld Stallyns shared his intel with South Carolina and that resulted in Hendon Hooker tearing his ACL? It’s basically a known fact that knowing plays in advance leads to more injuries. /s
November 5th, 2023 at 9:01 PM ^
How on earth is that only worth 1/2 game suspension?
If your worried about player safety, let's start by discussing this picture.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:04 PM ^
That’s attempted paralysis.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:20 PM ^
The title made me think of this
November 5th, 2023 at 7:35 PM ^
That’s President Ono; he’s here to take you to your deposition…..
November 5th, 2023 at 7:21 PM ^
This has been the most pathetic display of bush league crybaby bullshit I've ever seen in my whole fucking life.
Was it sign-stealing when Hutchinson pantsed every tackle he played against? When Edwards ran wild and OSU couldn't make a run fit to save their lives: sign stealing? Corum dusting NFL draft pick Jack Campbell without getting touched, signs?
Ryan Day, born and raised on 3rd base, talks about how tough his team is but also bitches about sign stealing? Foh.
Never seen a bigger collection of bitch-ass pussies in my life. Fuck em.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:22 PM ^
I am skeptical about the poster’s “source [who] works at the law firm.” It would be a flagrant breach of the attorney-client and work product privileges for anyone at a law firm to make this kind of disclosure. If attorneys were working over the weekend to draft the complaint, motion, and brief seeking a temporary restraining order, there will only be a small number of them, and they would know not to make these kind of disclosures. In general, when you are seeking a TRO, the element of surprise is valuable. It seems unlikely that attorneys planning this kind of filing would share information about their assignment with other people at the firm, except people who had a need to know, and those people would be few and would also understand the need for confidentiality. I doubt that anyone (attorney or otherwise) with accurate information about something like this would go to a football game and start blabbing about it. And if Michigan’s law firm really does have people who are this careless, the firm is not serving Michigan very well.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:42 PM ^
All of these are valid points, but I suspect that the element of surprise is irrelevant in this case…the B1G must know, based upon the tone of Ono’s letter to them, that any attempt at unilateral punishment absent an investigation/“due process” is going to result in legal action/TRO…..
November 5th, 2023 at 7:58 PM ^
You are right that the element of surprise is not a big deal in this kind of case, but you still don’t want to broadcast your intentions since you are asking the court for relief without a hearing where the other side can be heard.
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